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      09-19-2007, 05:00 PM   #1
swamp2
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As big as a 5 series?

Sure the E92 M3 has grown up and grown, physically. Based on a few gripes I have heard on the board with statements like "it is a big porker, as big as a 5 series" and the like, I decided to evaluate that claim. My conclusion is that the M3 is "closest" to the E28 and E34 M5's. Note these models are from the years 1985-1995! Are the critics whining and making up facts again - yes. Here is the raw data with my highlights to draw attention to the closest matches against the various M5s.

What are the conclusions? Well in length and height the M3 is closest to the oldest E28 M5, in width (which is a plus, not a minus IMO) is it closest to the E39 M5, in weight it comes in lighter than the E34 M5, it is also closest in bounding volume (LXWXH) to the E34 M5.

I threw a few more cars of my choosing in as well.

Again, is the car as big as or bigger than a recent 5 series, NO, period.
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Last edited by swamp2; 09-19-2007 at 09:57 PM.
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      09-19-2007, 05:16 PM   #2
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Interesting stuff, but surely another way to look at this is to see it as clear evidence of the compound effect of the kind of scope creep that we all know is happening across the whole automotive market?

Presumably this cannot go on forever - people will eventually need an HGV licence to drive a Mini...
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      09-19-2007, 05:41 PM   #3
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Where did you get the curb weight specs for the RS4 ?
I remember the curb weight being around 3957lbs.

There was one at 3770lbs that ran the Nring but it was missing rear seats and a few other goodies as well as sporting sport tires, brakes and a roll cage.
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      09-19-2007, 06:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceWain View Post
Swamp
Where did you get the curb weight specs for the RS4 ?
I remember the curb weight being around 3957lbs.

There was one at 3770lbs that ran the Nring but it was missing rear seats and a few other goodies as well as sporting sport tires, brakes and a roll cage.
I was hoping folks would not question the specific validity nor curb vs. EU vs empty vs. US weight details for each stat. The point here was just to specifically refute the "it's a big 5 series porker" type claims.

That being said my specific RS4 figure came from here: http://cars.rte.ie/newcars/index.cfm...ecs=SSCIRL2002
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      09-19-2007, 06:59 PM   #5
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Great stuff...thanks...

The demand for bigger and safer cars spawned the 1 series.

Can you please put an M6 and a 135i into your matrix?
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      09-19-2007, 07:33 PM   #6
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Everything is getting heavier.

I just heard somewhere that 30% of American children are overweight...

My point is that not just fuel economy needs to be looked at in the future, so does weight....
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      09-19-2007, 10:12 PM   #7
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Yeah I would be interested to see where the 135i falls. My guess is that it is about the same size as the E36.

Yeah everything is getting bigger but cars are still not as big and overweight as they were in the US during the 70's....ugh..I hope we never go back to that.

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      09-20-2007, 08:30 AM   #8
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Were there really journalists comparing the E92 to the E39 or E60 in size? Not doubting it, just wondering who said that.

I remember when the E90 came out, people were saying it was comparable in size to the E34, which is basically correct. Of course, its also worlds better than that car too.
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      09-20-2007, 10:39 AM   #9
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Thanks Swamp,
The mass in todays cars did spawn the bloated 1 series. Sadly, the 1 series is a porker as well...3432 lbs. BMW seems incapable of building a relatively light car, even with all of their "exotic" materials. Porsche appears to be the only car company left who can build a fairly light DD, even without the use of exotic materials.
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      09-20-2007, 01:02 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I was hoping folks would not question the specific validity nor curb vs. EU vs empty vs. US weight details for each stat. The point here was just to specifically refute the "it's a big 5 series porker" type claims.

That being said my specific RS4 figure came from here: http://cars.rte.ie/newcars/index.cfm...ecs=SSCIRL2002

No nothing like that, I was seeing if you knew something I was unaware of.
Not trying to hijack but...
There are so many different reports of vehicle weight, (including the M3).
I just want to know actual US curb weight.

Back on topic
I think the new M3 is sized right.
BMW moved the 3series up which to me is a smart move.
Still not as big as the old 5 but bigger then the old 3.
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      09-20-2007, 05:27 PM   #11
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More weight, more power . I bet if the e90 weighed only 3000lbs like my old e36, we sure as hell wouldn't get a 300hp twin turbo engine in it or a 400hp v8.
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      09-20-2007, 05:46 PM   #12
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Weight drop

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More weight, more power . I bet if the e90 weighed only 3000lbs like my old e36, we sure as hell wouldn't get a 300hp twin turbo engine in it or a 400hp v8.
What did you do to yours. Mine is about 3175 and I dropped some airbox and exhaust weight as well. Yours must really be on a diet!
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      09-20-2007, 07:31 PM   #13
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What did you do to yours. Mine is about 3175 and I dropped some airbox and exhaust weight as well. Yours must really be on a diet!
I had the 325i, which I think hoverd between 3000-3100lbs.

All i'm saying is that BMW knew for the longest time that the three series would be getting 300hp engine in the standard model, and 400hp in the M model. With that in mind they had plenty of size/weight to play with in order to match/improve the performance of the e46 and e36. A 3175lb M3 with 414hp would have been overkill- no matter how badly I want one.
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      09-21-2007, 07:05 AM   #14
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Model Weight Volume Density
E28 M5 3229 388 8.322164948
E34 M5 3682 406 9.068965517
E39 M5 3792 438 8.657534247
E60 M5 3869 463 8.35637149
E92 M3 3648 420 8.685714286
E46 M3 3458 388 8.912371134
RS4 3770 416 9.0625
997 S 3131 370 8.462162162
C63AMG 3814 432 8.828703704

The RS4 is the most dense car :-)
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      09-21-2007, 09:30 AM   #15
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So the E46 M3 is actually more dense than the E92 M?
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      09-21-2007, 02:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
So the E46 M3 is actually more dense than the E92 M?
Looks like it since E46M3 is smaller. Also the volume calculated by swamp is really a upper bound. Depending on the passenger cabin shape the volume can decrease and increase the density.
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      09-21-2007, 03:00 PM   #17
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Sort of

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Looks like it since E46M3 is smaller. Also the volume calculated by swamp is really a upper bound. Depending on the passenger cabin shape the volume can decrease and increase the density.
Not really an upper bound nor is it to approximate the interior volume. It is simply the volume of a solid rectangular bounding volume of the car. Just the simplest way to combine L, W and H into one number.
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      09-21-2007, 03:08 PM   #18
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Porsche appears to be the only car company left who can build a fairly light DD, even without the use of exotic materials.
I heard that's because Porsche lies about the weights of their cars, basically.

I was reading a post yesterday on here about the actual weight of P-cars being 300-400 pounds greater than what Porsche claims.
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