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      08-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #1
Estoril Blue
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NJ BMWCCA HPDE On Summit Point Shenandoah - Sept 7-8

The NJ BMWCCA chapter's HPDE is on Summit Point's (WV) Shenandoah circuit on Sept. 7-8 - less than two weeks away! Shenandoah is arguably the most technical track in the U.S. - and NJ runs a circuit set up different from anyone else that I know that runs it - with two extra turns down past the hot pits.

Shenandoah also has a skidpad right in the paddock. As most of you know -skidpad time is hard (and good) to find.


Here is an intro written by the NJ's chapter's Jaime:

"The Shenandoah track is extremely challenging and an absolute blast to drive. If you want to really learn how to drive, this is the venue for you. Shenandoah was designed by Dr. Bill Scott. He was a driver's driver and the fact that he was a Formula Vee World Champion (twice) should clue you in on the fact that this is a technical, momentum course. To those of you that are new to this sport, that means it is tricky to get right. It also means a nimble car can out run a higher powered car. Skill and finesse can more than make up for horsepower. There are several linked turns where you need to do the first correct in order to set up for the next. It is tricky but so rewarding when you do it right. Because of all the tight turns, some are even off cambered and some have a blind apex, you will stretch your skill set and thus come away a MUCH better driver. You will learn to really trail brake to rotate or point your car and you can learn to throttle steer to also help you point the nose. "


A track map:






Registration closes August 30.

Link: http://www.motorsportreg.com/index.c...99F524180179BD

Hope to see you there!

Alan
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      08-28-2013, 08:27 AM   #2
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Track looks good! And yes, can we get some skidpad experience here too?!
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      08-28-2013, 09:25 AM   #3
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Wow, that is a super technical track....I'd love to try to out.
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      08-31-2013, 03:15 PM   #4
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Count me in.
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      09-02-2013, 07:39 PM   #5
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I will be there as well.
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      09-04-2013, 06:04 PM   #6
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Anyone else from NJ/NY going??
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      09-04-2013, 09:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by AWM3ME2 View Post
Anyone else from NJ/NY going??

To help answer your question - remember that you can look at the attendee list on MSR.
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      09-05-2013, 09:19 AM   #8
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I haven't driven it, but I have driven its sisters.

I will be driving it next month. It has a reputation as being a bit too tight for an E92 or other 3500#+ cars. Not undriveable, but cramped. Spec Miata guys seem to just love it. It's so technical that my one acquaintance who tracks bikes is mildly afraid of it.

So, I will be bringing a light car instead.
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      09-09-2013, 06:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrantyTracker View Post
I haven't driven it, but I have driven its sisters.

I will be driving it next month. It has a reputation as being a bit too tight for an E92 or other 3500#+ cars. Not undriveable, but cramped. Spec Miata guys seem to just love it. It's so technical that my one acquaintance who tracks bikes is mildly afraid of it.

So, I will be bringing a light car instead.
That's a negative on that 1, lol. I along with my buddy ripped it up in our E92s. It actually is the most fun I've had on a track. The track is great for trail braking and left foot braking at turns 1 and 2. I can't wait to apply my experience from there onto my next track.
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      09-09-2013, 06:32 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow View Post
That's a negative on that 1, lol. I along with my buddy ripped it up in our E92s. It actually is the most fun I've had on a track. The track is great for trail braking and left foot braking at turns 1 and 2. I can't wait to apply my experience from there onto my next track.

If you PM me your car description, group and # - I'll see if I have pics of you. I was out in 3 groups (mostly) so my pics are limited to Green and a few in Blue.
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      09-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow View Post
That's a negative on that 1, lol. I along with my buddy ripped it up in our E92s. It actually is the most fun I've had on a track. The track is great for trail braking and left foot braking at turns 1 and 2. I can't wait to apply my experience from there onto my next track.
Glad you had a good time. I will make a note to go over there and walk the track when I'm at the Jefferson the end of this month

When you say turns 1 & 2, are you using the same designations as on the map at the beginning of the thread? Isn't the run-in to those turns all of like, 350 feet? I'm not sure I would even shift in that section in my M3, though I would certainly need to upshift to 3rd in my E21. Do you hang in for a super-late apex in the transition between 1 & 2 and then follow the inside edge around 2 for a good set-up on 3 & 4? Or do you double-apex the 1-2 combination, tracking way out after 1?

The reason I ask is, I'm still learning, and I'm curious about different people's approaches to any given track section. I would do the two-apex approach in my E21 so I would have more time after the apex to upshift and settle the car into speed before the next esses, but I might do the late apex in the M3, since I can do the whole combo from the straight to turn 3 in one gear.

Thanks!
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      09-11-2013, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrantyTracker View Post
Glad you had a good time. I will make a note to go over there and walk the track when I'm at the Jefferson the end of this month

When you say turns 1 & 2, are you using the same designations as on the map at the beginning of the thread? Isn't the run-in to those turns all of like, 350 feet? I'm not sure I would even shift in that section in my M3, though I would certainly need to upshift to 3rd in my E21. Do you hang in for a super-late apex in the transition between 1 & 2 and then follow the inside edge around 2 for a good set-up on 3 & 4? Or do you double-apex the 1-2 combination, tracking way out after 1?

