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      06-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #1277
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2008 BMW M3 E90  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by reborn
I went to see an E90 M3 today and the dealer was asking for $54,000. It's a 2011 with 28,000 miles. Options are Premium, Tech, DCT, EDC, 19's, ipod, and Sunroof. Do you think that is a fair price?

Thanks in advance for the help.
2009s were going for about that much in 2011 with similar specs and miles. You can probably get them down a bit more.
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      06-18-2013, 04:37 PM   #1278
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45,500 including TTL + 5 year 75,000 Platinum warranty (wear and tear included, no maintenance)

2008 Jerez Black E93 M3 25,333 Loaded except for DCT. 80k sticker.
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      06-19-2013, 10:40 PM   #1279
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Originally Posted by immamac
45,500 including TTL + 5 year 75,000 Platinum warranty (wear and tear included, no maintenance)

2008 Jerez Black E93 M3 25,333 Loaded except for DCT. 80k sticker.
Nice!
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      06-19-2013, 11:57 PM   #1280
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Im looking at 2x 2011 coupes. One is a private sale and the other is from a dealer.

1) 2011 BMW e92 M3 coupe Alpine White ZCP Fox Red Interior Carbon Fiber Roof 6 Speed Manual Transmission 25k Miles asking 53k

2) 2011 BMW e92 M3 coupe similarly spec'd CPO'd 35,447 Miles asking $56,995

~50k seems to be the ballpark price for used 2010/11. Does CPO'd add that much value to a vehicle? I don't know how you guys are getting all these smoking deals!
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      06-20-2013, 01:43 PM   #1281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomieg View Post
Im looking at 2x 2011 coupes. One is a private sale and the other is from a dealer.

1) 2011 BMW e92 M3 coupe Alpine White ZCP Fox Red Interior Carbon Fiber Roof 6 Speed Manual Transmission 25k Miles asking 53k

2) 2011 BMW e92 M3 coupe similarly spec'd CPO'd 35,447 Miles asking $56,995

~50k seems to be the ballpark price for used 2010/11. Does CPO'd add that much value to a vehicle? I don't know how you guys are getting all these smoking deals!
cpo adds about $3k or so to the value depending on the term of the remaining life of warranty. Ask the dealer for an in-warranty extended warranty quote (make sure term and coverage is comparable to CPO terms and coverage), also ask them what their invoice price is on that quote and that'll give you a good idea how much it costs them to CPO a car.
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      06-20-2013, 01:44 PM   #1282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snig View Post
Nice!
i think he could have gotten about $1k less, but that's alot of value on that CPO though, so this puts my 08 in the neigborhood of $40k-$41k right now, as I have comparable miles (but no CPO)
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      06-23-2013, 03:23 PM   #1283
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2008 coupe
price: 44k
miles: 7k
fully loaded
dct
carbon roof
carbon trim
oem 19s

good deal?
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      06-23-2013, 03:34 PM   #1284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroit M3 View Post
2008 coupe
price: 44k
miles: 7k
fully loaded
dct
carbon roof
carbon trim
oem 19s

good deal?
yeah, i paid that for mine with 8k miles; 6 speed though
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      07-03-2013, 01:11 PM   #1285
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CAN deals over US

I'm seeing about the same kind of price range in Canada right now for 08 M3's i've been on the hunt for a while. Best deal i've seen is an 08 that was alpine white and fox red int. Went for around $37K CAN. high miles though. It was definitely an everyday driver. I'm still seeing better deals in the US, but our $ is losing ground now.
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      07-05-2013, 06:56 AM   #1286
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2011 E92 M3 (Alpine White w/ black novillo extended, DCT+fully loaded and in excellent condition with clean service records, no accidents, etc) w/ 7500miles for $59k+TTL-- dealer originally asked $61k for it; MSRP was ~75k. Price was negotiated in late June 2013.
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      07-05-2013, 07:31 AM   #1287
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You guys really shouldn't be paying anywhere near $60k for one of these used. Once you hit $60k you're approaching "loaded, ED invoice" prices. For example my 2013 loaded E92 was just under $64k with ED.
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      07-05-2013, 10:56 AM   #1288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowed View Post
2011 E92 M3 (Alpine White w/ black novillo extended, DCT+fully loaded and in excellent condition with clean service records, no accidents, etc) w/ 7500miles for $59k+TTL-- dealer originally asked $61k for it; MSRP was ~75k. Price was negotiated in late June 2013.
what?! that's insanely high for a 2 year old car. sorry man, but you overpaid by about $5k-$8k
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      07-05-2013, 12:17 PM   #1289
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Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
what?! that's insanely high for a 2 year old car. sorry man, but you overpaid by about $5k-$8k
I did not pay yet That was just the latest deal but I was about to pull the trigger. According to KBB it looks like the dealer price should hover around 62k-- maybe the price is so high due to the low mileage? Also note this is a DCT (+2900)
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      07-05-2013, 12:21 PM   #1290
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Quote:
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I did not pay yet That was just the latest deal but I was about to pull the trigger. According to KBB it looks like the dealer price should hover around 62k-- maybe the price is so high due to the low mileage?
just to give you an idea of the range you should be paying....

