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      06-05-2013, 11:43 AM   #1
pyrocpu
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Question Sell S2000 for E90 M3?

"I'll keep my S2000 for decades!" ... so I said for the past 6 years...

So help me out here--dilemma... considering a buddy's gently-loved 08MY E90 M3, 6-speed. It's kinda like the other posting on here, where the OP is toying around with the idea of selling his M3 for a GT-R... only for me... sell S2000 for M3?

Background (keeping it as concise as possible):
* Bought the S2000 new in 2007
* Until last autumn, it had only 16K on the odometer
* Was a third vehicle; daily driver was a 12MY FX35
* Past vehicles have always been new; highlights include 03MY G35 Coupe 6-speed, 05MY 350Z 6-speed, Xterra Off-Road 6-speed
* Worked in the auto industry for a decade where my job was to analyze new cars & trucks, critiquing faults and noting highlights of vehicles such as: build quality, NVH, ergonomics, feature set, on-track performance, real world driving dynamics

Current Status:
* Divorced, lost the FX that I'd *just* gotten, plus the lost the other car
* Was a third vehicle, now the only car (motorcycle I got to keep )
* S2K has 27k on the clock, being pressed into daily driving duties
* Finally bought another house, post-divorce, back on the West Coast
* 11mi ea/way commute

Lifestage/Mindset
* Early 30s w/ girlfriend
* No kids, not intending any anytime soon
* Used to do 3-4 HPDEs a year
* Used to love mountain drives
* Truly not a brand-whore--I could have instead gotten a new base 335i sedan at the time
* Work hard, play harder

S2000 Pros:
* Old-school VTEC: love the cam kickover! Love revving the engine. Sorry, a little bit of a ricer at heart.
* Transmission: agreed--best trans, ever
* Handling: nimble, neutral (on the track)
* Easily to get into that "one-ness with the car" zone
* MPG: good; average 25mpg in mixed city/hwy
* A blast on the track--can keep up with more exotic hardware
* Driving position is perfect, even though the steering wheel is non-adjustable and seat can only move in 4 directions, manually.
* Great out of the box with little modification needed. This is one of the main reasons I bought the thing--I have great appreciation for OEM engineering
* Interior, while spartan, is of good quality: no rattles, tight panel gaps, solid switchgear feel. Better than a C6 ZR1's interior, IMHO (just quality, not feature set), for instance
* Maintenance is cheap!
* Best of all, I don't owe a dime on this car--haven't for a few years.

S2000 Cons:
* Need to rev it where ever I go. Yes, it's a double-edged sword.
* Passenger seat blows. I've ridden in it several times--bless my girlfriend's patience!
* Cannot do Costco/Home Depot runs. As a new homeowner, this really, really sucks.
* JFC this thing is noisy. My previous work life has completely damaged me in what I look for in NVH. I cannot hear anyone on my noise-cancelling BT headset. When accelerating, everyone stops talking--doesn't matter if they're riding shotgun or on the phone--it ALWAYS stops conversation. Getting annoying for me; I can only imagine what it's like for my friends & family.
* I've gotten tired of track days. I've gotten to the point where my lap times are consistent and I no longer have an adrenaline rush. It seems... very "normal." In order to go faster, would need several thousand dollars in upgrades. No, thanks.
* Can't hit up the mountain roads anymore. Too far away for the weekdays; too many cops & traffic on the weekends
* S2000 is literally just used as commuting, and weekend errands that don't require me purchasing much more than a small grocery run.
* Can't do double-dates--must take g/f's tired economy car
* Steering: while very precise, the EPS system takes all the feel out of it
* Ride quality: tolerable as a driver for trips < 100mi; mediocre after that. Horrible as a passenger. Let's just say ya don't wanna make the g/f's twins unhappy, because later that night I'll be unhappy.

E90 M3 Pros:
* 4-doors! Seats 5! Zomg!
* Power. "Enough" torque to not have to shift all the time.
* Finally, a decent audio system!
* Steering: feel/feedback is amazing
* Quiet in "normal" driving
* Suspension: Jeez--great ride quality and also great handling too? This is awesome!
* Buddy's E90 M3 has fold-down rear seats for the HD/Lowe's runs.
* 6-speed: Must have 3-pedals. I know the DCT is quicker; I just find a 3-pedal car more soulful & rewarding for myself. Just me though.
* Also great out of the box with no modifications needed--again, great OEM engineering, at least for performance.

