BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-02-2013, 06:31 PM   #23
ptack
Brigadier General
ptack's Avatar
United_States
47
Rep
4,267
Posts

 
Drives: 135i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 135i  [3.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuiter23 View Post
+1. The F30 is an improvement over the E90 in almost every category, maybe just lacking the steering response. However, once at speed or put into sport mode, the steering is very similar to an E90. I test drove a fully loaded F30 328i sport line, performance numbers are increased, the interior is more driver-oriented, and the car feels a lot more spacious. Not to mention that I love the new exterior design too especially the M-sports.
Gee, it's a good thing BMW's are not reknown for their handling or that might mean their cars are getting, big, boring and overpriced like the loaner I got. C&D, which admittedly worships the 3, just found the F30 worse than a Lexus in a comparison which is like a nun thinking a televangelist is more interesting than the pope.
__________________
135i, SGM, Coral, Sport Package, Auto, Premium Hifi, USB/ipod, Apex EC-7s, PPK Stage II
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2013, 09:18 PM   #24
cuiter23
Major
cuiter23's Avatar
19
Rep
1,074
Posts

 
Drives: E90 328i ZSP
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW 328i  [3.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptack View Post
Gee, it's a good thing BMW's are not reknown for their handling or that might mean their cars are getting, big, boring and overpriced like the loaner I got. C&D, which admittedly worships the 3, just found the F30 worse than a Lexus in a comparison which is like a nun thinking a televangelist is more interesting than the pope.
Why would anyone need a heavy steering wheel for manoeuvring in the city? Sure, I am fine with it because I am used to it but it is just not practical. This is not to say that the handling is not precise, the wheel is just lighter which makes commuting in traffic easier.

The only time you need a wheel with substantial weight is when the car is driven around the track and at higher speeds in which the sport mode is engaged. The F30 does feel like an E90 around the track and it is surprising how much quicker the newer 328i's are compared to the outgoing generation. As newer models roll out, there will always be people (myself sometimes) that criticize it for whatever reason. It just takes time for something to grow on to, I am positive that when the E90s were introduced the E46 owners had similar reactions.
__________________
2007 E90 328i - Titanium Metallic l 19" VMR V710 l H&R Trak+ Spacers l M-Sport Rear Bumper l Mtech Rear Lip Spoiler l Hamann Front Lip l Eibach Sportline l AA N52 Signature Exhaust l OEM Blacklines l MTEC V3 AE l 6000K HID l Nokya 7000K Fogs l MTEC License Plate LED l Interior LED l 15% Tint l BlackVue DR380G-HD + PMP
Appreciate 0
      05-02-2013, 10:21 PM   #25
genebike
Private
genebike's Avatar
0
Rep
49
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 e90 335i
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Ponte Vedra, Fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
These posts are always funny to me. I'm coming from an E46 M3, and everyone on the M3forums talks about how the E46 was the best car BMW ever made and their quality has been going down ever since.
I was thinking about this as I wrote my post. When the e90 M3 was being released it was "too big" and "too much of a departure" and now it's a revered automobile, and justifiably so. I think the F30 will eventually be very well received as the principal complaint is related to steering which they will invariably tweak.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 08:33 AM   #26
davesaddiction
is fast cars
davesaddiction's Avatar
United_States
34
Rep
1,588
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
LOL nah, don't worry, the BMW 3 has been on the 10 Best list for 20 yrs. Just tape the latest C&D issue to the dash as you drive your F30 and keep laughing at American cars...
Pretty sure the article I'm referencing also said that the F30 would most likely lose to the E90 in a heads-up comparison.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 09:23 AM   #27
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
50
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
Pretty sure the article I'm referencing also said that the F30 would most likely lose to the E90 in a heads-up comparison.
I love that one.

Sure it would. They did not have the cars in front of them to compare, so such a statement is just shooting the shit.

The 328 may have been knocked by the ATS in terms of handling and steering, but it still WON over the ATS, it still won the 8 car shoot out against all the entry level cars, it's doing great. The F30 335 though, it is having a harder time against the competition, losing to the ATS 3.6, the S4, and now the new IS350.

The cars are a recipe, and the E90 gets a bit more seasoning in the steering feel and handling department-that is a fact I have felt first hand.

But this idea, that E90's from years ago will step up to IMPROVED competition and win in place of the F30 is comical.

