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      09-02-2013, 09:13 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by positiveions View Post
Joe, do you track your car? I'm kind of impressed with these numbers.
I'm impressed with Joe's numbers as well, especially Moly & Zinc levels. However, his blend has an SUS Viscosity of 66-73 while TWS averages in the high 80s. I'm not sure about the significance of this difference or the difference in cold viscosity at startup between the two.
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      06-07-2014, 09:55 AM   #68
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Liqui-Moly is supposed to be as good if not better than the Castrol. And I got four 5L jugs of it for $125.00 online. That's like the price of 5L total with castrol and our cars use about 8.5-9 per change..........or is that quarts? anyway definitely a great oil and way way cheaper.
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      06-07-2014, 10:30 AM   #69
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I only ever topped off with Liqui Moly or Total. Both are great but the Liqui Moly is the best to be bought at almost any price. I had NO oil consumption with it and cooler temps. Total ran cooler too but it was consumed.
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      11-08-2014, 03:10 PM   #70
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caused ticking

So, yesterday I went to a local well-known mechanic for an oil change on my 25K-mile 2012 e93 M3.

He had ordered the TWS but it hadn't come in so he asked if I want to try the Liqui-moly.

Long story short; as soon as the new oil went in I noticed a "ticking" from the engine-- another tech that was consulted described it as "morse code" Pretty loud actually-- and mechanic was flummoxed.

I did some searching last night and also had the good fortune (incredible fortune, I'd say!) to run into a different customer at the shop who told me that Liqui-Moly had made his brother's (non-M) car make the exact same noise-- maybe even louder.

Accordingly, we decided to dump the day old oil and put in TWS-- know what? Ticking gone instantly and mechanic agreed engine just instantly sounded better and quieter instantly.

Now I know people swear by the stuff-- and I'm no mechanic myself (even at the most basic level) BUT the mechanic in question will be well-known to many forum folks-- especially those from NY, Martin at MNC performance.

He recorded the sound and captured the day-old oil to send it back to Liqui-moly to see if they have any opinions.

Certainly possible that something is slightly wrong with my engine and, that-- for some reason-- makes it work better with the TWS. No idea. But there's simply no doubt that in my case, Liquid-Moly was a problem and TWS made the engine run much quieter and smoother. Yes, I know this goes against almost everyone else's experience, but Martin at MNC Performance agreed 100%.
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      11-08-2014, 06:28 PM   #71
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I did an oil change with 10W60 Lubro Moly GT1, which I think is the same thing as the Liqui Moly, and noticed no difference compared to TWS. Had it in my 08M3 for close to a year and about 7k miles. Did a preventative maintenance rod bearing change after that and put in Mobil 1 0W40.
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      11-10-2014, 12:59 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
So, yesterday I went to a local well-known mechanic for an oil change on my 25K-mile 2012 e93 M3.

He had ordered the TWS but it hadn't come in so he asked if I want to try the Liqui-moly.

Long story short; as soon as the new oil went in I noticed a "ticking" from the engine-- another tech that was consulted described it as "morse code" Pretty loud actually-- and mechanic was flummoxed.

I did some searching last night and also had the good fortune (incredible fortune, I'd say!) to run into a different customer at the shop who told me that Liqui-Moly had made his brother's (non-M) car make the exact same noise-- maybe even louder.

Accordingly, we decided to dump the day old oil and put in TWS-- know what? Ticking gone instantly and mechanic agreed engine just instantly sounded better and quieter instantly.

Now I know people swear by the stuff-- and I'm no mechanic myself (even at the most basic level) BUT the mechanic in question will be well-known to many forum folks-- especially those from NY, Martin at MNC performance.

He recorded the sound and captured the day-old oil to send it back to Liqui-moly to see if they have any opinions.

Certainly possible that something is slightly wrong with my engine and, that-- for some reason-- makes it work better with the TWS. No idea. But there's simply no doubt that in my case, Liquid-Moly was a problem and TWS made the engine run much quieter and smoother. Yes, I know this goes against almost everyone else's experience, but Martin at MNC Performance agreed 100%.