In 2010, I bought a 2008 model ($67k) sticker, 8200 miles, for $46k cash. there's no way a 2 year old $75k sticker car should be in the $61k range. As the other guy said, $60k is the ED price range, and new M3s were selling for below sticker in the least few years.

Sure, markets change, so you should read the more recent posts..but a check of dealer-only auction prices would also help too. that's the bottom price (+ a modest profit) they're willing to sell it to you for a cash deal.
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      07-05-2013, 12:34 PM   #1291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
just to give you an idea of the range you should be paying....

In 2010, I bought a 2008 model ($67k) sticker, 8200 miles, for $46k cash. there's no way a 2 year old $75k sticker car should be in the $61k range. As the other guy said, $60k is the ED price range, and new M3s were selling for below sticker in the least few years.

Sure, markets change, so you should read the more recent posts..but a check of dealer-only auction prices would also help too. that's the bottom price (+ a modest profit) they're willing to sell it to you for a cash deal.
So is KBB not really a good indicator of what we should be paying for used cars? I used an app called "Snafu" to look up this particular VIN and it said the "auction car value" was $52k for this car/mileage combination. Since this car wasn't bought at an auction by the dealer, I am not sure how they came up with that price, but interesting to see nonetheless.

I am trying to find a similar car purchased by a user in the past to compare but can't find an apples-to-apples comparison. I appreciate the heads up as I'll be doing a bit more research now.
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      07-05-2013, 12:39 PM   #1292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowed View Post
So is KBB not really a good indicator of what we should be paying for used cars? I used an app called "Snafu" to look up this particular VIN and it said the "auction car value" was $52k for this car/mileage combination. Since this car wasn't bought at an auction by the dealer, I am not sure how they came up with that price, but interesting to see nonetheless.

I am trying to find a similar car purchased by a user in the past to compare but can't find an apples-to-apples comparison. I appreciate the heads up as I'll be doing a bit more research now.
the best price would be Manheim dealer-only auction clearing prices for comparable models/mileage/location cars.

The theory is this, if the dealer fails to sell the car, their minimum price they will receive will be around the recent manheim auction clearing prices. so you will see that most used cars will be marketed at a margin over those prices, and trade-ins will be offered either at the auction prices or even slightly below. This essentially locks in a profit on these cars!

How do you get access to these prices? make friends with some people who has access as dealers themselves. There are also some ppl on this forum who has access, but they need to be careful, the auction data is proprietary for "members" only, so they could get sued for displaying it publicly.

I haven't seen a Manheim auction pricing run thread recently, but do a search on this forum by "Manheim" "auction" keywords, you'll see some old prices, then do a quick approximation based on those dates the posts were made and the year/model car they were looking at to get a good idea what the dealer-only markets are valuing these cars. I'm guessing your car would be in the Mid-$50k range or low-$50k range.


Finally, another app that does a similar function is called "Car-tel" or something like that. Problem with that app is, I think they give you last clearing price in the country. although it gives you a good idea, the data has many bias as you can imagine. We're not selling SP500 stock here where it's liquid product, the price ranges vary greatly, and the prices quoted on the app (last time I check) is severly "scrubbed".

You can also use Truecar.com, although it's a great source to use for new car pricing, it still shows after-sales pricing (dealer profit margins baked in), which isn't ideal b/c what if 90% of the buyers were all getting ripped off with a $4k profit margin, etc? Truecar aggregates figures from state motor registry figures, so it represent true "walk out" prices of car before state sales taxes are assessed, so one can also argue on a microeconomic basis that it represents "market price" of what consumers are willing to pay.

KBB I believe is also "scrubbed" data. I believe KBB is also "self-reported" data from the dealers themselves, so the number represent prices with average dealer profit baked in.

Last edited by mdosu; 07-05-2013 at 12:51 PM.
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      07-05-2013, 12:59 PM   #1293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
the best price would be Manheim dealer-only auction clearing prices for comparable models/mileage/location cars.

The theory is this, if the dealer fails to sell the car, their minimum price they will receive will be around the recent manheim auction clearing prices. so you will see that most used cars will be marketed at a margin over those prices, and trade-ins will be offered either at the auction prices or even slightly below. This essentially locks in a profit on these cars!

