BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
Evolve Automotive
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-05-2013, 06:37 AM   #485
kawasaki00
Captain
 
kawasaki00's Avatar
 
Drives: E92
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Charlotte NC

Posts: 997
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longwong View Post
Only the 0w40 you are using has 600 zddp level which is a third of the mobil 1 R oil which means you have minimal protection at hard temps
Whoever you are I think it is time you go away in the bushes. Once again you have no clue what you are talking about. Here ya go, if you dont know what you are talking about maybe you should shut up.
Bottom of the list.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Electronics Junkie, Engine Builder.
kawasaki00 is online now  
0
      08-05-2013, 07:22 AM   #486
CSBM5
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 M3, 2001 M5, etc
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 446
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longwong View Post
Oil pressure is certainly part of the decision of which oil to run but certainly only one component and the weights are chose for a variety of other reasons including clearences, engine design etc. Many oils and weights offer equal oil pressure given any modern variable oil pump so just because one oil offers the same pressure it does not mean the oil is totally compatible. However you need an oil that runs the same pressure to be compatibile. Those are not the same two things however.

And actually the mobile 0w50 weight is not nearly as relevant even if it sheers to 40 which there is no data on because it has 1600 ZDDP which is the entire point. Lighter oil with much higher anti-friction zddp which is an equally effective barrier from metal-metal contact. Oil weight is another important factor but not the only one. Plus you are using a 0w40 weight so not sure what your point is that it sheers down to a 40 when you are recommending a 40? Only the 0w40 you are using has 600 zddp level which is a third of the mobil 1 R oil which means you have minimal protection at hard temps
This is the most bizarre post in this whole thread (I think). Seriously, you should just delete these posts as they ruin the high level of discourse that is being attempted here with high end engine builders, mechanical engineers with a lot of experience, tribologists, etc. If you do not understand the theory behind a hydrodynamic bearing along with all that goes along with it (and your posts clearly show that to be the case), it would be helpful to the board not to clutter up this thread.
__________________
Current Stable:
2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT, Silverstone, no sunroof, no EDC, but all other options
2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
2006 330i 6MT Red/black, ZSP, Nav, etc.
2001 Audi S4 6MT; 1996 Volvo 850R wagon
CSBM5 is offline  
0
      08-05-2013, 09:16 AM   #487
s62
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: Yellow
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: NJ

Posts: 36
iTrader: (0)

I came across this while perusing a training document for another popular V10 engine (emphasis mine):

Quote:
Oil Circulation

The oil supply in the 5.2L V10 engine is based on
a traditional wet sump concept. The focal point of
development was on significant reduction of the oil flow
rate through tighter bearing tolerances. With a lower flow
rate, the oil remains in the sump longer and is able to
recover from aeration better
.

At an oil temperature of 248F (120C), the flow rate of
58 qts (55 liters) per minute at 7000 RPM is very low for a
10-cylinder engine. This has helped to minimize oil pump
drive power requirements and improve fuel economy.
If you'd like the download link, please pm
s62 is offline   United_States
0
      08-06-2013, 09:18 PM   #488
206_m3
First Lieutenant
 
206_m3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 Space Gray M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle

Posts: 345
iTrader: (1)

Has anyone looked into VAC bearing kit for a better solution to bearing failure
206_m3 is offline   United_States
0
      08-07-2013, 06:10 AM   #489
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada

Posts: 2,299
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 206_m3
Has anyone looked into VAC bearing kit for a better solution to bearing failure
Try going back and reading the thread! That has been covered already
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
BMRLVR is offline   Canada
0
      08-07-2013, 06:59 AM   #490
happos2
Dingleberries
 
Drives: Gray E92 M3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana

Posts: 1,036
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Try going back and reading the thread! That has been covered already
We appreciated your input and knowledge.

