BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-19-2012, 03:30 PM   #1
808@702
7th BMW, 500th Surfboard
808@702's Avatar
68
Rep
1,079
Posts

 
Drives: My girlfriends crazy!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Las Vegas, Nv. and Honolulu, Hi.

iTrader: (0)

Car and Driver article (Camaro beats M6)

In price, HP and torque. In price duh, but HP and torque???
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2012, 04:03 PM   #2
skinrock
Agent Smith
skinrock's Avatar
46
Rep
2,860
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 Fusion AWD
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Matrix

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2007 335i  [3.45]
The ZL1 makes 580hp and 556tq...
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2012, 04:11 PM   #3
txz4
Major
txz4's Avatar
18
Rep
1,098
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

iTrader: (3)

the m6 was faster in the 1/4 mile and to 60 i think
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #4
ragingclue
One cam is enough
ragingclue's Avatar
87
Rep
6,815
Posts

 
Drives: VF
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: mulletville

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
The ZL1 makes 580hp and 556tq...
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
the m6 was faster in the 1/4 mile and to 60 i think
The ZL-1 has shown to be underwhelming in a straight line thus far, considering the power numbers.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 04:00 PM   #5
URBAN LEGEND
Champ
URBAN LEGEND's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
2,116
Posts

 
Drives: '13 M5, '13 ZL1
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Anyone in Houston with a stock DCT M6/M5? I just bought the 13 ZL1 and I truly believe its not quicker from 70 to 140ish. I don't feel the M5 twin turbo hit.


I'm up for testing.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 05:09 PM   #6
yousefnjr
Captain
10
Rep
625
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
the m6 was faster in the 1/4 mile and to 60 i think
At their lightning lap 2013, the ZL1 absolutely demolished the M6 around VIR, 2:57 to the m6's 3:04... 7 seconds! Yikes
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 05:13 PM   #7
URBAN LEGEND
Champ
URBAN LEGEND's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
2,116
Posts

 
Drives: '13 M5, '13 ZL1
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
At their lightning lap 2013, the ZL1 absolutely demolished the M6 around VIR, 2:57 to the m6's 3:04... 7 seconds! Yikes
I can't see it in a straight line. We need testing.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 09:35 PM   #8
buildbright
Captain
buildbright's Avatar
9
Rep
907
Posts

 
Drives: 335i BMW F30 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
At their lightning lap 2013, the ZL1 absolutely demolished the M6 around VIR, 2:57 to the m6's 3:04... 7 seconds! Yikes
Lightning laps are a bad measurement. The drivers are not professional and the laps are not consistent. They did almost the same time as the ZL1 as the 1LE SS. Also different tracks play on cars different strengths. Both cars are difference is the ZL1 is a track car. The M6 is a luxury car that you can take to the track.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 10:34 PM   #9
yousefnjr
Captain
10
Rep
625
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
Lightning laps are a bad measurement. The drivers are not professional and the laps are not consistent. They did almost the same time as the ZL1 as the 1LE SS. Also different tracks play on cars different strengths. Both cars are difference is the ZL1 is a track car. The M6 is a luxury car that you can take to the track.
Why are lightning laps a bad measurement? While ill agree that the cars are driven by journalists, its not like these guys are off the street and each car is driven multiple times. The SS did not do the same time as the ZL1, it was 4 seconds behind at 3:01 (which is also faster than the M6). VIR is far from the tightest, most technical track out there with at least 3 long straights. Of course the cars are different, but that isn't any excuse for a lap time. You can't say a Rolls Royce would be flying around here if they focused on speed instead of luxury, same goes for the M6. Lap times are lap times.

I like BMW just as much as the next guy, but you said it yourself; they're luxury cars, and a performance like this is what happens when you're 4000+ lbs.
Appreciate 0
      06-18-2013, 11:39 PM   #10
buildbright
Captain
buildbright's Avatar
9
Rep
907
Posts

 
Drives: 335i BMW F30 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
Why are lightning laps a bad measurement? While ill agree that the cars are driven by journalists, its not like these guys are off the street and each car is driven multiple times. The SS did not do the same time as the ZL1, it was 4 seconds behind at 3:01 (which is also faster than the M6). VIR is far from the tightest, most technical track out there with at least 3 long straights. Of course the cars are different, but that isn't any excuse for a lap time. You can't say a Rolls Royce would be flying around here if they focused on speed instead of luxury, same goes for the M6. Lap times are lap times.

I like BMW just as much as the next guy, but you said it yourself; they're luxury cars, and a performance like this is what happens when you're 4000+ lbs.
Lap times are not lap times. A car that excels on a long straight away track can be horrible on a tighter shorter track.

1. They use a bunch of different non-professional drivers, which equals inconsistency.

2. All the cars have different tire brands and sizes. This is just the beginning but there are just to many variables in the tests. You need control or the numbers are meaningless.