See it will get an extra point or two for steering or handling, then loose points for comfort, trunk size, rear seat legroom fuel economy, acceleration(328). The 335 F30 lost to the new IS by one point. So the E90 would lose, but just from a different column.
__________________
'98 M Roadster S/C @11-16ps
'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt Aero+ Tuned
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 10:03 AM   #28
davesaddiction
is fast cars
davesaddiction's Avatar
United_States
34
Rep
1,588
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
The 328 may have been knocked by the ATS in terms of handling and steering, but it still WON over the ATS
My letter to the editor on that one actually made it into print:

"The ATS, which 'recalibrated your scale' for handling, lost to the 328i based on styling, trunk and rear-seat space? Is this Car and Driver or Couch and Passenger?!"

Winning on points, but losing on what matters, is no win that I'd be proud of...
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #29
paradoxical3
Captain
14
Rep
663
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
My letter to the editor on that one actually made it into print:

"The ATS, which 'recalibrated your scale' for handling, lost to the 328i based on styling, trunk and rear-seat space? Is this Car and Driver or Couch and Passenger?!"

Winning on points, but losing on what matters, is no win that I'd be proud of...
+ infinity.

Not sure why people don't get this. If you bought a BMW for trunk space, electronic features, etc, YOU GOT SCREWED. There are numerous brands, including Japanese and Korean, that outperform BMW on those metrics.

It used to be that you bought BMW for the steering feel and performance, which was their strong point.

But really, this is very simple to illustrate. In 2007, the BMW 335 had 300 horsepower, the exact same engine that they still use today (335is), with all of the fit and finish and gizmos that they currently have. With minimal LCI improvements, BMW was selling the EXACT same cars that are still in their lineup today that haven't been replaced by the F30 yet.

My point is, BMW was so incredibly far ahead of their competition that it took the competition SIX YEARS to catch up, and those same BMW's are still sold today (coupes have not been F30'd yet).

Today, BMW can't even decisively win a comparo with their brand new F30. Can you imagine how bad this platform is going to be in six years? There is zero chance of BMW following the same tactic that they did with the e90's of selling the same car with minimal LCI improvements. If they do that, they will just get completely obliterated by the competition.

For example, Cadillac's new 420hp V6. That's not even the top of the line "V" engine and it makes more power than the M3.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 10:59 AM   #30
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
50
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
My letter to the editor on that one actually made it into print:

"The ATS, which 'recalibrated your scale' for handling, lost to the 328i based on styling, trunk and rear-seat space? Is this Car and Driver or Couch and Passenger?!"

Winning on points, but losing on what matters, is no win that I'd be proud of...

It was also substantially quicker in every measure and the ATS had a terrible gearbox which can be a deal breaker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
+ infinity.

Not sure why people don't get this. If you bought a BMW for trunk space, electronic features, etc, YOU GOT SCREWED. There are numerous brands, including Japanese and Korean, that outperform BMW on those metrics.

It used to be that you bought BMW for the steering feel and performance, which was their strong point.

But really, this is very simple to illustrate. In 2007, the BMW 335 had 300 horsepower, the exact same engine that they still use today (335is), with all of the fit and finish and gizmos that they currently have. With minimal LCI improvements, BMW was selling the EXACT same cars that are still in their lineup today that haven't been replaced by the F30 yet.

My point is, BMW was so incredibly far ahead of their competition that it took the competition SIX YEARS to catch up, and those same BMW's are still sold today (coupes have not been F30'd yet).

Today, BMW can't even decisively win a comparo with their brand new F30. Can you imagine how bad this platform is going to be in six years? There is zero chance of BMW following the same tactic that they did with the e90's of selling the same car with minimal LCI improvements. If they do that, they will just get completely obliterated by the competition.

For example, Cadillac's new 420hp V6. That's not even the top of the line "V" engine and it makes more power than the M3.
There are 100 reasons to buy a car. There were reasons for plenty of people(like me) not to buy an E90. With the E90, I basically felt I had to have a 335(which made no sense next to my E36/7) as the 328 was down on power and NA bolt ons lead to almost nowhere. I found the backseat and trunk size an issue and overall the car just felt a bit too small to be my DD(which was to replace my larger CC 2.0T 6mt APR'd).


