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      06-12-2013, 10:09 PM   #1
SumoJax
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track tire setup? square or staggered??

Just got back from 6th gear event at Mosport today. What a great day and hats of to 6th gear for running a great event. Open track and great food!! Good variety of cars too. Got to try my new ESS VT2 600 install on the track for the first time, gave a few ferraris, porches, mustangs and GTRs a surprise in the straights!!

Unfortunately my day was cut short as i decided to stop running in the afternoon as I discovered my front tires were taking a real beating with lots of tire roll and a few "chunks" on the outside tread of the drivers side tire.

Braiden Tire service was on site for the event and the tech thought my pressure may have been too low causing a lot of tire roll. I was running about 40-42 hot but then on his advise bumped it up to 45-47. Felt better but the "chunk" was getting worse, needed to save tires to drive home and didn't want to chance a blowout on the track.

I'm currently running stock 19" with staggered ps2. Thinking I'll save these for the street and get a set of 18" for the track days.
Any advise on a 18" track set would be great!!!
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      06-13-2013, 07:56 AM   #2
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A square setup is the way to go.I run 275/35 18's on 18x10's @ 25p and the setup works great with the car being very neutral and the ability to rotate the tires to even up the wear.

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      06-13-2013, 10:17 AM   #3
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Thanks!! Are you running apex wheels?? What about tires? Tire tech recomended i consider a Toyo R888.........or
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      06-13-2013, 10:56 AM   #4
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Thanks!! Are you running apex wheels?? What about tires? Tire tech recomended i consider a Toyo R888.........or
I have both the Apex arc 8's and the TRMotorsport MT1's from Tire Rack.They both weigh about 20 lbs and have lots of clearance for my 380mm Stoptechs though the MT1's have more room for larger brakes.

I am not a fan of the 888's at all as they did not last me more than 3.5 hours of use on the rear.They work better on a smaller lower powered car.I have been running Nitto NT05's which might not be the quickest but are very durable and get 13-15 days out of them.Toyo RA1's & Michelin PSS's have also worked OK for me with the PSS being a great wet tire but probally a worse dry tire than the others.I have BFG Rivals on order but I understand that they will not be here till July.


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      06-13-2013, 06:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumoJax View Post
Braiden Tire service was on site for the event and the tech thought my pressure may have been too low causing a lot of tire roll. I was running about 40-42 hot but then on his advise bumped it up to 45-47. Felt better but the "chunk" was getting worse, needed to save tires to drive home and didn't want to chance a blowout on the track.

I'm currently running stock 19" with staggered ps2. Thinking I'll save these for the street and get a set of 18" for the track days.
Any advise on a 18" track set would be great!!!
PS2 are known for not dealing with heat well, and are prone to chunking. We've seen it many times among the folks that track here. I'm surprised the tech recommended going to a higher PSI. With PS2 on my M3, I tried to start 32/33 cold and get up to around 38 hot. That's when they seemed to work best, but you do need to manage the tires a fair bit due to the chunking.

On a similar note, I ran both staggered and square setups. I've found that it really depends on the track. When I want good rotation, i'd go square, and when I wanted high speed stability, i'd go staggered.
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      06-13-2013, 07:46 PM   #6
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PS2 are known for not dealing with heat well, and are prone to chunking. We've seen it many times among the folks that track here. I'm surprised the tech recommended going to a higher PSI. With PS2 on my M3, I tried to start 32/33 cold and get up to around 38 hot. That's when they seemed to work best, but you do need to manage the tires a fair bit due to the chunking.

On a similar note, I ran both staggered and square setups. I've found that it really depends on the track. When I want good rotation, i'd go square, and when I wanted high speed stability, i'd go staggered.

Think the tech saw that I was rolling tire and driving on top of sidewalls. I was running about 35 cold in the morning. The chunk got bigger so I felt it was better to be safe. Think I'm leaning towards a square setup, like the idea of being able to rotate around depending on wear. Also a spare or two might work out as well?

Few photos below of tire wear and "chunk".
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      06-13-2013, 08:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumoJax View Post
Think the tech saw that I was rolling tire and driving on top of sidewalls. I was running about 35 cold in the morning. The chunk got bigger so I felt it was better to be safe. Think I'm leaning towards a square setup, like the idea of being able to rotate around depending on wear. Also a spare or two might work out as well?

Few photos below of tire wear and "chunk".
Holy crap!I have never seen a M3 roll the front tires roll up like that!Even at 35 lbs cold.Where you riding up on the curbs a lot?
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      06-13-2013, 08:50 PM   #8
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Yea that's pretty bad, I'd stop too.

Without proper track tires you need to know how to back off and not push the corners.

My plan is a squared setup for my track wheels.
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      06-13-2013, 09:13 PM   #9
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I love my 275/38/18 NT01 Square setup on my 18x10 ET25 EC7 Apex Wheels... I start at 30psi cold and warm it gets up to about 38psi.

It has worked really well... I am 5 track days on these NT01 and they're still quite sticky.
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      06-13-2013, 09:58 PM   #10
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Holy crap!I have never seen a M3 roll the front tires roll up like that!Even at 35 lbs cold.Where you riding up on the curbs a lot?
No curbs just driving the crap out of them I guess. Had some fast cars I had to keep up with!!

The Aventador LP700-4 waved me past
He must have just been taking it easy, but it still felt good getting the wave!! (video evidence to follow)
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      06-16-2013, 08:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Gearhead999s View Post
I have both the Apex arc 8's and the TRMotorsport MT1's from Tire Rack.They both weigh about 20 lbs and have lots of clearance for my 380mm Stoptechs though the MT1's have more room for larger brakes.

