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      05-04-2013, 01:08 PM   #67
Radiation Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
A quick look through the thread doesn't bear that out? There are several with 1 or 0 running the TWS. I think we need back to back to back data before you can say for sure there's any causation here, of course there will be correlation as almost everyone uses the TWS, high lead or not. It'd be nice to see a few units that only got RL or another product that's a little lower viscosity from the 1200 mile service on, or even sooner, but we probably won't ever.

I'm definitely not convinced TWS is the right oil for this engine though, especially in regular street use where the oil never gets hotter than 230F or so. The RL 40wt is looking good.
A agree that not all the TWS cars show lead. I'm starting to think the lead may be due to less than regular use of the car. The longer the car sits without being run, more likely to have dry bearings on start-up.

Unofficial poll:
Daily driver - How much lead in your UOA?
Once a weeker - How much lead in your UOA?

My car never sits longer than 12 hours without being run. Zero lead.
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      05-04-2013, 03:08 PM   #68
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I ran Mobil 1 0W40 (a very robust oil) for 3,000 miles, and my Blackstone report came back with 0 lead as well.

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Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
Time to start a flame war.

Has anyone else noticed that almost all of the Castrol TWS 10W-60 UOAs come back showing lead (bearings) in the wear metals? I've had three analyses of Redline and never a detectable level of lead.
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      05-11-2013, 11:42 PM   #69
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Hey guys,
So one of the most important things I have been told with a s/c M3 is to make sure oil changes are done often. An easy and inexpensive way to be able to see how things are running is to get an oil sample analysis done. This was my first oil test but I plan on getting it done a few times a year if I hold onto the car.

Timeline of my car...

10/2010 2k miles: AA Gen 1 Level 2 installed

09/2012 13k miles: Bought the car (3rd owner)

02/2013 22k miles: AA Gen 2 Level 3 installed

I have always had oil changes done every 5-6k miles. The report says 5k miles for this particular sample, but this was a quick estimate at the time it was being sent out. 5,500 miles is more accurate. After looking through my paperwork my last oil change prior to this was when my upgrade went on at 22,300 miles. This oil sample and oil change was done on 04/26 with 27,800 miles. I now have 29,300 miles on the car 2 weeks later. It gets driven a lot as you can see.

Anyway, here's a copy of the report. For those comparing it with others, 5500 is a more accurate figure as mentioned above.

Thanks to AutoCouture in Fair Lawn, NJ for taking care of the oil change and sample test. Excellent service as usual...we all know that by now
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      06-04-2013, 06:14 PM   #70
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seems like all 08s have excess lead...this kind of worries me.
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      06-19-2013, 12:20 PM   #71
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I just mailed a sample in to Blackstone this morning on my 2008 E92 with about 46K miles. I'm seriously considering an ESS kit and want to see how my bearings are wearing before I pull the trigger. Will post it up as soon as I get results.
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      06-25-2013, 08:57 AM   #72
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Just a quick note to folks noticing elevated iron levels and correlating it to crank journal wear....... The S65 uses an iron coating on the piston skirts due to the ALUSIL block, that is most likely the source of iron in many people's samples!
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      06-25-2013, 12:18 PM   #73
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Great info, thanks.

Back to Joe's post, my 02/2008 build daily driver (~50 miles/day) showed lead of 5 for a ~9,000 mile interval. Doing another change this weekend and will update once I get the results.
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      06-26-2013, 02:50 PM   #74
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I just completed my first Blackstone Labs oil analysis, so I thought I'd hop on here and contribute my piece.

Some background: I have 6 road course track days, 2 autocross events, and about 20 dragstrip 1/4 mile passes on the car. Embarrassingly enough, this is the first time since the break-in maintenance that I've changed my oil. It was incredibly easy to do (especially with the DIY section here on M3Post), and I'll definitely be following a shorter interval in the future.
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      06-26-2013, 06:27 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Just a quick note to folks noticing elevated iron levels and correlating it to crank journal wear....... The S65 uses an iron coating on the piston skirts due to the ALUSIL block, that is most likely the source of iron in many people's samples!
Just so that it's clear to everyone:
Lead for rod bearing wear
Iron for crank journal wear

Correct?
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      06-27-2013, 09:58 AM   #76
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Second oil sample.