Funny my brother was at MNC and said he spoke to you re: this issue with the Lubro Moly. He had the silver 525.
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      11-10-2014, 01:12 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s85e90 View Post
Funny my brother was at MNC and said he spoke to you re: this issue with the Lubro Moly. He had the silver 525.
HOLY CRAP!! He was the one that saved the day!! He said to me that (your? I forgot who's BMW he was talking about) car did this-- even louder-- after putting in the same oil! And, he matter-of-factly said "dump that oil out of there and put in TWS-- the problem will go away."

At that point I made the decision to dump the 1-day-old oil and do exactly that-- and the problem instantly disappeared (and Martin agreed my engine just sounded better and quieter overall after the TWS went in.) I'm so, so grateful to your brother for sharing that with me as no one at the shop had ever heard of Liqui Moly causing any such problems.

What a small world! Thanks to both of you and please pass it along to your brother-- he was a godsend!
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      11-10-2014, 05:57 PM   #74
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2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
Liqui Moly 10w-60

TECHNICAL
DATA Basis : Synthetic oil/additives
Viscosity class : 10W-60
ASTM colour : 3.5
Density at 15 C : 0.855 g/cm
Viscosity at 40 C : 155 mm/s
Viscosity at 100 C : 23,8 mm/s
Viscosity index : 185
Flash point : 240 C
Pour point : -30 C
Evaporation loss : 6.9 %


Castrol 10w-60 (TWS)

Typical Characteristics
Name Method Units Castrol EDGE Professional TWS 10W-60
Density @ 15˚C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.853
Viscosity, Kinematic 100˚C ASTM D445 mm/s 22.7
Viscosity, CCS -25˚C (10W) ASTM D5293 mPa.s (cP) 4879
Viscosity, Kinematic 40˚C ASTM D445 mm/s 160
Viscosity Index ASTM D2270 None 173
Pour Point ASTM D97 C -39
Flash Point, PMCC ASTM D93 C >200
Ash, Sulphated ASTM D874 % wt 1.29


Liqui Moly seems thicker by specs.
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      11-10-2014, 06:26 PM   #75
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TWS is thin for a 10w60 oil. That's why it's better to stick to TWS or run a lighter oil. Going thicker doesn't help the engine.
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      11-10-2014, 07:15 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K
TWS is thin for a 10w60 oil. That's why it's better to stick to TWS or run a lighter oil. Going thicker doesn't help the engine.
It's about film strength.
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      11-10-2014, 07:18 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
It's about film strength.
No it's not. If the oil is too thick to flow through the small gaps, it will not lubricate the metal at all. That is the problem with the rod bearings - it is too small for TWS to flow and lubricate well. Adding a heavier oil only makes it worse.
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      11-10-2014, 07:40 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
No it's not. If the oil is too thick to flow through the small gaps, it will not lubricate the metal at all. That is the problem with the rod bearings - it is too small for TWS to flow and lubricate well. Adding a heavier oil only makes it worse.
This. Oil is spec to the car with bearing clearances in mind. The oil must flow through the rigjt passages and be able to lubricate the bearings. Too thick and the motor will lock up.
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      11-10-2014, 08:04 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s85e90 View Post
This. Oil is spec to the car with bearing clearances in mind. The oil must flow through the rigjt passages and be able to lubricate the bearings. Too thick and the motor will lock up.
Since you're the one that (through your brother) saved my ass, a question if you don't mind; the symptom(s) experienced-- have they been discussed here before? When I did my research (this forum/thread-- and others)-- and "research" may be a major overstatement-- I *thought* what I read was pretty universal satisfaction amongst owners that switched to Liqui Moly 10w-60?
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      11-10-2014, 11:31 PM   #80
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I'm using Liqui Moly 10w60 GT1 on my 'NEW' engine during 27000miles.

My 2010 old engine using Redline 10w60 was dead on 18100 mile .
The problem was famous bearing failure.

Then I'm using only Liqui Moly 10w60 GT1 with Liqui Moly MoS2 addative on my 13' new engine after Feb. 2013.
(engine is still stock, no mod. only K&N drop in filter + Akra Evo)

Most of 27000 miles was city driving, but at least 1~2 trackday per month (sometimes almost 100 laps in one day), and in every 3000~3500miles, I changed oil.