Yes the SS was slower but they even said they messed up on their best lap and needed better tires and it would neck and neck with the ZL1. This shows maybe the drivers can't handle that chassis more power. When you race you build a driving style. Some people are better with high momentum driving. Some are better with low momentum high powered cars. To be honest I recommend doing some track events and learning the craft.

If you ever raced the Nurburgring you learn real quick that magazine numbers are just that numbers. I am not saying this to defend the M6 or BMW I am saying this because people read magazines and take their numbers as gospel.
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2013, 07:59 AM   #11
yousefnjr
Captain
10
Rep
625
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

M6 may be faster around an oval or the drag strip, but I wouldn't bet money on it anywhere else. Tire choice isn't up to the journalists, the OEM is responsible for that.

To your point about the experience of the drivers, which car do you think would benefit more from a pro? The manual ZL1 or the paddle-shift M6?
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2013, 11:02 AM   #12
yousefnjr
Captain
10
Rep
625
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-times-page-8

If you can read English, it's easy to see that these lightning lap tests aren't quite as amateur as you're making them out to be. The data collected by sector are very telling of what's going on and just how quick the ZL1 is. It's in the top 3 in nearly all sectors, second in some only to the Ferrari.

If you still think this test isn't fair because the rookie drivers "can't handle the power," ask yourself why they got such a good time out of the 458.

Last edited by yousefnjr; 06-19-2013 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Quote fixed
Appreciate 0
      06-19-2013, 11:11 PM   #13
buildbright
Captain
buildbright's Avatar
9
Rep
907
Posts

 
Drives: 335i BMW F30 Sedan
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-times-page-8

If you can read English, it's easy to see that these lightning lap tests aren't quite as amateur as you're making them out to be. The data collected by sector are very telling of what's going on and just how quick the ZL1 is. It's in the top 3 in nearly all sectors, second in some only to the Ferrari.

If you still think this test isn't fair because the rookie drivers "can't handle the power," ask yourself why they got such a good time out of the 458.
Insulting people makes you look unintelligent. I have no time to explain racing dynamics to you. Spend some time on a race track and less time reading magazines.
Appreciate 0
      06-20-2013, 08:06 AM   #14
yousefnjr
Captain
10
Rep
625
Posts

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

If your idea of racing dynamics tells you the heavier, less powerful, more comfortable car should be faster, I'm glad you're keeping that to yourself.
Appreciate 0
      06-21-2013, 06:06 PM   #15
Ammonia
Captain
Ammonia's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
738
Posts

 
Drives: n54 135i
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Fayetteville, NC

iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by yousefnjr View Post
If your idea of racing dynamics tells you the heavier, less powerful, more comfortable car should be faster, I'm glad you're keeping that to yourself.
ZING
__________________

Mods: JB4 | Berk Race Axel-Back | VSRF DPs | BMS DCI | CM Meth + CMGS Controller | Stett CP | Tial BOV | RR Scoops | BMS LED AE | Matte Grills | 10% Tint | M Pedals | Blackline LCI | CSR Eyelids | Amber Overlays | Rear OEM Flaps | Seibon GTR Hood | Painted Spoiler | H-Style Front Lip | VMR V701s
Appreciate 0
      06-21-2013, 06:13 PM   #16
keepittrill
Banned
keepittrill's Avatar
United_States
15
Rep
573
Posts

 
Drives: "Daddy-bought" 2010 Z4
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona

iTrader: (0)

I've talked a lot of crap about American cars in the past but WOW. Remember that part in the hobbit where Thorin goes "never have I been so wrong"? That's me recently. LOL
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2013, 12:11 PM   #17
Desert_Fox
Drop-Top Turbo
Desert_Fox's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
471
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 335is E93
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Send a message via MSN to Desert_Fox Send a message via Skype™ to Desert_Fox
The Camaro is a very, very nice car. I almost bought an SS instead of ordering another 3 series. It was a 51/49 decision honestly, my loyalty to the brand and my great service advisor kept me back at BMW. Tell me another new car for 38k with good handling, speed, and practicality/usability (Besides the Mustang).
__________________
Current 2013 BMW 335is E93 [Mineral White] [Coral Red] DCT, Premium Pkg, Convenience Pkg, Nav, Heated Seats, HK, BMW Apps
Current 2003 BMW 540i E39 [Sterling Gray] [Montana Grey] 6MT, Premium Pkg, M-Sport Pkg
Appreciate 0
      06-27-2013, 12:31 PM   #18
Colt
Spoolin' & droolin'
Colt's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
1,215
Posts

 
Drives: 08 135i 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Fox View Post
The Camaro is a very, very nice car. I almost bought an SS instead of ordering another 3 series.
They should of made it look more like the older Camaro though, I just can't get into them that much...(at least to the point of me buying one)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate4641 View Post
looks like unicorn vomit.
For Sale: 08 135i SR 6MT, PTF Tuned
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST