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      06-26-2013, 11:52 AM   #45
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Get out of here you don't even have an M3 loser how could you know anything, stop telling people to use E85 and blow up their $15k engines it's not like we have punkass 6-cylinders in our M3's (said some hater, somewhere ) There is obviously a ton of headroom in the N54 injectors, DI is pretty cool stuff. I'd read somewhere the lpfp in the 335's has to supply pretty consistent incoming pressure to the HPFP or it'll poo itself, is that true?

Definitely a cool idea (get it!?) I'm going to do some logging of my own and see what the results look like. Unfortunately there is no corn pump convenient on my commute, maybe it is a big enough benefit to overcome my laziness. Forgot how much this car pulls the plug in the midrange in hot weather, and power is always welcome, especially when I'm not willing to start eliminating cats
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      06-26-2013, 12:36 PM   #46
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Quote:
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Get out of here you don't even have an M3 loser how could you know anything, stop telling people to use E85 and blow up their $15k engines it's not like we have punkass 6-cylinders in our M3's (said some hater, somewhere ) There is obviously a ton of headroom in the N54 injectors, DI is pretty cool stuff. I'd read somewhere the lpfp in the 335's has to supply pretty consistent incoming pressure to the HPFP or it'll poo itself, is that true?

Definitely a cool idea (get it!?) I'm going to do some logging of my own and see what the results look like. Unfortunately there is no corn pump convenient on my commute, maybe it is a big enough benefit to overcome my laziness. Forgot how much this car pulls the plug in the midrange in hot weather, and power is always welcome, especially when I'm not willing to start eliminating cats
With reguards to anyone running catless...an e30 to e50 blend reduces the gasoline smells when only the primary cats are deleted (personal experience)

The lpfp has to supply at least 50lbs of pressure to keep the hpfp happy and 70lbs to be "healthy", but the hpfp is pretty adept to compensating for short term pressure drops, but I'm sure at the risk of reliability. Some are experimenting with inline booster pumps as an inexpensive band-aid
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      06-26-2013, 04:45 PM   #47
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I may be going out on a limb, but I feel the car runs better with this E25 blend in 90 degree weather than in 70 degree weather w/ 93 octane. I can drop it into 3rd gear @ 50mph, go WOT, and the car feels like it's riding the proper ignition curve vs. having a flat feeling (ignition retard) when accelerating at WOT.

I'll snag the BT tool tonight to log ignition timing & fuel trim(s) to see if I need to adjust the blend.
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      06-26-2013, 10:56 PM   #48
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Just ran this tonight on my supercharged m3... 3 gallons E85 and topped it off w/ 91. Initial impressions are that it does run a bit stronger. Temps outside were 95*, and the car pulled nicely.
Oil temps rose just slightly above the center line. I was pushing the car and keeping the RPMs around 3500-4500K around 40-50mph while "cooling down" for a couple minutes in-between pulls.
I will perhaps need to pick up this bluetooth tool some of you guys are talking about. Perhaps someone could link me to it. I obviously have a OBD-2 cable, so if there is a better program out there to log, it'd be appreciated to clue me in.

Not very scientific so far, but it's all I have to contribute. I'll gladly post logs once I figure out how to do that.
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      06-27-2013, 01:24 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYZ View Post
Just ran this tonight on my supercharged m3... 3 gallons E85 and topped it off w/ 91. Initial impressions are that it does run a bit stronger. Temps outside were 95*, and the car pulled nicely.
Oil temps rose just slightly above the center line. I was pushing the car and keeping the RPMs around 3500-4500K around 40-50mph while "cooling down" for a couple minutes in-between pulls.
I will perhaps need to pick up this bluetooth tool some of you guys are talking about. Perhaps someone could link me to it. I obviously have a OBD-2 cable, so if there is a better program out there to log, it'd be appreciated to clue me in.

Not very scientific so far, but it's all I have to contribute. I'll gladly post logs once I figure out how to do that.
Do you have a wideband in the car? I have one, but my main concern would be running lean with E85 in the tank. I know its not a full tank, but even a blend with the 625 kit MIGHT max out the injectors/pump. I'm tempted to give this a try and see exactly how she does with 3 gals of corn in the tank. Lemme know how your AFRs read.
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      06-27-2013, 01:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Skooterbrah View Post
Do you have a wideband in the car? I have one, but my main concern would be running lean with E85 in the tank. I know its not a full tank, but even a blend with the 625 kit MIGHT max out the injectors/pump. I'm tempted to give this a try and see exactly how she does with 3 gals of corn in the tank. Lemme know how your AFRs read.
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      06-27-2013, 02:42 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Skooterbrah View Post
Do you have a wideband in the car? I have one, but my main concern would be running lean with E85 in the tank. I know its not a full tank, but even a blend with the 625 kit MIGHT max out the injectors/pump. I'm tempted to give this a try and see exactly how she does with 3 gals of corn in the tank. Lemme know how your AFRs read.
That is a legitimate concern. I have a non-intercooled kit, so I have more headroom than you do before I max out fueling. With an E85 blend, it would be better to run a bit on the richer side as well since E85 has less energy than E10 fuel and the fueling requirements are higher. I would take it slow; add a couple gallons and see what your AFRs are. No sense in going overboard when experimenting. Keep the ratio small to start and you'll be ok. Please do a log before you add any E85 as well.
There are plenty of examples of boosted cars benefiting from running a mild E85 blend on stock tunes, especially in the hotter summer months.
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      06-27-2013, 03:57 PM   #52
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There is no benefit to running more than e25 as that allows the car to pretty much hit the timing. When it is really hot out the IAT gets too hot and the car will not be able to hit its max timing even with unlimited octane as high IAT switches maps to lower targets. So 3 gallons mixed is pretty perfect.

I wouldn't do it with a supercharger as the fuel pump would really stress.

I really would like to see ESS or someone to a e30-e35 tune which our pump easily could handle and than take advantage and hit a few more degrees timing. Although 34 degrees with a tune now may give the maximum power per cycle anyway. Increasing timing does not always lead to more power. The cooling effect could continue to be realized with more e85 I guess.

I think the car is perfect with a tune (like ESS) and running e25. You get a car pulling hard like it should hot or cold. The car would bog so much in heat before this was not enjoyable driving it.
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      06-27-2013, 04:28 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Longwong View Post
I wouldn't do it with a supercharger as the fuel pump would really stress.

I rt.
I think it's going to be close to maxing it out on a 625 kit, but without logging, it's just guessing. 650 kit pretty much maxes out the stock fuel pump as we've seen logs of FP dropping/AFR running lean after 7K on these kits.
Again, it's a 15% increase in ethanol concentration we're talking here; it's not a massive change that'll command a massive increase in duty cycle.
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      06-27-2013, 11:44 PM   #54
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Gosh I would not do it (nor did I) without logging with my BT tool carefully. I felt fine however when the logs looked identical in terms of A/F ratio and every other paremeter as running straight 91 other than timing targets were hit more consistently. BT tool logs don't lie so I was convinced of the safety. The car runs a wideband 02 sensor all the time. All you need is a BT tool to log and monitor the wideband that is built into the car. I again would not do it on a supercharger because you are really stressing the fuel pump. Maybe the very lowest supercharger but even then its already a strain. In NA applications the pump has so much reserve and watching fuel trims it is actually barely pumping out more fuel to really be negligible to straining the pump
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      07-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #55
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Your results seem interesting in the context of prior threads, where some users ran E85 mixtures:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...6#post12925306

Think some of the users were banned for whatever reason (doesnt' seem related to the thread), but those users experiences, the warning in the manual not to use E85 in the M3, tuners recommending to stay away, and volatility and water retention properties of ethanol just down right scare me in terms of long-term damage potential. I'd love to try it out, but using pump racing gas mixture instead, while alot more expensive seems, to be the more conservative to get the additional HP (but no real cooling benefits compared to ethanol).
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      07-05-2013, 12:23 PM   #56
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It's possible that the user Munit was having issues for other reasons.

I'm on my second tank with an E85 mixture and I'm not experiencing any issues like he's describing.

My plugs are only a couple thousand miles old, and I have larger injectors since I have the VF540 kit installed.

There is no reason our cars cannot supply the required fuel for a E25 mixture. That mixture is very different from running straight E85.
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      07-06-2013, 08:19 AM   #57
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The issue that I've ran into is an initial rough idle during cold starts, but it smooths out in 5 seconds. The car runs noticeably smoother and stronger with the E25 blend, and it may be my imagination, but it sounds like my stock exhaust is more noticeable inside the cabin too (probably due to being able to hit the max timing tables).
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      07-06-2013, 06:03 PM   #58
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I have been running this for a little while and runs great. I recommend from reading some of the 335i threads that you run a couple tanks of non-ethanol gas every 5 ethanol tanks you use in addition to a special ethanol cleaner-like techron type of stuff they sell for e85 users to get rid of any residual moisture or something in the system.

But car runs really great with it.
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      07-07-2013, 10:37 PM   #59
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ok so it may add power, etc...but why do you ppl run e85 if the manual specifically says on p195:

"Do not fill the tank with E85, i.e. fuel containing 85% ethanol, nor FlexFuel. Otherwise the engine and fuel supply system will be damaged."

i already know your counterarguments will be that "it means you shouldn't run a full tank of e85, but a couple gallons won't hurt"...but still, thats not a valid counter argument
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      07-08-2013, 11:58 AM   #60
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Because pure e85 will ruin the motor lol. Plus the engine is not emissions tested for a mix of e85 and many other reasons why bmw is not going to state (car will be fine on mixes of e25 or below). Also why they don't comment on race fuel.