Why are you hungup that the E92 is still being sold? Since back in the E46 days, the coupes and verts always had a longer shelf life compared to the sedan. This is how BMW has done it for nearly 15 years.


Does it give up SOME things to an E90, yes. But it gets a lot of other things in return. Magazine racing and hypotheticals are one thing, but when you BUY a new car you take into account the whole picture. The F30 is just the right size, a bit smaller than the E39, bigger than the E90, 30% stiffer, insanely fuel efficient, VERY torque'y and finally an aftermarket with real power options thanks to FI, and it's great looking in MSport with Eb2 even if some people are still hung up on he lights touching the grill lol.

Say what you want about the F30 compared to your E90's which if often from people who have not driven one, or those who drove a crappy loaner for a day(If your car has Sport suspension, even the F30 Sport suspension is not as stiff, you need the Mperformance suspension to =E90 Sports), but the fact is the F30 328 is still the best choice in the segment according to professionals and people test driving the competition. Me, the only car that could have tempted me was an ATS 2.0T 6mt as it has an LSD and Brembos.

To your quote:

Today, BMW can't even decisively win a comparo with their brand new F30.


Not including the ATS win mentioned above...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...bmw-328i-sedan

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...an_comparison/

From that 8 car test, this quote:

"This is not just a win for the 328i; it's a massacre. A slaughter. Doomsday. Armageddon. I say this with a straight face: There is no competition. Not only was the BMW's first-place finish never in question, but I can't remember a comparison test with such lopsided results. Honestly, we had a hard time finding bad things to say. Aside from the as-tested price (see above!)"
__________________
'98 M Roadster S/C @11-16ps
'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt Aero+ Tuned

Last edited by Jamesons Viggen; 05-03-2013 at 11:08 AM.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 11:04 AM   #31
paradoxical3
Captain
14
Rep
663
Posts

 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
It was also substantially quicker in every measure and the ATS had a terrible gearbox which can be a deal breaker.


There are 100 reasons to buy a car. There were reasons for plenty of people(like me) not to buy an E90. With the E90, I basically felt I had to have a 335(which made no sense next to my E36/7) as the 328 was down on power and NA bolt ons lead to almost nowhere. I found the backseat and trunk size an issue and overall the car just felt a bit too small to be my DD(which was to replace my larger CC 2.0T 6mt APR'd).


Why are you hungup that the E92 is still being sold? Since back in the E46 days, the coupes and verts always had a longer shelf life compared to the sedan. This is how BMW has done it for nearly 15 years.


Does it give up SOME things to an E90, yes. But it gets a lot of other things in return. Magazine racing and hypotheticals are one thing, but when you BUY a new car you take into account the whole picture. The F30 is just the right size, a bit smaller than the E39, bigger than the E90, 30% stiffer, insanely fuel efficient, VERY torque'y and finally an aftermarket with real power options thanks to FI, and it's great looking in MSport with Eb2 even if some people are still hung up on he lights touching the grill lol.

Say what you want about the F30 compared to your E90's which if often from people who have not driven one, or those who drove a crappy loaner for a day(If your car has Sport suspension, even the F30 Sport suspension is not as stiff, you need the Mperformance suspension to =E90 Sports), but the fact is the F30 328 is still the best choice in the segment according to professionals and people test driving the competition. Me, the only car that could have tempted me was an ATS 2.0T 6mt as it has an LSD and Brembos.
I'm not hung up on the fact that the e90 is still sold. I'm hung up on the fact that it's the same exact car that it was six years ago and it's STILL winning comparo's, while the F30 can't even win one at the beginning of it's lifespan. When the e90 335 came out, no competitor was within 50hp or even in the same performance league. Right now, the F30 is actually underpowered a bit.

I don't own a e90 and have been driving a F30 328 for nearly two months now as a loaner. I drove a base one for a month and my current one is a sports model with paddle shifters (not m sport). I hate it.

You realize that the base price with NO OPTIONS besides leather for a 328 m sport is 43,625? If you've ever driven a non M-sport 328 you will quickly understand that quite literally a honda accord has superior steering feel and handling.