To make this thread useful, I wish we would just delete all the bogus stuff Longwong has been stating because there are about 5 useful pages of thread and 18 bickering. Moderators?
happos2 is online now  
0
      08-07-2013, 09:26 AM   #491
kawasaki00
Captain
 
kawasaki00's Avatar
 
Drives: E92
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Charlotte NC

Posts: 997
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Dear lord, I just saw this gem of a post.
Makes me want to stab myself in the eye with a fork.
__________________
Electronics Junkie, Engine Builder.
kawasaki00 is online now  
0
      08-07-2013, 09:31 AM   #492
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 6|Ridge 1:54:61|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 11,607
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Dear lord, I just saw this gem of a post.
i rather liked it.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings & bearings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW race|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
      08-07-2013, 09:34 AM   #493
lsal
We are all Longwong
 
lsal's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Frozen Blue
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cambridge, MA

Posts: 823
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
i rather liked it.
You definitely found your oil guy for the team!!!
lsal is offline  
0
      08-07-2013, 01:11 PM   #494
regular guy
Banned
 
Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

Posts: 1,375
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 206_m3 View Post
Has anyone looked into VAC bearing kit for a better solution to bearing failure
Yes this has been covered. In a nutshell, here's the answer. According to the coating manufacturer, the coated bearings add between 0.0002 - 0.0004 thickness to the surface of the factory bearing. With clearance already too small at 0.001", this means you will reduce your existing bearing clearance by 20-40% just by installing the coated bearings.

If you have stock main/rod journal sizes, the recommendation is to stay away from the coated bearings as this will make the clearance problem worse, not better. However if you have resized your main/rod journal sizes to add additional clearance, then the coated bearings might be very nice.
regular guy is offline  
0
      08-07-2013, 01:30 PM   #495
Longboarder
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

Posts: 3,455
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 e92 M3  [4.93]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.75]
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
A sphincter says what.
uhhh what?





__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / GIAC Stage 2 (9 second file) / Ohlins coils / R888's
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Longboarder is offline  
0
      08-07-2013, 02:07 PM   #496
VCMpower
Banned
 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

Posts: 941
iTrader: (0)

Nice! Some humor to end this exhausted thread.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
uhhh what?





Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
A sphincter says what.
VCMpower is offline   Canada
0
      08-07-2013, 02:51 PM   #497
206_m3
First Lieutenant
 
206_m3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 Space Gray M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle

Posts: 345
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
Yes this has been covered. In a nutshell, here's the answer. According to the coating manufacturer, the coated bearings add between 0.0002 - 0.0004 thickness to the surface of the factory bearing. With clearance already too small at 0.001", this means you will reduce your existing bearing clearance by 20-40% just by installing the coated bearings.

If you have stock main/rod journal sizes, the recommendation is to stay away from the coated bearings as this will make the clearance problem worse, not better. However if you have resized your main/rod journal sizes to add additional clearance, then the coated bearings might be very nice.
interesting.... i didn't know that. I was talking to a vendor on here about super charging the car and indicated that using the VAC bearing kit along with the arp studs and all will help reduce bearing failure, but as you said the thermal coating will get in the way of clearance issues. So is there even a clear cut solution to this?
__________________
206_m3 is offline   United_States
0
      08-07-2013, 02:54 PM   #498
W///
Brigadier General
 
W///'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3/1999 E36 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

Posts: 4,280
iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 206_m3 View Post
interesting.... i didn't know that. I was talking to a vendor on here about super charging the car and indicated that using the VAC bearing kit along with the arp studs and all will help reduce bearing failure, but as you said the thermal coating will get in the way of clearance issues. So is there even a clear cut solution to this?
Again this has been covered already. Can't get bearings that are smaller, so you'd have to get the proper gap. Which is no easy task.

Therefore, for us non-supercharged folks, some of us will run thinner oil to help it a little.

Just go through the thread and ignore everyone apart from BLMVR, Kawasaki and Regular Guy (forgot some other people).
__________________
2008 E92 M3: Sparkling Graphite | Bamboo Beige | 6MT | CF Roof | HRE | Eisenmann | BPM Sport | Swift | Arkym | Mode Carbon | M.Perf
W/// is online now  
0
      08-07-2013, 03:04 PM   #499
206_m3
First Lieutenant
 
206_m3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 Space Gray M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Seattle

Posts: 345
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Again this has been covered already. Can't get bearings that are smaller, so you'd have to get the proper gap. Which is no easy task.

Therefore, for us non-supercharged folks, some of us will run thinner oil to help it a little.