The reason I ask is, I'm still learning, and I'm curious about different people's approaches to any given track section. I would do the two-apex approach in my E21 so I would have more time after the apex to upshift and settle the car into speed before the next esses, but I might do the late apex in the M3, since I can do the whole combo from the straight to turn 3 in one gear.

Thanks!
Yes I was referring to track designation turn 1 and turn 2 to left foot brake. You will be in 3rd gear once on turn 1 and turn 2. Side note at turn 21 or 22 if you have good foot control you want to down shift to 2nd so you can have the power to get out of there. 3rd at turn 22 was to slow for me. I am speaking for my E92 M3 drive line. Turn 1 stay wide left and keep your right front tire on the pavement line (you'll see there is this pavement line that if you follow it will set you up for turn 2. At turn 2 late apex and stay to the left to late apex turn 3. After turn 3 stay to the right until you see the turtles. Then consistently make your way left side and accelerate out of there.

In my opinion you only need to double apex turns 6-7 and the cork screw. Definitely trail brake turn 20 if you can and hug the inside. I, along with my good buddy had a blast in our E92 M3s. I would say go in your E92 or bring both of your cars if you can swing it.
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      09-11-2013, 09:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estoril Blue View Post
If you PM me your car description, group and # - I'll see if I have pics of you. I was out in 3 groups (mostly) so my pics are limited to Green and a few in Blue.
You took personal photos or you were the photographer for the event?
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      09-11-2013, 09:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrantyTracker View Post
Glad you had a good time. I will make a note to go over there and walk the track when I'm at the Jefferson the end of this month

When you say turns 1 & 2, are you using the same designations as on the map at the beginning of the thread? Isn't the run-in to those turns all of like, 350 feet? I'm not sure I would even shift in that section in my M3, though I would certainly need to upshift to 3rd in my E21. Do you hang in for a super-late apex in the transition between 1 & 2 and then follow the inside edge around 2 for a good set-up on 3 & 4? Or do you double-apex the 1-2 combination, tracking way out after 1?

The reason I ask is, I'm still learning, and I'm curious about different people's approaches to any given track section. I would do the two-apex approach in my E21 so I would have more time after the apex to upshift and settle the car into speed before the next esses, but I might do the late apex in the M3, since I can do the whole combo from the straight to turn 3 in one gear.

Thanks!
I say go full throttle and don't lift. LOL J/K. Just take your time in learning the course and everything else will fall in place. Then again maybe thats why i was not able to catch up to knolow and get a point by.
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      09-11-2013, 09:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM3ME2 View Post
You took personal photos or you were the photographer for the event?

Personal pics.
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      09-12-2013, 02:26 AM   #16
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I dxpect some in car videos soon!
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      09-12-2013, 08:02 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
I dxpect some in car videos soon!
I actually do have vid but I suck at editing the nonsense parts out like gridding etc
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      09-12-2013, 10:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
I dxpect some in car videos soon!
I actually do have vid but I suck at editing the nonsense parts out like gridding etc
Its ok lets see it!
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      09-13-2013, 09:37 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow View Post
Yes I was referring to track designation turn 1 and turn 2 to left foot brake. You will be in 3rd gear once on turn 1 and turn 2. Side note at turn 21 or 22 if you have good foot control you want to down shift to 2nd so you can have the power to get out of there. 3rd at turn 22 was to slow for me. I am speaking for my E92 M3 drive line. Turn 1 stay wide left and keep your right front tire on the pavement line (you'll see there is this pavement line that if you follow it will set you up for turn 2. At turn 2 late apex and stay to the left to late apex turn 3. After turn 3 stay to the right until you see the turtles. Then consistently make your way left side and accelerate out of there.

In my opinion you only need to double apex turns 6-7 and the cork screw. Definitely trail brake turn 20 if you can and hug the inside. I, along with my good buddy had a blast in our E92 M3s. I would say go in your E92 or bring both of your cars if you can swing it.
Thanks, that makes sense.

In either car, I would downshift to 2nd before turn-in to 21. In the E21 I would probably not get to 3rd before turn 1, but I will have to drive it to see. I get the wide left through turn 1 and a late apex on 2. Staying to the left after that is interesting, as I would be inclined to stay right a bit after the apex to set up to apex turn 3 on the left side. Iíll make a note to try it leftish instead, and see how it works out since I will probably need to shift to 3rd gear in that little break between 2 and 3. I get taking turn 3 late so I can get a run on 4.

I also want to try the double-apex run at it; the E21 weighs 2300 pounds and rotates like a top, so it might give me more time to shift and build speed into turn 3. Weíll see. It takes SO much more RPM management to keep the E21 rolling. With the E92, thereís power across the tach and you donít have to focus on it so much. The very first time I did VIR North in the E92, I was up to 4th gear coming out of the pits, got busy trying to learn the line, and didnít realize until the end of the session that I never changed gears again! The car just whirred along and I never had to point anyone by.
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      09-13-2013, 09:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWM3ME2 View Post
I say go full throttle and don't lift. LOL J/K. Just take your time in learning the course and everything else will fall in place. Then again maybe thats why i was not able to catch up to knolow and get a point by.
Actually, if you "have to drive flat out," a '79 E21 is one way you can actually do it in the beginners class at a BMW CCA HPDE. If you don't keep the motor within 2K of real redline, you're going backwards.
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