I am not a fan of the 888's at all as they did not last me more than 3.5 hours of use on the rear.They work better on a smaller lower powered car.I have been running Nitto NT05's which might not be the quickest but are very durable and get 13-15 days out of them.Toyo RA1's & Michelin PSS's have also worked OK for me with the PSS being a great wet tire but probally a worse dry tire than the others.I have BFG Rivals on order but I understand that they will not be here till July.

Think I've decided to go with Apex ec-7 18x10 square with either Nitto NT05 or NT01, 275/35/18. I've been looking online and discount tire direct seems to have a great price on the Nitto's. Any local tire shop in GTA that would have a good deal on these or should I order them from US??
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      06-17-2013, 07:39 AM   #12
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Think I've decided to go with Apex ec-7 18x10 square with either Nitto NT05 or NT01, 275/35/18. I've been looking online and discount tire direct seems to have a great price on the Nitto's. Any local tire shop in GTA that would have a good deal on these or should I order them from US??
I know that Brad from Braiden tire is stocking the NT01's and could get the NT05's if he did not have them in stock.His pricing was good the last time I checked.
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      06-17-2013, 02:16 PM   #13
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I know that Brad from Braiden tire is stocking the NT01's and could get the NT05's if he did not have them in stock.His pricing was good the last time I checked.
Thanks dealing with Brad. Last question regarding the square setup with this tire size. Is it expected that tires will rub on fender and or wheel well liner? Solutions?
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      06-17-2013, 02:29 PM   #14
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Thanks dealing with Brad. Last question regarding the square setup with this tire size. Is it expected that tires will rub on fender and or wheel well liner? Solutions?
With 18x10's @ 25P you should not have any rubbing with 275/35 18's.My car is a stock ZCP and I have never seen any contact.
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      06-18-2013, 08:27 AM   #15
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Spent a few hours with Brad yesterday at his shop and tried on some wheel tire combos. He had a great deal on a set of OZ Racing Challenge HLT 18x10 with offset of 25. He didn't have the 275/35/18 in stock for the Nitto's but we put on a R888 for fit. Fit well except the fronts seem to rub fender liner at about half turn on outside of tire close to driver. Would this be due to the tire, rim, suspention?? Wheels look great not sure why this is not working out.
OZ indicates that this is a proper fitment for the car. Need to go to 30 profile?? Anyone else run these wheels before?
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      06-18-2013, 08:31 AM   #16
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I'm running a 18x9.5 Advan ET25 upfront with 275 35R18 with no fitment issues.

I suspect the extra half inch of rim width is causing the wheel to stick out just a little more which is causing the rubbing. If this is the 'proper' fitment for the M3, maybe it is because in track setup, there is more negative camber which allows for the extra track width. Just a thought.

It was great meeting you last week. Beautiful car.
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      06-18-2013, 08:54 AM   #17
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Spent a few hours with Brad yesterday at his shop and tried on some wheel tire combos. He had a great deal on a set of OZ Racing Challenge HLT 18x10 with offset of 25. He didn't have the 275/35/18 in stock for the Nitto's but we put on a R888 for fit. Fit well except the fronts seem to rub fender liner at about half turn on outside of tire close to driver. Would this be due to the tire, rim, suspention?? Wheels look great not sure why this is not working out.
OZ indicates that this is a proper fitment for the car. Need to go to 30 profile?? Anyone else run these wheels before?
Odd as I have run many different sets of 275's including the Toyo's with no clearance issues on both of my E92's.What suspension are you running?I have very little clearance but no rub for sure.
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      06-18-2013, 09:11 AM   #18
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I'm running a 18x9.5 Advan ET25 upfront with 275 35R18 with no fitment issues.

I suspect the extra half inch of rim width is causing the wheel to stick out just a little more which is causing the rubbing. If this is the 'proper' fitment for the M3, maybe it is because in track setup, there is more negative camber which allows for the extra track width. Just a thought.

It was great meeting you last week. Beautiful car.
It was nice to meet you as well!! Was a great day, looking forward to many more!!! Sure we will see you out there again.
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      06-18-2013, 09:17 AM   #19
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Odd as I have run many different sets of 275's including the Toyo's with no clearance issues on both of my E92's.What suspension are you running?I have very little clearance but no rub for sure.
Full stock suspention, no changes since I purchased from dealer. Brad took my car today and told me he would fiqure it out by the end of the day. Update to follow.............

BTW replaced front tire and he is pretty confident they will warranty the PS2, he says they have been pretty good in the past. Even with a visually "tracked" tire.
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      06-18-2013, 10:08 AM   #20
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Wheel and tire set up

I've ran both staggered and square set up. I haven't really been able to tell the difference for I only track at least once a month "allowed by wife". Currently I'm running Te-37's Front 18x9.5 et 20 w/ Hankook RS3's 265/35/18 Rear 18x10.5 et 22 w/ Hankook RS3's 285/35/18 w/ KW Clubsports suspension. Be mindful what kind of wheels to get if later you decide to upgrade to a Big Brake Kit. some wheels will not fit a paticular BBK. I'm running Brembo's front 365 mm and rear 345 mm rotors. I really like my set up and it's a popular set up. Hope it helps narrow your search.
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      06-19-2013, 03:43 PM   #21
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Hats off to Brad and his crew at Braiden Tire, they figured out the problem. Seems my air intake for my ESS kit on the drivers side was pushing on the wheel liner and reducing the clearance for the wheels. Adjustments were made and fits great now. I ended up going with the R888 for now as the price point was a no brainer, less than half the Nittos. If I burn through them I'll get Nittos next.
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      06-19-2013, 03:59 PM   #22
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Glad you got it figured out!Looks good
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