The engine and fuel system cannot handle probably e40 or higher for any length of time. E25 you are still pushing your fuel system to work harder and that alone is a reason bmw would not say run this. Your average person does not understand or is able to log his afr, timing and parameters to ensure your ECU is compensating properly by adjusting fuel trims appropriately etc.

Like any performance item it takes some understanding to do it properly and if you understand the way an EDU works, how fuel trims compensate for ethanol and how to monitor proper parameters than it is totally benign. The fuel lines etc in all modern cars frankly are made to tolerate ethanol as ethanol is in all our gas and different countries have even more ethanol than we do.

Don't do it if you are not comfortable but e25 or about 3 gallons a tank has noticeable benefit with the parameters are monitored and running perfectly. I am willing to accept a fuel pump and injectors that may go out 25 percent earlier and its an acceptable risk to me. Aside from that if done properly and monitored there is no risk to an engine.

Its another story if a guy just dumps e85 and blasts out of the station at WOT and the car runs so lean that the engine explodes. Most guys who do this know they drive for a little while first, make sure the ecu has time to adjust fueling. The idle will go crazy a bit at first and that is the ECU adjusting fuel trims to meet AFR goals with the no fuel mix and once all settles out and one monitors atleast once to ensure the car is healthy enough to make these compensations than they let loose. The average joe is not going to understand all this.
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      07-08-2013, 12:09 PM   #61
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Quote:
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Because pure e85 will ruin the motor lol. Plus the engine is not emissions tested for a mix of e85 and many other reasons why bmw is not going to state (car will be fine on mixes of e25 or below). Also why they don't comment on race fuel.

The engine and fuel system cannot handle probably e40 or higher for any length of time. E25 you are still pushing your fuel system to work harder and that alone is a reason bmw would not say run this. Your average person does not understand or is able to log his afr, timing and parameters to ensure your ECU is compensating properly by adjusting fuel trims appropriately etc.

Like any performance item it takes some understanding to do it properly and if you understand the way an EDU works, how fuel trims compensate for ethanol and how to monitor proper parameters than it is totally benign. The fuel lines etc in all modern cars frankly are made to tolerate ethanol as ethanol is in all our gas and different countries have even more ethanol than we do.

Don't do it if you are not comfortable but e25 or about 3 gallons a tank has noticeable benefit with the parameters are monitored and running perfectly. I am willing to accept a fuel pump and injectors that may go out 25 percent earlier and its an acceptable risk to me. Aside from that if done properly and monitored there is no risk to an engine.

Its another story if a guy just dumps e85 and blasts out of the station at WOT and the car runs so lean that the engine explodes. Most guys who do this know they drive for a little while first, make sure the ecu has time to adjust fueling. The idle will go crazy a bit at first and that is the ECU adjusting fuel trims to meet AFR goals with the no fuel mix and once all settles out and one monitors atleast once to ensure the car is healthy enough to make these compensations than they let loose. The average joe is not going to understand all this.
Well said, the stock fuel lines can handle full E85, not sure about the stock fuel filter though, the OEM M3 pump I'm not sure, but a mixture of E40 I think it can. The stock pump is good for 600whp on 93+ octane, so there's lots of room their for E25 if you are NA, as you and others have stated here. The 335I actually shares the same type of lines in the tank, same fuel filter, and those guys have been running it for quite some time with no issues that I know of, and they mix 50/50+ and some do full E85 on the stock pump, but at the same time I understand the hesitation for some who aren't 100% sold yet.
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      07-13-2013, 02:20 AM   #62
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Put in 2 gallons of e85 mixed with approx 14 gallons of 91 and I definitely noticed a difference. The car pulls a lot harder, put a smile on my face
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      07-13-2013, 10:19 AM   #63
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Its night and day, atleast in the heat and humidity as of late. I ran a tank of pure 91 to clean the system out every week or two and man the car felt like it was choking. Went back to e30 and the car was alive and jumping to accelerate. In cooler temps it probably is not a huge difference but in summer its huge
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      07-13-2013, 03:53 PM   #64
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Yes definitely night and day difference. Tuners need to make a tune for straight e85. Yes of course larger inj will b required, but man this fuel is amazing for the price.
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      07-14-2013, 11:03 AM   #65
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I'm now running 4 gallons, and this thing pulls like it's the middle of winter (60 degrees) and then some.
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      07-14-2013, 11:12 AM   #66
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Glad I could offer some confidence for more to enjoy it!

Anyone thinking about it. Please after you fill up, wait until you drive for a few minutes and atleast come to a couple idle stops and let your idle bounce and adapt to the e85. Otherwise if you peel out of the gas station full throttle you will be running way lean and really risk damage. So use some common sense! The computer is fast but does not happen instantly! (adapts AFR which then pumps adequate e85 to account for needing more e85 to keep afr happy and thus engine happy
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