Looks great!
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      06-27-2013, 08:36 PM   #77
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Its funny to see people changing the Castrol oil earlier than 7500 miles. You are giving up the advantage of this oil by changing it too early. It actually works better as it ages.
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      06-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #78
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Just got my first analysis today. Car is daily driven 20 miles round trip and always in traffic. Couple of redlines but never raced on track or canyon runs since I bought it in October 2011. Car has mostly seen Chevron 91 with a few Shell encounters.

Kinda disappointed with the lead content though...and whats with the moly soooo low! Even the calcium, does not look like the other TWS reports I have seen.

One thing I liked about it was the low silicon and insolubles...looks like the AA green filter is doing its job after a year of never been cleaned and the oil filter can still do its job after a year of service. Really impressed.


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      06-30-2013, 12:20 PM   #79
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Just got my first analysis back yesterday on my 2008 with 47K miles. This car has never been tracked, but I drive it pretty hard. Extremely pleased with this report and the lead count of 0! If this analysis looked good I had planned on ordering a VT2-625 kit from ESS. Unfortunately I sold the car on Friday, which makes seeing this even tougher. I loved the car, just hated the reliability.

In the past 6 months I had both throttle actuators go out, my ICV go out and just in the past 2 weeks I discovered my diff was going out....bad pinion bearing. That was kind of the last straw for me....just felt like I'm pissing my money away on repairs for substandard components. Yeah, it's an 08, but the miles are low, and the differential issue just really left a bad taste in my mouth as the fluid was changed at the appropriate intervals. I can only imagine the future problems I'll be having with this thing if the first year of ownership was any indication. Time to move on to something else, but I'll always have a soft spot for the S65. Such an incredible engine ....at least this M isn't showing any bearing wear!
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      06-30-2013, 07:39 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBB View Post
Just got my first analysis back yesterday on my 2008 with 47K miles. This car has never been tracked, but I drive it pretty hard. Extremely pleased with this report and the lead count of 0! If this analysis looked good I had planned on ordering a VT2-625 kit from ESS. Unfortunately I sold the car on Friday, which makes seeing this even tougher. I loved the car, just hated the reliability.

In the past 6 months I had both throttle actuators go out, my ICV go out and just in the past 2 weeks I discovered my diff was going out....bad pinion bearing. That was kind of the last straw for me....just felt like I'm pissing my money away on repairs for substandard components. Yeah, it's an 08, but the miles are low, and the differential issue just really left a bad taste in my mouth as the fluid was changed at the appropriate intervals. I can only imagine the future problems I'll be having with this thing if the first year of ownership was any indication. Time to move on to something else, but I'll always have a soft spot for the S65. Such an incredible engine ....at least this M isn't showing any bearing wear!
What signs did you get that the transmission was starting to fail?
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      06-30-2013, 11:10 PM   #81
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What signs did you get that the transmission was starting to fail?
It was the diff. I started hearing a low RPM whine on part throttle in gears 5 & 6. It gradually started to get louder and I could also start hearing it in 3rd. Couple days before I traded it in I really started hearing it in 4th at higher RPMS up to 4K or so. Its an odd sound....kind of like a hollow whistling. I got it checked out at two shops (one dealer, one indy) and both gave me the same diagnosis.

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      07-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #82
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About to send in my first sample......besides the standard test, what else should I test for in addition? Thanks.......
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      07-03-2013, 04:22 PM   #83
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I assume you're sending to Blackstone. Ask for TBN (reserve alkalinity). It will cost a little extra, but be worth it if you're running the oil to 7500 mi or more drain intervals.
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      07-03-2013, 04:54 PM   #84
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I assume you're sending to Blackstone. Ask for TBN (reserve alkalinity). It will cost a little extra, but be worth it if you're running the oil to 7500 mi or more drain intervals.
Yes, Blackstone.............noted, thanks!
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      07-03-2013, 06:42 PM   #85
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just got my results back after a good amount of track time on the oil
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      07-03-2013, 06:47 PM   #86
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Its funny to see people changing the Castrol oil earlier than 7500 miles. You are giving up the advantage of this oil by changing it too early. It actually works better as it ages.
explain?
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      07-05-2013, 07:24 PM   #87
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Quote:
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just got my results back after a good amount of track time on the oil
Blankstar43: FWIW I think that's a great report. There is one thing, however, you may want to keep an eye on and that's fuel dilution. It can negatively affect the viscosity or thickness of the oil, and it will also negatively affect the flash point of the oil, making it more likely to vaporize and drop deposits. Your report shows both vis and flash point below the norms for a 6k M3 oil change. Usually when both these metrics are sub-par, fuel dilution may be the culprit.

