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      07-02-2013, 12:54 AM   #23
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That's some beating. SC M3 is a beast.
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      07-02-2013, 01:02 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by index1489 View Post
Nothing wrong with the 335i I love the car, its just not a M3, own one and you will understand.
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      07-02-2013, 08:08 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
True.

Here's my 2013 M3 with the ESS VT2 S/C making 5.0 psi racing a full bolt-on n54 335 with an e85 fuel-system conversion making 20+psi. So basically this is one of the fastest stock turbo 335's in the world. Let's see how it stacks up to an M3 with 5psi:



Oh, and the beating would be worse if it was a stock M3 vs stock 335.
Apples to oranges. 567 vs 450 HP.

Just like comparing the 335 to the M3 in anything else other than maybe interior is apples to oranges.
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      07-02-2013, 08:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSPowered View Post
Apples to oranges. 567 vs 450 HP.

Just like comparing the 335 to the M3 in anything else other than maybe interior is apples to oranges.
Exactly the point my friend!

People were bringing up modifications including tunes, etc on the 335 and superchargers on the M3.

That's why after the vid I mentioned what would happen if a stock M3 raced a stock 335. I'm sure it would be just as bad if not worse. FWIW my M3 dyno'd stock at 365 RWHP and my baseline dyno with my 2007 335i (bone stock) was 271 RWHP and my 2010 335 (turned off the Procede to stock boost settings) with catless dps and intake was something like 289 RWHP.
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      07-11-2013, 11:21 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by v1k1ng01 View Post
My biggest thing that made me go for a new 335xi over a used M3 was AWD. Simply put, if BMW offered their x-drive train in the M3 I would be driving one now. That said, if it wasn't the AWD that made it a make or break factor for me then it probably would be an M3 for me.
This is the same reason I went with the 335i over an M3.
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      07-21-2013, 02:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1k1ng01 View Post
My biggest thing that made me go for a new 335xi over a used M3 was AWD. Simply put, if BMW offered their x-drive train in the M3 I would be driving one now. That said, if it wasn't the AWD that made it a make or break factor for me then it probably would be an M3 for me.
Not sure if trolling
Or don't understand cars
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      07-22-2013, 02:42 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Goat Rodeo View Post
Not sure if trolling
Or don't understand cars
Go fly a kite... PPL need certain things in cars for different reasons, and I needed a vehicle that could handle adverse weather and poor road conditions but could still haul anus on the German Auto Bahn... I didn't want an Audi, and the 4 Matic sucks... Perhaps you should abstain from making ignorant and pointless comments...

Last edited by v1k1ng01; 07-22-2013 at 04:32 PM.
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      07-23-2013, 12:24 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Exactly the point my friend!

People were bringing up modifications including tunes, etc on the 335 and superchargers on the M3.

That's why after the vid I mentioned what would happen if a stock M3 raced a stock 335. I'm sure it would be just as bad if not worse. FWIW my M3 dyno'd stock at 365 RWHP and my baseline dyno with my 2007 335i (bone stock) was 271 RWHP and my 2010 335 (turned off the Procede to stock boost settings) with catless dps and intake was something like 289 RWHP.
Man I hate saying this but it holds true here. If you had $35k you can get a stock M3 or a 335i and mod it to the point of 475rwhp + and still be under $35k, Im sure this is a big reason why most go with the 335i
If I could afford an M3 AND the charger to go with it no question Id get an M3
But I got a 335i cause for the price its the fastest car you can get in its price range and still have all that luxury.
Not even a stock C6 vette for $25k can hang with a modded 335i

BTW, do you know what your M3 runs in the 1/4? Or atleast its trap?
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      07-23-2013, 12:59 AM   #31
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LOL...

I mean no disrespect by saying this but OP must have never spent a day in an M3... Only after doing that would you know why M3 drivers buy the M3 even when there are (arguably) faster cars or even (arguably) more tunable cars out there.

For me and most of the other drivers of M3 I have spoken to, its more than just the speed. The car evokes so much emotion in all phases of ownership. When its parked it evokes emotion aesthetically. While cruising it offers a ridiculous combo of power and engine/exhaust noise. Need I even explain WOT... Sweeping turns on the highway it really grips the road and hooks into each turn. And for those who track it or AutoX it you know the benefits of how dynamic this car is.

335i is a great car. I considered one when buying my E46... After seat time in a considerably older E46 M3 I realized how silly I was for making that comparison.

Now, I won't be spending my money on a non-M product until they mess up that formula.

Last edited by Jblack4083; 07-23-2013 at 01:09 AM.
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      07-23-2013, 07:43 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1k1ng01 View Post
Go fly a kite... PPL need certain things in cars for different reasons, and I needed a vehicle that could handle adverse weather and poor road conditions but could still haul anus on the German Auto Bahn... I didn't want an Audi, and the 4 Matic sucks... Perhaps you should abstain from making ignorant and pointless comments...
It's not a pointless comment. X-drive is horrible. Putting that under a M3 would sap half of what makes the M3 enjoyable out of the car. Not only that, but the entire concept of the M3 revolves around it being RWD.

I don't understand why anyone buys x-drive cars but I know they sell a lot. M3 is quite manageable on plowed roads with snow tires. If you're going through actual accumulated snow, why would you want to be in a performance car?

So why would you ruin a car, raise the ride height, destroy the handling balance, add weight, to provide zero actual on road benefit? During any condition you would actually BE in a M3 if you're sane, snow tires are sufficient.
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      07-23-2013, 08:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Rodeo View Post
I don't understand why anyone buys x-drive cars but I know they sell a lot. M3 is quite manageable on plowed roads with snow tires. If you're going through actual accumulated snow, why would you want to be in a performance car?
Women. At least that's why I own one. My wife had a 135i before, but got spooked anytime the stability control came on, or if I had DSC off and the car wasn't going straight. xDrive is great for taking the fear factor and fun out of rwd. Pretty much exactly what shouldn't happen to real M cars, as you said.
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      07-23-2013, 10:36 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goat Rodeo View Post
It's not a pointless comment. X-drive is horrible. Putting that under a M3 would sap half of what makes the M3 enjoyable out of the car. Not only that, but the entire concept of the M3 revolves around it being RWD. (1)

I don't understand why anyone buys x-drive cars but I know they sell a lot. M3 is quite manageable on plowed roads with snow tires. If you're going through actual accumulated snow, why would you want to be in a performance car? (2)

So why would you ruin a car, raise the ride height, destroy the handling balance, add weight, to provide zero actual on road benefit? During any condition you would actually BE in a M3 if you're sane, snow tires are sufficient. (3)
(1) Not true... X-Drive is one of the best AWD drivetrains on the market. It's also a brilliant drivetrain that adds to overall performance to the vehicle. I don't doubt that you may lose much of the sideways drifting fun that an M3 presents, but that's only valuable on the track. Normal people don't track their everyday cars. That said, the function of the drivetrain would help it put that power down better, and in the corners dare I say, might make it faster... but I don't want to start that debate, in this thread so no hijacking.

(2) You've obviously never lived in Germany... Snow tires on the M3 might be fine for DC driving but pretty much any RWD car is horrible on snowed German roads... any AWD system with all seasons are better... Also with Autobahn's where you don't have a speed limit why on earth wouldn't you want to own a performance car? With the road conditions off the autobahn owning a performance AWD vehicle in Germany is very enticing.

(3) The higher ride height on x-drive models does make a difference in poor road conditions like snow, rock's, dip's and ice. If these kinds of things are important then this does make a difference, which would seem to go with how x-drive is marketed. That said, I'm betting if you slammed the car on a super low and tight suspension you wouldn't see the characteristics you are describing. I also call total BS on your last sentence... it's a subjective opinion and not everybody lives in DC. I'll also point out that the 335i x-drive does have a faster 0-60 and quarter mile times published then the RWD version.

Last edited by v1k1ng01; 07-23-2013 at 10:44 AM.
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      07-23-2013, 12:24 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted07Duramax View Post
Man I hate saying this but it holds true here. If you had $35k you can get a stock M3 or a 335i and mod it to the point of 475rwhp + and still be under $35k, Im sure this is a big reason why most go with the 335i
If I could afford an M3 AND the charger to go with it no question Id get an M3
But I got a 335i cause for the price its the fastest car you can get in its price range and still have all that luxury.
Not even a stock C6 vette for $25k can hang with a modded 335i

BTW, do you know what your M3 runs in the 1/4? Or atleast its trap?
No doubt the 335 is the best bang-for-your-buck. On my VBox I was doing 0-60mph in 3.5 seconds and 0-100mph in 8.0 seconds (Procede, meth, DCI, dps + LSD and Mich PSS tires). On roll-on acceleration events (40-140mph) I was fairly even with two different ESS VT1 535 S/C M3's.