So in order to get a car that handles "almost" as good as the last gen $30,000 328, you now have to spend $43,625 - and that's before options. To get a decently specced out 328 m sport, you're paying 50-60k for a car with 240 horsepower. That's just atrocious. You realize that you can get a base M3 for that, let alone a brand new loaded last gen 335.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #32
Red Bread
Brigadier General
United_States
45
Rep
4,356
Posts

 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
You realize that the base price with NO OPTIONS besides leather for a 328 m sport is 43,625? If you've ever driven a non M-sport 328 you will quickly understand that quite literally a honda accord has superior steering feel and handling.

So in order to get a car that handles "almost" as good as the last gen $30,000 328, you now have to spend $43,625 - and that's before options. To get a decently specced out 328 m sport, you're paying 50-60k for a car with 240 horsepower. That's just atrocious. You realize that you can get a base M3 for that, let alone a brand new loaded last gen 335.
Do you have a life guard nearby? You've quite clearly gone off the deep end.

I don't recall the last time a 3er was near $30k, but I think it was during the E46 days, or possible the E36 ti days. As for a fwd car handling better than a 3er, regardless of options, I'm sure you're just trying to raise eyebrows, but come on.

I'm not a huge F30 fan, but I also didn't really care for the E90. The E84 was purchased after being disappointed with the size and softness of the F30 and the previous E82 was purchased after being disappointed with the style and size of the E92. BMW going to a million models is certainly confusing, but they are selling more cars and they are offering more diversified products. I think your frustration, like mine, will be greatly alleviated when the 2GC arrives.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #33
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
50
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

How do you mean the E90 is STILL winning comparos.

Again, check my edit as you are very wrong that the F30 is not winning comparos.

Your Honda Accord statement is silly. Have you driven a '13 Accord Sport? I have. Great car. For it's class and for FWD. It's inherent design makes it very different from any RWD 3 series in terms of steering and handling.

The 335 though, I agree with you. It had power over the competition and it had the handling. The problem is, magazines are noting the handling is not improved over the 328, but in fact worse. Add that to the fact that the 328 has closed much of the power gap and the 335's competition has gotten better, and well it means the 328 might be doing a better job of selling the F30 than the 335. Examples:

"As for the BMW, well, since we first drove the new 335i, no one on staff has been particularly smitten. The consensus is that the 328i is a better-driving car."

"Part of the problem is that, while the 328i's suspension feels properly tuned, the 335i's feels as if BMW just dropped in a heavier, more powerful engine and didn't bother recalibrating anything"

"3rd Place: BMW 335i Sport
Expensive, though the underrated engine does give you loads of power. Damping rates too soft for a car with so much grunt."

-MotorTrend 2/13

Notes: They mentioned how the 328 dominated the 8 car test:

"When we did that eight-car comparison the 328i won, I remember getting out of the other cars, climbing into the BMW, and thinking, 'This is it. This is how you do it.' I had the same feeling today driving the Cadillac ATS."



The writers go a bit overboard in the declaration again on the Motor Trend blog:

"The 328i is a better car than its sibling, the more powerful, more expensive 2012 BMW 335i."

"The engine is just one more part that makes the 328i feel like the better product. Put another way, the three editors on staff that spent considerable time in each, all preferred the slower, cheaper 328i."

-Motor Trend Written by: Jonny Lieberman on March 7 2012 12:00 PM

Honestly, MotorTrend sounds a bit more neutral with this blurb from their first test of the 335:

"The 335i seems portly -- the scales show 3586 pounds and a front/rear distribution of 51/49 percent -- but that weight actually matches that of the last 335i coupe we tested. Versus the four-cylinder 328i, it carries 100 extra pounds. Where do you think that weight comes from? A hundred points if you guessed the front axle. The added weight is noticeable after back-to-back drives with the 328i, but equally noticeable is the extra forward thrust the 335i so readily supplies. A slightly heavier nose or more power? Decisions, decisions."

-MotorTrend By Carlos Lago | February 28, 2012

Regarding your pricing...

I am a bit odd man out, I got my MSport for $37,xxx. I honestly love it at that price, but as the price goes up, say $45-55k, I am not smitten any longer. I find that true of the competition too though. I agree with you, mainly when you get to a $60k+ 335, I would rather have an M3. The only reason I did not buy an M3 is the sedan is gone and I cannot justify 20mpg out of my DD when my 500hp toy still manages 20mpg. The F80 M3 will likely be worth it for me to be my next DD in 2-3 years.