I know your report shows fuel dilution as nil (<.5%). That's a problem with Blackstone uoa's. They report fuel dilution, but don't really measure it - - they estimate it using a formula that I believe compares the flash point of the virgin oil (if they have it ) and the used oil. My experience is that they can be off. I once submitted a sample from the same drain to a lab that actually uses gas chromatography to test fuel dilution, and a sample from the same drain to Blackstone. Blackstone showed fuel dilution as nil while the other lab (Polaris) showed fuel dilution as almost 2% (what some consider the limit).

It's no big deal, and this is no rant against Blackstone, but if you want to verify fuel dilution, you might use a lab like Polaris that actually measures it.

So if you have high fuel dilution, what can you do about it? Assuming you don't have leaking fuel injectors or some other physical problem with the car (e.g. overly rich mixture), the only other thing you can do is look at how the car is driven. Lots of operation at wide open throttle will add fuel dilution, and frequent cold starts with short trips, and lots of extended idling, will all contribute.

If you want to try an actual measurement of fuel dilution next time, I'd suggest a lab called Oil Analyzers, Inc. They are a private label operation for Polaris. In other words, all the actual lab testing is done by Polaris (ISO accredited for accuracy). Order the kit02 and you will get a test kit that you can send back to OAI (Polaris) by prepaid UPS. So you'll get the results faster than if by US post. You'll also get TBN, oxidation, and nitration included in the uoa report.

http://www.oaitesting.com/index.htm

http://www.polarislabs.com/

Sorry for the bandwidth!
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      07-06-2013, 07:47 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m6pwr View Post
Blankstar43: FWIW I think that's a great report. There is one thing, however, you may want to keep an eye on and that's fuel dilution. It can negatively affect the viscosity or thickness of the oil, and it will also negatively affect the flash point of the oil, making it more likely to vaporize and drop deposits. Your report shows both vis and flash point below the norms for a 6k M3 oil change. Usually when both these metrics are sub-par, fuel dilution may be the culprit.

I know your report shows fuel dilution as nil (<.5%). That's a problem with Blackstone uoa's. They report fuel dilution, but don't really measure it - - they estimate it using a formula that I believe compares the flash point of the virgin oil (if they have it ) and the used oil. My experience is that they can be off. I once submitted a sample from the same drain to a lab that actually uses gas chromatography to test fuel dilution, and a sample from the same drain to Blackstone. Blackstone showed fuel dilution as nil while the other lab (Polaris) showed fuel dilution as almost 2% (what some consider the limit).

It's no big deal, and this is no rant against Blackstone, but if you want to verify fuel dilution, you might use a lab like Polaris that actually measures it.

So if you have high fuel dilution, what can you do about it? Assuming you don't have leaking fuel injectors or some other physical problem with the car (e.g. overly rich mixture), the only other thing you can do is look at how the car is driven. Lots of operation at wide open throttle will add fuel dilution, and frequent cold starts with short trips, and lots of extended idling, will all contribute.

If you want to try an actual measurement of fuel dilution next time, I'd suggest a lab called Oil Analyzers, Inc. They are a private label operation for Polaris. In other words, all the actual lab testing is done by Polaris (ISO accredited for accuracy). Order the kit02 and you will get a test kit that you can send back to OAI (Polaris) by prepaid UPS. So you'll get the results faster than if by US post. You'll also get TBN, oxidation, and nitration included in the uoa report.

http://www.oaitesting.com/index.htm

http://www.polarislabs.com/

Sorry for the bandwidth!
Thanks for the input and suggestion! I'll definitely send my next samples out for the extra testing here in a few thousand more miles.

Forgive my ignorance, but how can I tell if its something physically wrong with the car and are there any serious side effects/damage that can be caused by high fuel dilution? I do drive the car hard once its warmed up and use it for daily driving (so it might see a handful of trips between 5-25 mile each day on avg), but I don't let it idle more than a couple minutes for the cold start to finish.

I had the BMW dealer take this previous sample we are referring to. Could it be a possibility they let the car idle for 5-10 minutes prior to putting it up on a lift to change the oil and this could be the culprit in this case?
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