I've never had the M3 to the drag strip (not my thing) but when my car was just the VT2 625, I was dead even with a Weistec Stg 2 supercharged C63 AMG in a roll-on acceleration from 40-160mph. That same car was trapping consistent 129mph a couple weeks before at Famoso. Since then I've upgraded to the VT2 650 kit and I'm running water/meth. So perhaps in the 129-132mph range conservatively I'd guess.
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      07-23-2013, 01:58 PM   #36
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It's so shallow to think that the only thing you lose with AWD is going sideways.
AWD cars have heavier front end, they understeer and they are not as balanced. Also their steering doesn't feel as direct because of the torque steer.

Why M3 is M3? Because it doesn't understeer, and it has 50%-50% weight distribution. Quiet simple isn't it? AWD is EXACT OPPOSITE of M3.

There are some good AWDs in the market. Like Audi R8, like Porsche. But These cars don't have an engine in front. And they have a completely different character. The only M3 competitor with AWD is Audi RS5. And look at the Audi RS4- S4- S5-RS5 reviews from respected resources like Top Gear or Chris Harris. They constantly complain about the feel of the front end and understeer!

BMW would make WAY MORE MONEY if they go AWD with M cars. I'm in new England, and if I search for an RS4 or RS5 from cars.com I will find one in 10 miles radius, because people are MISTAKINGLY CONVINCED that you can't drive a RWD in New England. I do, on blizzaks, and I didn't even slide once.
I would find an M3 in New Jersey or something, in most cases.

That's why I respect BMW's decision to stick with AWD in M cars VERY MUCH. Although BMW has lost some of his character in the last era I appreciate them for this. I would never-ever buy an M3 with AWD. And I NEVER drive sideways.

If you want AWD, it doesn't make sense to go with flared fenders, carbon fiber roof, etc because you have already screwed up the BMW feel. So anyone who needs AWD should go for an 335i and hopefully this will be the case for a long while.



Quote:
Originally Posted by v1k1ng01 View Post
(1) Not true... X-Drive is one of the best AWD drivetrains on the market. It's also a brilliant drivetrain that adds to overall performance to the vehicle. I don't doubt that you may lose much of the sideways drifting fun that an M3 presents, but that's only valuable on the track. Normal people don't track their everyday cars. That said, the function of the drivetrain would help it put that power down better, and in the corners dare I say, might make it faster... but I don't want to start that debate, in this thread so no hijacking.

(2) You've obviously never lived in Germany... Snow tires on the M3 might be fine for DC driving but pretty much any RWD car is horrible on snowed German roads... any AWD system with all seasons are better... Also with Autobahn's where you don't have a speed limit why on earth wouldn't you want to own a performance car? With the road conditions off the autobahn owning a performance AWD vehicle in Germany is very enticing.

(3) The higher ride height on x-drive models does make a difference in poor road conditions like snow, rock's, dip's and ice. If these kinds of things are important then this does make a difference, which would seem to go with how x-drive is marketed. That said, I'm betting if you slammed the car on a super low and tight suspension you wouldn't see the characteristics you are describing. I also call total BS on your last sentence... it's a subjective opinion and not everybody lives in DC. I'll also point out that the 335i x-drive does have a faster 0-60 and quarter mile times published then the RWD version.
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Last edited by Cortexiphan; 07-23-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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      07-23-2013, 06:36 PM   #37
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Here's one thing I don't get:

Sure, you drive your M3 on blizzaks in the winter. But guess what - the blizzaks 100% kill all performance attributes of your car, including "emotional" steering feel. And I'm not just talking about the WS series either - their LM series is just so ridiculously soft. I know - I ran on them last season. Squealed taking a corner at 30mph.

Having Xdrive allows people in climates that experience a lot of snow to run true performance winter tires that have less snow traction, but much stiffer sidewalls and more grip in the dry. This directly correlates with better steering feel and higher performance.
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