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      08-14-2013, 11:53 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by 42 View Post
What no independent thought, just what someone else thinks or says.
Sounds like a canned demagogic smoke screen. And a rather uninspired one at that.

Considering that the primary value of the aforementioned research is that it is based on factual data, I wonder what the above poster means by contraposing the therm "independent" to that approach. Like "independent from facts", perhaps? Delusional? Delirious?

Last edited by AndreyT; 08-15-2013 at 01:28 AM.
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      08-15-2013, 01:52 AM   #354
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The problem is the definition of 'intelligence'.
Local (minute problem solving) verses global (macro comprehension or 'getting' of life)..
Andrey, so Intelligence+religiousity=1 ? (the two are inversely related)
Then are you overestimating intelligence and underestimating 'religiousity', which could otherwise understood as macro comprehension or wisdom.. ?
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      08-15-2013, 11:36 AM   #355
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its hard to comment when we can't access the full meta-analysis. i'd like to see the controls they had in place to take into account environment, socioeconomic factors, etc.
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      08-15-2013, 04:18 PM   #356
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Just because nature has (as far as we can tell) always operated by fixed laws does not mean logic to understand them has always existed.

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log·ic [ lójjik ]
1.theory of reasoning: the branch of philosophy that deals with the theory of deductive and inductive arguments and aims to distinguish good from bad reasoning
2.system or instance of reasoning: any system of, or an instance of, reasoning and inference
3.sensible argument and thought: sensible rational thought and argument rather than ideas that are influenced by emotion or whim
Logic is a process and idea, and doesn't exist outside of a mind, even if everything were still operating by fixed laws of nature.
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      08-16-2013, 02:44 AM   #357
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^
Logic is how we can perceive/comprehend how the world works/the laws of nature.
It exists, and 'logic' is the tool of our conceptual mind that allows us to make sense of the world - to see the law of nature/that things makes sense, as opposed to being random
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      08-19-2013, 12:00 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
Looking at people’s names and locations this forum appears to be filled with very diverse group of people….which I have to say is very refreshing!
Hell there are even two girls here! Who knew!

Anyhow…I grew up in the (SPIT) Islamic (FUCKING) Republic of Iran. I had the great pleasure of being in Iran during the Iran and Iraq war. If you are too young to know what that is look it up. Long story short 1 million people died because some looser spoke to his imaginary friend. As such I have a very bad taste in my mouth when some ignoramus starts talking about the virtues of a theocracy.
Now that said…..I also find it very offensive when people introduce themselves at “Joe Dick and I am a Christian”.
I half feel like saying “I am Shah…self proclaimed ruler of the universe” ….yeah good luck proving me wrong with that one!

Am I the only one offended by this type of introduction or are there others like me?
What do people outside of the US feel about this?
What are your views on Zoroastrianism?
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      09-13-2014, 09:30 AM   #359
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Just browsing, thought I'd revive an old thread...I wouldn't introduce myself as a christian, but Jesus is my best friend and He's certainly the most important in my life. I think we should be able to have respectful debates regarding His true identity, Muslims believe He was just a prophet, JWs believe he was Michael the archangel reincarnated, buddha believes Him to be a great teacher. Jesus never lets you get away with anything other than "I'm God" and His amazing offer of Grace and forgiveness is open to ALL, no matter where you've been or how much you've cursed God...cause He loves you actually.
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      09-13-2014, 04:02 PM   #360
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OP, you wrote: "I half feel like saying 'I am Shah…self proclaimed ruler of the universe' ….yeah good luck proving me wrong with that one!"

It won't be hard to prove you wrong at all.

Of all things one needs to be accepted/proven as the ruler of anything, the single most important thing is a critical mass of subjects who accept him/her as their ruler. I'm fairly certain you are a long way from achieving that critical mass.

The second thing a ruler needs is a viable means -- be it political or militaristic or a combination of the two -- of ensuring that his rule cannot be overthrown. There again, my guess is you are nowhere near having achieved that capability.

So, though you may wake one day and make your proclamation, that will be one situation where you perception is far from everyone else's reality and that means you will be wrong.

All the best.
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      09-14-2014, 03:03 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shah269 View Post
Looking at people’s names and locations this forum appears to be filled with very diverse group of people….which I have to say is very refreshing!
Hell there are even two girls here! Who knew!

Anyhow…I grew up in the (SPIT) Islamic (FUCKING) Republic of Iran. I had the great pleasure of being in Iran during the Iran and Iraq war. If you are too young to know what that is look it up. Long story short 1 million people died because some looser spoke to his imaginary friend. As such I have a very bad taste in my mouth when some ignoramus starts talking about the virtues of a theocracy.
Now that said…..I also find it very offensive when people introduce themselves at “Joe Dick and I am a Christian”.
I half feel like saying “I am Shah…self proclaimed ruler of the universe” ….yeah good luck proving me wrong with that one!