Just go through the thread and ignore everyone apart from BLMVR, Kawasaki and Regular Guy (forgot some other people).
thanks! i have read through most of it but not all of it. I really want to supercharge this car but after reading all these things I have been very scared to.
__________________
206_m3 is offline   United_States
0
      08-07-2013, 03:07 PM   #500
VCMpower
Banned
 
Drives: 2010 Dakar, 2013 Fire Orange
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Victoria B.C.

Posts: 941
iTrader: (0)

No doubt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 206_m3 View Post
thanks! i have read through most of it but not all of it. I really want to supercharge this car but after reading all these things I have been very scared to.
VCMpower is offline   Canada
0
      08-07-2013, 05:42 PM   #501
GIdriver
Major
 
GIdriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 SG/FR E90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time

Posts: 1,338
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
Makes me want to stab myself in the eye with a fork.
__________________
Akrapovic Evolution with Carbon Fiber tips | ESS Akra Evo tune V2 | Dinan Pulley | iND Cosmetic Package (Color Matched Front Grilles/Reflectors/Side Gills) in Space Gray | LUX H8 Angel Eyes

GIdriver is offline   United_States
0
      08-07-2013, 06:12 PM   #502
lsal
We are all Longwong
 
lsal's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Frozen Blue
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cambridge, MA

Posts: 823
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post
As did I, he's definitely keeping me on top of my gif game
You inspire me...
lsal is offline  
0
      08-09-2013, 07:20 PM   #503
CSBM5
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 M3, 2001 M5, etc
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 446
iTrader: (0)

Some interesting articles on bearings:

http://www.precisionenginetech.com/t...g-tech-part-1/

http://www.precisionenginetech.com/t...g-tech-part-2/

http://www.precisionenginetech.com/t...g-tech-part-3/
__________________
Current Stable:
2011.5 M3 sedan 6MT, Silverstone, no sunroof, no EDC, but all other options
2001 M5 LeMans Blue/Silverstone
2006 330i 6MT Red/black, ZSP, Nav, etc.
2001 Audi S4 6MT; 1996 Volvo 850R wagon
CSBM5 is offline  
0
      08-10-2013, 10:26 PM   #504
US///M3
Major
 
Drives: 1973 Jensen Interceptor
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Shanghai, People's Republic of China

Posts: 1,266
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longwong View Post
Oil pressure is certainly part of the decision of which oil to run but certainly only one component and the weights are chose for a variety of other reasons including clearences, engine design etc. Many oils and weights offer equal oil pressure given any modern variable oil pump so just because one oil offers the same pressure it does not mean the oil is totally compatible. However you need an oil that runs the same pressure to be compatibile. Those are not the same two things however.

And actually the mobile 0w50 weight is not nearly as relevant even if it sheers to 40 which there is no data on because it has 1600 ZDDP which is the entire point. Lighter oil with much higher anti-friction zddp which is an equally effective barrier from metal-metal contact. Oil weight is another important factor but not the only one. Plus you are using a 0w40 weight so not sure what your point is that it sheers down to a 40 when you are recommending a 40? Only the 0w40 you are using has 600 zddp level which is a third of the mobil 1 R oil which means you have minimal protection at hard temps
.
Attached Images
 
__________________
BMW R1200RT
All purpose, No pretense.

I'm back.
US///M3 is offline  
0
      08-10-2013, 10:54 PM   #505
OC ///M
Dr. Octagon
 
OC ///M's Avatar
 
Drives: Moonstone e92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: So Cal

Posts: 1,810
iTrader: (0)

Good info there, thanks for posting the links here, CSB.
__________________
OC ///M

2013 E92 M3 Individual
Sold: 2011 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Into a Wall: 2008 E92 M3 SSII | Sold: 2007 E92 335i JB
OC ///M is offline   United_States
0
      08-11-2013, 06:51 AM   #506
GIdriver
Major
 
GIdriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 SG/FR E90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time

Posts: 1,338
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for sharing!
__________________
Akrapovic Evolution with Carbon Fiber tips | ESS Akra Evo tune V2 | Dinan Pulley | iND Cosmetic Package (Color Matched Front Grilles/Reflectors/Side Gills) in Space Gray | LUX H8 Angel Eyes

GIdriver is offline   United_States
0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST