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      08-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #23
DLSJ5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Gotta remember that on a race like these, the non-intercooled VT1's will start losing power in the upper gears at the IAT's rise. That's why I was able to tie two of them with my stock turbo bolt on 335.

The dyno only shows you the power it puts down in perfect conditions. Do 15 pulls in a row going from gears 2 through 6 on the dyno and I will put money down that it would drop to something like 75 to 100 RWHP.

They key in races like this is to keep power as constant as possible by preventing IAT's from rising, i.e. intercooler and water/meth injection.
Adam, remember though, the two VT1 non-intercooled cars you ran, one was 6MT, and the other had a boost leak at the throttle body boots at the time of those runs. But a FBO 335I, like your old setup, was no slouch.

FWIW here's a ESS VT3, built motor, vs a MP4-12C, the VT3 was at ~10psi here.

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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
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ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      08-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #24
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^^ I remember this one! Drew, that motor is so dreamy
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      08-06-2013, 03:30 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
Adam, remember though, the two VT1 non-intercooled cars you ran, one was 6MT, and the other had a boost leak at the throttle body boots at the time of those runs. But a FBO 335I, like your old setup, was no slouch.

FWIW here's a ESS VT3, built motor, vs a MP4-12C, the VT3 was at ~10psi here.

Wow you pulled Greg very hard even though it looks like you spun a little on the hit. Insane especially since your car wasn't even running 100%.

Yeah when I ran Roman he said he was down like 25 HP, but then so was I as my meth flow was intermittent. I even posted the log of my run against him way back when showing my meth flow was going on/off/on/off, etc. But the run against PG was solid. No issues on either side.
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      08-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Wow you pulled Greg very hard even though it looks like you spun a little on the hit. Insane especially since your car wasn't even running 100%.

Yeah when I ran Roman he said he was down like 25 HP, but then so was I as my meth flow was intermittent. I even posted the log of my run against him way back when showing my meth flow was going on/off/on/off, etc. But the run against PG was solid. No issues on either side.
Cool deal, correct, PG was the 6MT car. Can't wait for AA4 Brother!
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ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      08-06-2013, 03:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
^^ I remember this one! Drew, that motor is so dreamy
Thanks man!
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08 E92 M3 DCT - Bolt Ons - 60-130MPH 10.71s - 11.88 @ 118MPH - 377WHP
ESS VT2-625 SC 60-130MPH 6.80s - 11.30 @ 129.3 MPH 586WHP / 379WTQ @ 7.2psi - 94 octane / Water meth
ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.44s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690Whp/463Wtq@13.5 psi
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      08-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Gotta remember that on a race like these, the non-intercooled VT1's will start losing power in the upper gears at the IAT's rise. That's why I was able to tie two of them with my stock turbo bolt on 335.

The dyno only shows you the power it puts down in perfect conditions. Do 15 pulls in a row going from gears 2 through 6 on the dyno and I will put money down that it would drop to something like 75 to 100 RWHP.

They key in races like this is to keep power as constant as possible by preventing IAT's from rising, i.e. intercooler and water/meth injection.
Supercharger coolers and factory coolers require airflow. Airflow will affect any cars power that is strapped to a dyno doing back to back runs. You would lose very little whp on back to back runs on the road as aftermarket and factory coolers have access to more air VS a typical dyno. The difference of 20-30 deg AIT on these cars when supercharged makes very little to no difference say maybe 10-15 whp. On the dyno lower intake temps can often be measured in small gains but this is not enough on a 550+ hp car to make a noticeable difference on the road. If you want more reliable power over extended exposure to heat for something like track use you would be better off upgrading the factory cooling like the oil cooler and radiator IMO rather than adding water meth to any system. I would use water meth over upgrading factory coolers only to squeeze a little more power out of the car on a dyno, for short runs or if the fuel quality was poor and the extra octane boost was needed as it would get you about 5-15 whp depending on your ambient temps and fuel quality.