E90 M3 Cons:
* MPG. 15-16mpg average?
* Shift feel just isn't the same as the S2000.
* Maintenance/reliability: this would be my first European car. Already reading about the throttle body motor gear stripping @ ~$800/ea for parts
* Motor oil: 10W-60? Really? And lots of it? C'mon...
* Used car: never had one before
* Color combo kinda so-so: dark grey (not sure which) with silver interior

Dilemma:
* Funding: I just bought a GD house. I need to sell the S2000 to buy buddy's M3.
* Regrets: I've looked on this forum--everyone who has had an S2000 regretted selling it. However, of all those folks, almost all of them are non-M owners (mostly 335 owners). For those who have had an S2000 and now a E9x M3--I wonder what their take is? On the S2000 forum, there are MANY instances where people are second-time owners of the S2000: had one, sold it, regretted it, bought another used one later. I already know I'm going to regret selling it. But it would just be financially irresponsible to keep the S and also snap up my buddy's car.
* I could keep the S2000 and snap up a Honda Fit Sport in manual trans for DD duty, but man, not sure about a penalty box car.
* S2000 was bought literally a couple of weeks after the wedding: permission from the ex-wife was the only "wedding gift" that I wanted. Yeah. The S is tied to a dead marriage.
* Yes, I could ride the motorbike to work more, but putting on all my gear on, then off at the office... it's a PITA and takes longer than just driving! The 45mpg is a plus though.

Specs on Buddy's M3:
08MY, ~45K, 3-pedal, Cold, Premium, Tech. Very minimal mods--spacers, 18" OE wheels, exhaust (kept OE exhaust which I'll re-mount), shift knob, OE accessory pedals. Tint.

Anecdotal--I have a twisted/weird taste for cars... examples:
* Rather have a VW Jetta TDI 6-speed vs. a Maxima, for instance
* Fit Sport > MB C-class
* M3 > GT-R
* BR-Z > Mustang GT
* Altima V6 > Audi A4

So... what are YOUR thoughts? What do I do?! First-world problems for sure.
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      06-05-2013, 11:45 AM   #2
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i didn't read your post, but go for the e90 M.
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      06-05-2013, 11:53 AM   #3
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Keep s2k, buy a $5000 used crv with 175k mi for Home Depot and dd
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      06-05-2013, 11:56 AM   #4
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You've got a lot on your mind. I'd go for the M3.
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      06-05-2013, 01:11 PM   #5
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funny, i am in exact same situation (car wise). s4play who has nsx, s2k and e90 advised i keep both
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      06-05-2013, 01:13 PM   #6
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I had an s2k in 04. This is an M3, it really is on another level than an s2k.

>>> If Home Depot runs are a big + be advised that fold down seats on the e90 ARE AN OPTION!!! both my e90 m3 have NOT had fold down seats and it sucks
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      06-05-2013, 02:05 PM   #7
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I had an S2000 years ago as a weekend toy. The M3 is a more refine automobile and much more usable. If this is going to be your only car, it's a no brainer. Go with the M3. When you have the funding and ready for a second car, then just pick up another used S2000.
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      06-05-2013, 02:31 PM   #8
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To me they are not even in the same class. E90 all day.
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      06-05-2013, 02:52 PM   #9
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I couldn't bear to part w/ my s2k, so I have both. I commute w/ the s2k and drive the m3 on weekends. While the M3 isn't the most comfortable car, it's worlds ahead of the s2k. So it keeps my gf happy, especially on longer drives.

That's a tough position to be in. Good clean s2k's are hard to find. The thought of selling mine made me remember how long it took me to find mine (used). The same thought applied to my E90, which I also bought used. For me when it comes to buying used cars, it always seems hard to find the right color w/ the right options.
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      06-05-2013, 02:58 PM   #10
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Yup, buddy's M3 I'm looking at has the fold-down rear seat. I had him take a pic.

RE: Second vehicle: Here's the thing... it seems a little greedy for me to keep the S in the garage, sitting next to my motorcycle on its stand for the weekend while running an econobox for 90% of my driving...

RE: Buying another S later... Hmm. Perhaps 5-8 years down the line, something stupidly impractical and sporty might do... like an Elise? That has a nice ring to it...

Great comments guys... keep em coming!
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      06-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #11
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I'm lucky enough to have owned a lot of cars including (pertinent to this discussion)
- 2001 S2000
- 2002 S2000
- 1997 NSX
- 2008 911 Carrera S

Each of those was sold for the next one as my fun, third car. I just bought a 2008 E90 6 speed (in my case, the birth of a child necessitated a real back seat to get car seat in/out).

