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      06-17-2013, 11:39 AM   #45
robotk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Venom View Post
Ok, I'm not going to defend my previous statement as I couldn't get my point across the way I wanted and just feel like an idiot now, but I do believe a MT is more fun than paddles any day of the week. It's just that these cars have gotten too "advanced" for MT thus are going the DCT/PDK path. Chris Harris actually said exactly what I said when he pointed out that if the car were manual, he would have to work a lot harder for the car to perform the way it does and it would be overload for him. I learned how to drive on a MT back home in Europe (where 95% of the cars driven are manual, lol) and in the states my first car was manual. I now drive an auto but half the time I'm in manual mode because it is more exciting.
I do agree that the PDK will extract every ounce of performance from that car. Some cars are techno tour de forces and paddle shifters fit their character. I can't imagine an MP4 with anything but a paddle box.

The 911, however, is a car of tradition - that's what makes the break from MT tough to swallow.
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      06-17-2013, 12:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by KEYON View Post
The RS in manual would be insane
Why would they want to make the performance version RS slower than the regular gt3?
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      06-17-2013, 04:54 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Because a manual option for the RS would appeal to a certain demographic of Porsche buyers. I'm not suggesting to skip the PDK, but adding a 7MT as an option. As I said before, it's not just about speed, it's about the overall mechanical connection you get by rowing your own gears.
Porsche won't allow the standard car to have a faster ring time than the RS. It won't happen. They may offer a manual in a year or so due to public pressure but most likely an option for both the standard and RS cars.
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      06-17-2013, 06:43 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
No, it's not. A gt3 cup car is a dedicated track car. A lotus is a dedicated track car.

The gt3 has a sunroof, powered seats, navigation, heated seats etc....

The reason they added pdk is that it appeals to more people and can post faster lap times in magaxine comparisons with the gtr etc.

Of course manuals are slower given an equal driver, but improving driver skill shaves a hell of a lot more time than a gearbox for most who will own this car.

Streetable sports cars are about fun. And *gasp* some cavemen like me think a manual is more challenging or fun. I look forward to posting ever improving lap times in my antiquated and slow manual Porsche

Also, all turbo models are pdk only now, not just the turbo s.
Where have you been? A gt3 hasn't had a sunroof since 2008. Power seats, heated seats and Nav are OPTIONS. The same options have been available since the 996 GT3, close to a decade ago. One does not have to order these.
The e-diff is one of many reasons why understeer has been tuned out of this car. Without PDK, the e-diff wouldn't exist in this car.
As previously posted, the M5/6s were flops when BMW resorted to fulfilling US consumer demand. Those engines were designed for an auto-mated box with close, tight gear ratios. The manual spoiled that party.
I love a true manual, but facts are facts.

Last edited by devo; 06-17-2013 at 06:52 PM.
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      06-18-2013, 07:43 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devo View Post
Where have you been? A gt3 hasn't had a sunroof since 2008. Power seats, heated seats and Nav are OPTIONS. The same options have been available since the 996 GT3, close to a decade ago. One does not have to order these.
The e-diff is one of many reasons why understeer has been tuned out of this car. Without PDK, the e-diff wouldn't exist in this car.
As previously posted, the M5/6s were flops when BMW resorted to fulfilling US consumer demand. Those engines were designed for an auto-mated box with close, tight gear ratios. The manual spoiled that party.
I love a true manual, but facts are facts.
The point is that it is not a dedicated track or race car. It is still meant to be driven on the street, therefore its not like is a no comprimises race car. That is what the gt3 cup is for.

In that vein, it still is about enjoying the car. Some find enjoyment out of manuals, some PDK. I am a manual guy, but I totally understand how people can love what PDK offers also. My point is that since it is a sports car that is about fun and not a strictly racing car, it should have been offered with both transmissions. If it was made strictly to be as fast as humanly possible it would have only one seat, no interior carpeting etc...and obviously no AC (aka exactly what a gt3 cup car is). But that's not what the gt3 is and has been. Its the ultimate blend of a track car that is still legit on the street. I almost bought one before going with the 997.1TT, which I also track.

As for the last point, I don't think the failure of the m5 has anything to do with being offered with a manual and DCT. The car has gotten bad reviews with both transmissions. It isn't a great car because its massive and weighs just shy of 4500 pounds. In almost all reviews, its been tested with DCT and still comes in last (M5/6).
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      06-18-2013, 08:23 AM   #50
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I'm waiting to see how this pans out. If they really ditch manual on all their top performance cars. I think it would be a good idea to pick up a 997.2 GT3/RS as it will be the last track ready 6mt 911. Possibly a collectible down the line.
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      06-18-2013, 04:00 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
Because a manual option for the RS would appeal to a certain demographic of Porsche buyers. I'm not suggesting to skip the PDK, but adding a 7MT as an option. As I said before, it's not just about speed, it's about the overall mechanical connection you get by rowing your own gears.
^this

I think the new RS will become the go to for Porsche owners that still love that nimble hardcore feel of a Porsche and I have no doubt that the RS will become the new ultimate drivers car that will attract purists that were disappointed in the upcoming GT3. But, I can only hope they use this logic to add a 7MT (or even a 6MT) to it.

The GT3 in my eyes was a disappointment just because the lack of a manual option. To say everyone enjoys a car the same way would be like saying every man has the same favorite sex position. Some people prefer a PDK and some prefer a manual. To not even have the option of rowing your own cars in the one car that I thought would remain a manual only for a while is surprising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
Porsche won't allow the standard car to have a faster ring time than the RS. It won't happen. They may offer a manual in a year or so due to public pressure but most likely an option for both the standard and RS cars.
True, but they might consider adding a manual as an option for their most aggressive GT3 since they can obviously see by the web that their is demand for a mechanical connection with their new GT3. By having a PDK as standard and a Manual as an option, the RS won't lose ring time and it will attract people who love the feel of rowing their own gears. It's a win win in my opinion.
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      06-18-2013, 04:18 PM   #52
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MT is not happening on this GT3 or RS. The 9A1 was developed in tandem with PDK and squeezing every drop of performance out of this car requires this combination.

Heresy or not I agree with Porsche on their decision with the transmission and focusing on pure performance.

I doubt anyone would miss MT ripping around in that beast.
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      06-18-2013, 05:17 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KEYON View Post
^this

I think the new RS will become the go to for Porsche owners that still love that nimble hardcore feel of a Porsche and I have no doubt that the RS will become the new ultimate drivers car that will attract purists that were disappointed in the upcoming GT3. But, I can only hope they use this logic to add a 7MT (or even a 6MT) to it.

The GT3 in my eyes was a disappointment just because the lack of a manual option. To say everyone enjoys a car the same way would be like saying every man has the same favorite sex position. Some people prefer a PDK and some prefer a manual. To not even have the option of rowing your own cars in the one car that I thought would remain a manual only for a while is surprising.



True, but they might consider adding a manual as an option for their most aggressive GT3 since they can obviously see by the web that their is demand for a mechanical connection with their new GT3. By having a PDK as standard and a Manual as an option, the RS won't lose ring time and it will attract people who love the feel of rowing their own gears. It's a win win in my opinion.
Although I understand your sentiment, it is only a matter of time before an old fashion MT will be next to impossible to find in a high performance car. My children will likely not know how to drive a MT because there won't be any around when they are learning to drive
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      06-18-2013, 07:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
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I doubt anyone would miss MT ripping around in that beast.

I think many MT Porsche owners would disagree.
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