I don't have any problem yet.

In my experience, oil temperature rising of Liqui moly 10w60 is slower than TWS,
and very~~~~~much~~~~ slower than Redline, especially in hot summer.
Time for cooling is (slow <=) L/M > TWS > Redline (=>fast)

Oil pressure of L/M is similar with TWS, and higher than redline.

6~7 month ago, engine oil pan was broken slightly and oil was leaked
(because stone on the middle of track hit ㅜ.,ㅜ)
I couldn't find anything like metal pieces or powders when I removed oil pan.

In this oil change, I'll send oil to Blackstone.

Important thing is "my new engine has no problem yet."
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      11-11-2014, 02:00 AM   #81
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if Redline warms and cools faster, then it is transferring heat more effectively yes?
that is a good thing. As a 100% ester based oil I bet it flows no problem. Look at the pour point.
The suggestion that the slightly thicker viscosity at operating and startup temps, and squeezing into bearing passages--- do you guys really think the difference in these oils is the failure point? That is what the 10w rating is about, unless classifications are just all BS.
TWS has failed. M1 will have issues. Anyone tracking and leaving that oil in for street is nuts. Change that oil.
The more accurate statement/suggestion is extended OCIs are the failure point, especially for a race bred engine.
You can't discount film strength! Once that M1 group III water-like low viscosity oil gets in there, it is not a barrier to metal meets metal because it can't hold up to the pressure. If the wear claims are strictly about startup wear and cold temp flow, I say BS.
Ask Clevite what the cause of the majority of bearing failures is from. Foreign matter and debris = Extended OCIs, metal particulate, dirt etc. Go read their technical pages.
Long OCIs in this engine are shear madness!


get it?
If I couldn't get Redline I would go for LiquiMoly. It is the real deal.
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      11-11-2014, 09:31 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
Ask Clevite what the cause of the majority of bearing failures is from. Foreign matter and debris = Extended OCIs, metal particulate, dirt etc. Go read their technical pages.
Long OCIs in this engine are shear madness!


get it?
If I couldn't get Redline I would go for LiquiMoly. It is the real deal.
So you're saying 10w60 Liquid Moly is the best oil to put in our cars?

Kawasaki states in this thread NOT to use Liquid Moly -http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

I would definitely not run the liquid moly because it does not have the cold flow properties as the tws but is equal hot.
I will do my best to answer questions on other oil if someone has some.

From what I have gathered from some other tests is that the mobil is better hot and thicker with higher viscosity index but is still thinner cold. Really better all around. Only question is do we have enough oil pressure to run the 0-40. But, I know a couple guys already running it so I am going to put a gauge in the car. I have asked on a couple occasions for a pressure graph to be posted but no one wants to do it. So I am working on it.

The redline is a really good oil but if going off the premise that the oil is too thick for us non track users then I would not run it.
The redline is thicker cold and hot than the tws oil. -- kawasaki00

I wish we just knew the exact oil to use in these cars, so much hearsay.
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      11-11-2014, 10:49 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maicol76 View Post
Then I'm using only Liqui Moly 10w60 GT1 with Liqui Moly MoS2 addative on my 13' new engine after Feb. 2013.

In my experience, oil temperature rising of Liqui moly 10w60 is slower than TWS,
and very~~~~~much~~~~ slower than Redline, especially in hot summer.
Time for cooling is (slow <=) L/M > TWS > Redline (=>fast)

Oil pressure of L/M is similar with TWS, and higher than redline.
You could save yourself some money and stop using the MoS2, add pack cant be added after the blending process. Once the oil is mixed aything that is added will stay seperated. If you dump a bottle of pure zinc in the oil it never mixes, it just floats around in the bottom of the oil pan.
Liqui moly is the thickest so the temps show that, along with the oil pressure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
if Redline warms and cools faster, then it is transferring heat more effectively yes?
that is a good thing. As a 100% ester based oil I bet it flows no problem. Look at the pour point.
The suggestion that the slightly thicker viscosity at operating and startup temps, and squeezing into bearing passages--- do you guys really think the difference in these oils is the failure point? That is what the 10w rating is about, unless classifications are just all BS.
TWS has failed. M1 will have issues. Anyone tracking and leaving that oil in for street is nuts. Change that oil.
The more accurate statement/suggestion is extended OCIs are the failure point, especially for a race bred engine.
You can't discount film strength! Once that M1 group III water-like low viscosity oil gets in there, it is not a barrier to metal meets metal because it can't hold up to the pressure. If the wear claims are strictly about startup wear and cold temp flow, I say BS.
Ask Clevite what the cause of the majority of bearing failures is from. Foreign matter and debris = Extended OCIs, metal particulate, dirt etc. Go read their technical pages.
Long OCIs in this engine are shear madness!