Am I the only one offended by this type of introduction or are there others like me?
What do people outside of the US feel about this?
You seem to be easily offended. This is America, where everyone is entitled to their beliefs, so long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. Some people are vocal about their religious beliefs, some aren't...some people like ketchup on their eggs, some don't. I don't know how long you have lived here, but the sooner you accept the fact that there will be others have different beliefs/opinions from your own, the sooner you will start enjoying life.
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      09-15-2014, 03:30 PM   #362
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Shah 269 I have no idea what your issues are but I would suggest you get counseling. It should be self evident that this site is for issues and comments related to BMW's and nothing to do with religion.
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      09-15-2014, 04:01 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longwood50
Shah 269 I have no idea what your issues are but I would suggest you get counseling. It should be self evident that this site is for issues and comments related to BMW's and nothing to do with religion.
Actually, this thread is in the "Off Topics" forum, under the Politics/Religion forum.
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      09-15-2014, 05:45 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by longwood50 View Post
Shah 269 I have no idea what your issues are but I would suggest you get counseling. It should be self evident that this site is for issues and comments related to BMW's and nothing to do with religion.
it also should be self evident that Shah 269 hasn't posted in this thread for over a year.

Please don't provoke him to come back to this forum.
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      09-23-2014, 04:51 PM   #365
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In the same vein as the OP I REALLLY hate when people call the U.S. a Christian Country. Mainly because it polarizes us when it comes to foreign and domestic policy. Second, It imposes your views on someone else much like Shariah Law the only difference is that you think it's the "right" thing to do. While that is an extreme comparison the principle remains the same of you trying to impose your "morality" on the country that I am also a part of.
When did tolerance become so fucking rare? Being tolerant of others views and having your own. Live by your code I'll live by mine, and as long as you don't shit in my lawn I won't shit on yours. Even if i disagree with something, I don't need to push that belief onto someone else who doesnt. One of my muslim friends said it best when he said that ISIS is like islam's Westborough baptist church, they don't represent our religion or our beliefs, they are extremists.
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      09-23-2014, 09:16 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spieltag View Post
In the same vein as the OP I REALLLY hate when people call the U.S. a Christian Country. Mainly because it polarizes us when it comes to foreign and domestic policy. Second, It imposes your views on someone else much like Shariah Law the only difference is that you think it's the "right" thing to do. While that is an extreme comparison the principle remains the same of you trying to impose your "morality" on the country that I am also a part of.
When did tolerance become so fucking rare? Being tolerant of others views and having your own. Live by your code I'll live by mine, and as long as you don't shit in my lawn I won't shit on yours. Even if i disagree with something, I don't need to push that belief onto someone else who doesnt. One of my muslim friends said it best when he said that ISIS is like islam's Westborough baptist church, they don't represent our religion or our beliefs, they are extremists.
Complains about the lack of tolerance while talking about how you HATE people calling the US a Christian Country.

Why can't you tolerate people who think the US was founded on Christian ideals?

Westborough is a handful of brainwashed cult members. So when the 18 people at Westborough Baptist start beheading gay people on youtube, your muslim buddy can go ahead and compare them to the 70,000,000 muslim extremist who support the ISIS' actions.
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      09-23-2014, 10:21 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Complains about the lack of tolerance while talking about how you HATE people calling the US a Christian Country.

Why can't you tolerate people who think the US was founded on Christian ideals?

Westborough is a handful of brainwashed cult members. So when the 18 people at Westborough Baptist start beheading gay people on youtube, your muslim buddy can go ahead and compare them to the 70,000,000 muslim extremist who support the ISIS' actions.
70,000,000? Did you pull that figure out of your ass? It is no where near that high.
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      09-23-2014, 10:29 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3ray View Post
70,000,000? Did you pull that figure out of your ass? It is no where near that high.
lol sure there are those globally that either the FBI or other local agencies are tracking but it is certainly nowhere near close to the 20k-31.5K currently estimated to be in-country.
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      09-23-2014, 10:38 PM   #369
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70,000,000? Did you pull that figure out of your ass? It is no where near that high.
Well, it's estimated that there are .7 billion to 1.9 billion muslims in the world. And it's been estimated that only 7% are extremist. Using a favorable number of 1 billion muslims, 7% = 70,000,000.

This recent poll even suggest a higher percentage of extremest views. That is of course only if you consider violence against civilians to be extreme.

Quote:

A 2013 Pew Research Center poll asked Muslims around the world whether attacks on civilians were justified. Globally 72% of Muslims said violence against civilians is never justified, and in the US, 81% of Muslims opposed such violence. About 14% of Muslims in the nations surveyed (and 8% of Muslims in the US) said violence against civilians is "often" or "sometimes" justified. An average of 25% of Muslims among the 20 nations surveyed believe suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets is justified at least rarely.[28][29][30] The survey did not include some Muslim nations, such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Yemen, Syria, and Libya, but did include densely populated Muslim countries such as Pakistan, Turkey, Egypt, Nigeria and Indonesia.[31]
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Last edited by Mr Tonka; 09-23-2014 at 10:49 PM.
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      09-23-2014, 10:45 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Well, it's estimated that there are .7 billion to 1.9 billion muslims in the world. And it's been estimated that only 7% are extremist. Using a favorable number 1 billion muslims, 7% = 70,000,000.
+/- variance of 1.2 billion That aside, there is no way close to 10% of Muslims support them

Most Muslims are afraid of ISIS. They kill anyone who doesn't agree with them.