Look at the increase in AIT's on the VT1 tested in this link VS real world performance. You can clearly see that the AIT's increased after several back to back runs with no cooldown and performance was not limited.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=ess+vt1
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      08-09-2013, 01:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Supercharger coolers and factory coolers require airflow. Airflow will affect any cars power that is strapped to a dyno doing back to back runs. You would lose very little whp on back to back runs on the road as aftermarket and factory coolers have access to more air VS a typical dyno. The difference of 20-30 deg AIT on these cars when supercharged makes very little to no difference say maybe 10-15 whp. On the dyno lower intake temps can often be measured in small gains but this is not enough on a 550+ hp car to make a noticeable difference on the road. If you want more reliable power over extended exposure to heat for something like track use you would be better off upgrading the factory cooling like the oil cooler and radiator IMO rather than adding water meth to any system. I would use water meth over upgrading factory coolers only to squeeze a little more power out of the car on a dyno, for short runs or if the fuel quality was poor and the extra octane boost was needed as it would get you about 5-15 whp depending on your ambient temps and fuel quality.

Look at the increase in AIT's on the VT1 tested in this link VS real world performance. You can clearly see that the AIT's increased after several back to back runs with no cooldown and performance was not limited.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=ess+vt1
I was trying to interpolated the data I was getting on my 335 from the tons of data logging and analysis I used to do (i.e. what happens with power/boost for changes in IAT's, coolant, DA's, octane etc etc) and apply that to the S/C M3 platform. Turns out that what I'm finding is that some of those things that I though were "principles" do not carry forward because the M3 ECU and the S/C tune are completely different as compared with the 335 ECU/tune.

This may be why I'm getting terrible results when I tried to add water/meth. Yeah I'm getting cooler IAT's but damn I'm screwing around with octane, air-fuel ratio, etc and it's just not working out because the M3 ECU and ESS tune work differently.

I'm shedding my stubborness on this topic and beginning to understand and see what you are saying here Roman.
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      08-09-2013, 03:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by per View Post
This car was fast , i didnīt have a chanse
That pull...


Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSJ5 View Post
FWIW here's a ESS VT3, built motor, vs a MP4-12C, the VT3 was at ~10psi here.
Now thats more like it...
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      08-10-2013, 11:16 AM   #31
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Didn't realize the MP4 was that fast.. Thing is a beast. Time to search YouTube for MP4 vs Aventador.

Edit: Aventador is faster by a large margin.
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      08-10-2013, 11:25 AM   #32
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Didn't realize the MP4 was that fast.. Thing is a beast. Time to search YouTube for MP4 vs Aventador.
Apparently there was a bone stock one trapping the quarter mile at 134 from what I heard a while back. So yeah insane for a claimed 616 (or whatever they are) bhp.
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      08-10-2013, 03:26 PM   #33
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The sedan M3 is not mine,so i am not shure why he havenīt changedit
I would have to guess with the stock exhaust your down ungodly amounts of power, with an MRF set up youd probably gain 70hp!? and then that car wouldnt have whooped you guys so bad if at all.
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      08-18-2013, 02:00 PM   #34
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I would have to guess with the stock exhaust your down ungodly amounts of power, with an MRF set up youd probably gain 70hp!? and then that car wouldnt have whooped you guys so bad if at all.
Dude....

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      08-19-2013, 09:56 AM   #35
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Drew looks like u pilled 2-3 buses on the MP4 .... With a boost leak no less, that's pretty impressive IMO
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      08-19-2013, 10:15 AM   #36
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it annoys me how hes running stock exhaust. thats something i would change way before adding a blower.
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      08-19-2013, 10:33 AM   #37
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it annoys me how hes running stock exhaust. thats something i would change way before adding a blower.
kind of like a bbk and crap tires, or any one of the other mods that dont seem to follow common sense around here. usually there is a progression of mods and the next one builds on the past ones. not everyone has that vision.
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      08-19-2013, 10:43 AM   #38
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Per isn't running a stock exhaust.
Well than slap me. Guess he does have extra 70 hp
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