get it?
If I couldn't get Redline I would go for LiquiMoly. It is the real deal.
The mobil is not a group 3 by the way
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewRifle View Post
So you're saying 10w60 Liquid Moly is the best oil to put in our cars?

Kawasaki states in this thread NOT to use Liquid Moly -http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

I would definitely not run the liquid moly because it does not have the cold flow properties as the tws but is equal hot.
I will do my best to answer questions on other oil if someone has some.

From what I have gathered from some other tests is that the mobil is better hot and thicker with higher viscosity index but is still thinner cold. Really better all around. Only question is do we have enough oil pressure to run the 0-40. But, I know a couple guys already running it so I am going to put a gauge in the car. I have asked on a couple occasions for a pressure graph to be posted but no one wants to do it. So I am working on it.

The redline is a really good oil but if going off the premise that the oil is too thick for us non track users then I would not run it.
The redline is thicker cold and hot than the tws oil. -- kawasaki00

I wish we just knew the exact oil to use in these cars, so much hearsay.
Oil pressure is good on 0-40, I said a week ago I would put up pictures of my gauge but never got around to it. I will do it tonight. I have a video on youtube of the oil pressure gauge at full throttle. Will post a link tonight, our work firewall even blocks a link to a youtube site/video.
W/// ran the liqui moly for a while and switched to 0-40 along with many others. 25k miles on mine with 0-40 and no issues.
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      11-11-2014, 10:56 AM   #84
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Is the US M1 0W-40 a Group IV?
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      11-11-2014, 11:06 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dereksM3 View Post
Is the US M1 0W-40 a Group IV?
IV/V
For a oil to meet current Euro specs it has to be at least a IV
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      11-11-2014, 10:45 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrewRifle View Post
So you're saying 10w60 Liquid Moly is the best oil to put in our cars?

Kawasaki states in this thread NOT to use Liquid Moly -http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

I would definitely not run the liquid moly because it does not have the cold flow properties as the tws but is equal hot.
I will do my best to answer questions on other oil if someone has some.

From what I have gathered from some other tests is that the mobil is better hot and thicker with higher viscosity index but is still thinner cold. Really better all around. Only question is do we have enough oil pressure to run the 0-40. But, I know a couple guys already running it so I am going to put a gauge in the car. I have asked on a couple occasions for a pressure graph to be posted but no one wants to do it. So I am working on it.

The redline is a really good oil but if going off the premise that the oil is too thick for us non track users then I would not run it.
The redline is thicker cold and hot than the tws oil. -- kawasaki00

I wish we just knew the exact oil to use in these cars, so much hearsay.
Here is the picture of my setup with the transducer and the gauges.
Attached Images
  
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      11-11-2014, 10:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
IV/V
For a oil to meet current Euro specs it has to be at least a IV
Really? I read over at BITOG that both Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 and Mobile 0W-40 are both Group 3. Pennzoil I read was switching over the GTL base stocks which are Group 3 and Mobile 1 did the same a few years back. Is this correct?
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      11-11-2014, 11:19 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dereksM3 View Post
Really? I read over at BITOG that both Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40 and Mobile 0W-40 are both Group 3. Pennzoil I read was switching over the GTL base stocks which are Group 3 and Mobile 1 did the same a few years back. Is this correct?
There lies the problem with the oil specs now. The only group that cant be fudged is the group 5. The 3 /4 can be blended so many ways that no one really knows what the true stock is. I will find the paperwork we had on that euro spec and group 4 oils. One company can call a blend a group 3 and another company will call the same oil a group 4
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