By their definition most Muslims living in the world today would be stoned, beheaded or killed by any number of other creative ways.
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      09-23-2014, 10:52 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by m3ray View Post
+/- variance of 1.2 billion That aside, there is no way close to 10% of Muslims support them

Most Muslims are afraid of ISIS. They kill anyone who doesn't agree with them.

By their definition most Muslims living in the world today would be stoned, beheaded or killed by any number of other creative ways.
Granted, the verbiage i used suggests all extremists support exactly what the ISIS is doing.

What i should have said was that the ISIS is justifying violence against civilians as a means of political leverage. And that at least 7% of muslims believe that violence against civilians is justified.
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      09-23-2014, 10:59 PM   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Granted, the verbiage i used suggests all extremists support exactly what the ISIS is doing.

What i should have said was that the ISIS is justifying violence against civilians as a means of political leverage. And that at least 7% of muslims believe that violence against civilians is justified.
Sorry I whole heartedly disagree with that. Perhaps some Muslims support violence against ruthless dictators like Assad but what does killing civilians have to do with political leverage? Either way trying to assign arbitrary numbers as you have without any real facts is quite dangerous and also misleading.
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      09-23-2014, 11:12 PM   #373
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Sorry I whole heartedly disagree with that. Perhaps some Muslims support violence against ruthless dictators like Assad but what does killing civilians have to do with political leverage? Either way trying to assign arbitrary numbers as you have without any real facts is quite dangerous and also misleading.
That's allowed.

Do you disagree with whole spirit of my statement? The one where no matter how loony Westborough Baptist is that it's 1000x more loony to compare them to ISIS? An organization committing genocide, public executions, etc...

ISIS aren't the only extremist, they do have supporters and they do have sympathizers. Hell, there are British and Australian women who are going to Iraq to act as a comfort jihad. Yes, they are going to be comfort sex for the ISIS fighters.

You may disagree with the number of muslim people who are extremists, but i would wager the actual number is far greater than you may be willing to accept.

You don't call public executions addressed to the President of the United States, telling him what to do, politically, to avoid future executions is an attempt at political leverage?

I didn't assign these numbers and figures.

Quote:
A Pew Research study from 2007 found that over 1 in 4 Muslim adults under the age of 30 in the United States, Great Britain, France, and Spain believe suicide bombing can be justified at least rarely.[25]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...ards_terrorism

The 7% figure came from the book "Who Speaks for Islam" which is a book about the silent majority who aren't extremists.
Quote:
This book is the product of the Gallup World Poll's massive, multiyear research study. As part of this groundbreaking project, Gallup conducted tens of thousands of interviews with residents of more than 35 nations that are predominantly Muslim or have significant Muslim populations.
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Last edited by Mr Tonka; 09-23-2014 at 11:30 PM.
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      09-23-2014, 11:36 PM   #374
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That's allowed.

Do you disagree with whole spirit of my statement? The one where no matter how loony Westborough Baptist is that it's 1000x more loony to compare them to ISIS? An organization committing genocide, public executions, etc...

ISIS aren't the only extremist, they do have supporters and they do have sympathizers. Hell, there are British and Australian women who are going to Iraq to act as a comfort jihad. Yes, they are going to be comfort sex for the ISIS fighters.

You may disagree with the number of muslim people who are extremists, but i would wager the actual number is far greater than you may be willing to accept.

You don't call public executions addressed to the President of the United States, telling him what to do, politically, to avoid future executions is an attempt at political leverage?

I didn't assign these numbers and figures.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_...ards_terrorism
The Baptist comment was silly I agree and yes there are 70+ countries where ISIS are recruting fighters. If anything their actions and calling out the POTUS just shows how irrational this group is. They are prepared to die. As a matter of fact they have a death wish. Publicly killing civilians and directly killing US and British citizens was tantamount to pissing on a bee's nest.

Strategically it makes no sense why they did what they did. But I don't think the U.S. could continue and standby with the threats to our saftey and humantarian violations going on there. Of course there is also Obama trying to rescue his political career as well.

Regarding the stats, I think we will just agree to disagree on that. I don't feel enough data/studies are out there to carefully quantify what percentages of Muslims may support or feel.

There is a bewildering amount of radical groups in that region. Each with their own agenda. Some are even mortal enemies of each other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rian_Civil_War

All this to demonstrates to me that there is no way to accurartely quantify what numbers of Muslims as an entire religion may truely feel or not.

Last edited by m3ray; 09-23-2014 at 11:42 PM.
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