How do you get access to these prices? make friends with some people who has access as dealers themselves. There are also some ppl on this forum who has access, but they need to be careful, the auction data is proprietary for "members" only, so they could get sued for displaying it publicly.

I haven't seen a Manheim auction pricing run thread recently, but do a search on this forum by "Manheim" "auction" keywords, you'll see some old prices, then do a quick approximation based on those dates the posts were made and the year/model car they were looking at to get a good idea what the dealer-only markets are valuing these cars. I'm guessing your car would be in the Mid-$50k range or low-$50k range.


Finally, another app that does a similar function is called "Car-tel" or something like that. Problem with that app is, I think they give you last clearing price in the country. although it gives you a good idea, the data has many bias as you can imagine. We're not selling SP500 stock here where it's liquid product, the price ranges vary greatly, and the prices quoted on the app (last time I check) is severly "scrubbed".

You can also use Truecar.com, although it's a great source to use for new car pricing, it still shows after-sales pricing (dealer profit margins baked in), which isn't ideal b/c what if 90% of the buyers were all getting ripped off with a $4k profit margin, etc? Truecar aggregates figures from state motor registry figures, so it represent true "walk out" prices of car before state sales taxes are assessed.

KBB I believe is also "scrubbed" data. I believe KBB is also "self-reported" data from the dealers themselves, so the number represent prices with average dealer profit baked in.
All very interesting! I will check these out. I appreciate helpful members like yourself that are willing to help used car newbies out

As a reference to others: using TrueCar's "ClearBook" service to see what a used car is worth, I found the following.

A fully loaded 2011 E92 M3 in excellent condition and low mileage has:
Market Avg. Sale price = $59,937
Low Sale Price = $51k
High Sale Price = $$64k

It is using 605 data points, but as you mentioned above, it's likely majority of these sales were reported by dealers. Also, it would be nice to see the selling prices within the last X months or so, but I don't see an option for that.
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      07-05-2013, 01:05 PM   #1294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crowed View Post
As a reference to others: using TrueCar's "ClearBook" service to see what a used car is worth, I found the following.

A fully loaded 2011 E92 M3 in excellent condition and low mileage has:
Market Avg. Sale price = $59,937
Low Sale Price = $51k
High Sale Price = $$64k

It is using 605 data points, but as you mentioned above, it's likely majority of these sales were reported by dealers. Also, it would be nice to see the selling prices within the last X months or so, but I don't see an option for that.
enough said...so whatever rationale they use to get you to pay $61k....tell them

but you'll like to clear the BS and get to the real value in the deal. Remember, they still need a profit to feed their kids, I think a $500 to a $1k profit on top of auction prices is reasonable across all parties, especially for a high volume dealer.

this shows that some cars have been sold in the $50k range, but Truecar wont' give you the full data b/c you need to see the skewness of the 605 data points, it's all scrubbed, which for me renders it virtually useless. The numbers don't lie when you look at raw auction prices

Last edited by mdosu; 07-05-2013 at 01:11 PM.
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      07-05-2013, 08:08 PM   #1295
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Ok here's the two I'm looking at and wouldn't mind an opinion guys.

1st) 2011 coupe, White, auto, carbon fiber roof, Tech Package, 20,750 miles asking 53k
2nd) 2009 coupe, Space Grey, 6 Speed, Sun Roof, Tech Package, 33,800 miles asking 44k. Both black interior.

Both prices are list prices no, negotiating yet. Thoughts? Which one is the better car to run with? Realistically I love the 2011, but is it worth the extra 9k?
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      07-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #1296
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No brainer if you can afford #1. You have factory warranty and lower milage. Unless you're set on 6MT.
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      07-05-2013, 08:34 PM   #1297
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No brainer if you can afford #1. You have factory warranty and lower milage. Unless you're set on 6MT.
It's tough, justifying another 150 bucks a month for 10k less miles and a transmission and roof. I'm not strapped for cash, just trying to do this logically. I'm not sure either, but maybe there is more room in the 09 vs 11 too to get it down farther.
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      07-05-2013, 10:31 PM   #1298
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Ok here's the two I'm looking at and wouldn't mind an opinion guys.

1st) 2011 coupe, White, auto, carbon fiber roof, Tech Package, 20,750 miles asking 53k
2nd) 2009 coupe, Space Grey, 6 Speed, Sun Roof, Tech Package, 33,800 miles asking 44k. Both black interior.

Both prices are list prices no, negotiating yet. Thoughts? Which one is the better car to run with? Realistically I love the 2011, but is it worth the extra 9k?
#1 is no brainer if you can swing the extra $ Aim for $50k for this car.
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