I agree with a lot of your comments about the relative merits of both vehicles and in a vacuum would think that in most respects, the M3 would be a better only car for your situation than the S2K is. However, given your comments about finances, etc. I'm going to agree with mlambert890 and suggest that you strongly consider keeping the S2000 and purchase a cheap, used, late model Japanese sedan/wagon/SUV (Subaru Outback, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4) to rely on as a DD and for the HD runs you want to make.
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      06-05-2013, 04:07 PM   #12
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M3's were meant to be a daily driver that can take you to a track on weekends. Sounds like it fits the bill. You won't regret it. Granted I'm shopping for an s2k at the moment, so take my advice with a grain of salt
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      06-05-2013, 05:23 PM   #13
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You will miss the S2000, but you have a motorcycle, so it won't be quite so poignant!

I have an E90 M3 and S2000 (WRX is my wife's DD and our winter/hauling vehicle).

Probably my biggest gripe with the M3 versus the S2k is the shifter feel. The M3 is terrible in comparison. My biggest thrill of the M3 compared to the S2k is the steering feel (S2k is terrible).

I am in the process of selling my motorcycle, but at least I have the S2k.
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      06-05-2013, 05:26 PM   #14
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I am a former owner of an 02 NSX and 01 S2000 and can tell you keep the S2000. They are super easy to work on and very inexpensive. It is a great car for its time. I still like them. No need to sell a $9000 car thats paid off.

Pick up a used CRV if you need space. They are what $5000 or so used?
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      06-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless619 View Post
No need to sell a $9000 car thats paid off.
Bought new in 2007...so an 07 or 08 S2000. That is worth double (or more) unless the miles are extremely high.
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      06-05-2013, 05:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urBan_dK View Post
Bought new in 2007...so an 07 or 08 S2000. That is worth double (or more) unless the miles are extremely high.
Like I said I have seen them in the $8000 range. High mileage but still a steal IMO.
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      06-05-2013, 05:46 PM   #17
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Right, it's a 2007MY with 27,xxx on the clock. If it were worth only $9K, this wouldn't be a discussion at all: I'd keep the S, snap up this M3, and I'll continue with life. But with it being worth >$20K, it becomes a different equation.
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      06-05-2013, 05:51 PM   #18
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I have both (as well as a BRZ, E46 M3, and spec miata). The S2000 is more fun than the E90 M3 on twisty roads or the track since it is much smaller, sharper, and lighter. The m3 is way, way faster while being much more comfortable and practical, aside from its abysmal gas mileage and short range.

S2K throttle response >> M3
M3 steering feel >>> S2000
S2000 NVH >>>>>>>>>> M3 NVH

I get about 11-12mpg in the M3, 20-22mpg in the S2000, and about 22-24mpg in the BRZ with the same type of driving.

If I could have JUST one car I would have an E90 M3 without question.
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      06-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #19
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Yes.
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      06-06-2013, 02:09 AM   #20
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i didnt' fully read your post
but my answer was ready as soon as i read your thread title.

try your best to keep the S2K and buy the E90.
I believe those two cars are damn special, and it will remain that way for a long time.

in fact, i plan to purchase a well kept AP1 in the future, both cars are MUST in my future garage collection.
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      06-06-2013, 02:49 AM   #21
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If you have a subjective/emotional attachment to your S2000, that is an individual matter. Objectively, however, the M3 is simply in a different league.

You will have that same "precision engineered" feeling, but at a much higher level overall. It will cost more to own and maintain, but it is a benchmark automobile for good reason. The shifter in the M3 is its weak point, but you get very used to it, and after a short while it feels quite natural. The motor in the M3 is just intoxicating.

Honesty, to me, this is an easy choice. FWIW, my feeling on car choices appears similar to yours. As far as buying used.....no issue with it for the right car, and I think the color combo on the M3 looks great.
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      06-06-2013, 12:11 PM   #22
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For the track & twisties, I have no doubt the S2000 would be the more "engaging" experience--for sure! It's just that I'm no longer enjoying track days anymore--it's just not getting my adrenaline moving. Can't explain it. Maybe it's just over-conditioning?

Fuel range--you know that's a good question. I can't find out the "true" fuel capacity of the E90. Is it 16.x w/ a 3.x "reserve" for a round 20 gal? Or is it literally 16.x gal, which includes the reserve? ~250mi range sounds kinda sucky--not too different than my S2000.

Jae--If it were 10 years from now and I had more earning power (or at least, potential), maybe keep both, yes. Right now, it's just not in the cards.

Shifter--I get that the M3 shifter isn't *that* great, but it's surely not terrible? I see a couple of things on the forum about short shifter kits. I'm more interested in more precision, and not necessarily the throw. Other than a weighted shift knob like the M5 knob, does anyone replace just the shifter bushings to improve feel?

BTW, test drove a new Fit 5MT last night. Fun, for what it is, but reminds me a lot of my 07MY Versa SL hatch I had 6 years ago--Enjoyed it for about 5-6mo, then proceeded to drive the living snot out of it and ended up truly despising that vehicle. I can't do the s-box.
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