Also, your idea of x amount of dollars for 240hp. It's not, it's more like 270hp-dyno proven day in and day out. You have a 13.9-14.2 second car, trapping dead near 100mph. Basically you now have E36 M3 numbers from 12 years ago out of the base model 3. That is progress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
I'm not hung up on the fact that the e90 is still sold. I'm hung up on the fact that it's the same exact car that it was six years ago and it's STILL winning comparo's, while the F30 can't even win one at the beginning of it's lifespan. When the e90 335 came out, no competitor was within 50hp or even in the same performance league. Right now, the F30 is actually underpowered a bit.

I don't own a e90 and have been driving a F30 328 for nearly two months now as a loaner. I drove a base one for a month and my current one is a sports model with paddle shifters (not m sport). I hate it.

You realize that the base price with NO OPTIONS besides leather for a 328 m sport is 43,625? If you've ever driven a non M-sport 328 you will quickly understand that quite literally a honda accord has superior steering feel and handling.

So in order to get a car that handles "almost" as good as the last gen $30,000 328, you now have to spend $43,625 - and that's before options. To get a decently specced out 328 m sport, you're paying 50-60k for a car with 240 horsepower. That's just atrocious. You realize that you can get a base M3 for that, let alone a brand new loaded last gen 335.
__________________
'98 M Roadster S/C @11-16ps
'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt Aero+ Tuned
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 01:50 PM   #34
leeroy88
New Member
0
Rep
15
Posts

 
Drives: 1988 325is 1994 325i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Drove an F30 328i for an extended period of time over the course of 3 days. Awesome on the highway. Awesome around town. You wouldn't really know it was a turbo 4. Great car. However the same problems/issues that a e90 328i/330i have. In it's base form it's a little boring. Not inspiring drive. However this has been the case back to the E36. All the base cars from E36 onward have been just a little more boring with each chassis. A stock E30 325i/S is a fun to drive car. You are connected to the driving.

But the M3/M5/Etc always put huge smiles on the face. So I don't think they lost their way. It is very similar with Porsche. Everyone said Porsche died when they made an SUV. It's cars like that that allows Porsche to make GT3s, Turbo 911s and the like. Without mainstream car sales(like X5, 328i and X1) they can't afford to sell cars or develop cars like the M3.

And not sure how everyone thinks the quality is going down. Ever been in the E46/E53/Z4 generation of cars? E36 had their problems and so do other BMWs. But by 50,000 miles the plastic painted surfaces would be literally peeling off. Around the door pulls. Around the window switches. And the door surround/weather sealing just drops as well on the E46. They had plenty of issues with those.

Still think the single best car BMW built is the E39 M5. It has it's E39 chassis problems bur if I could have one car only. E39 M5. Followed by E36 M3 Sedan.

As to the 'horsepower' war. That is on it's way out. The E36 M3 has 240hp in US trim. And it is more fun to drive than ANY new Non-M BMW 3-Series. The E30 325iS had 168hp downhill behind a semi on a good day. And it too is more fun to drive than any new Non-M BMW 3-Series. Horsepower is not the name of the game anymore. Sure a new Accord has 320HP or whatever out of it's FWD V6... but driving one? No thanks. I'd rather have a 190hp 2.8L I6 from BMW.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 02:36 PM   #35
Jamesons Viggen
Brigadier General
United_States
50
Rep
3,573
Posts

 
Drives: '98 M Roadster stg 2+ S/C
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Rochester Hills MI

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroy88 View Post
Drove an F30 328i for an extended period of time over the course of 3 days. Awesome on the highway. Awesome around town. You wouldn't really know it was a turbo 4. Great car. However the same problems/issues that a e90 328i/330i have. In it's base form it's a little boring. Not inspiring drive. However this has been the case back to the E36. All the base cars from E36 onward have been just a little more boring with each chassis. A stock E30 325i/S is a fun to drive car. You are connected to the driving.

But the M3/M5/Etc always put huge smiles on the face. So I don't think they lost their way. It is very similar with Porsche. Everyone said Porsche died when they made an SUV. It's cars like that that allows Porsche to make GT3s, Turbo 911s and the like. Without mainstream car sales(like X5, 328i and X1) they can't afford to sell cars or develop cars like the M3.

And not sure how everyone thinks the quality is going down. Ever been in the E46/E53/Z4 generation of cars? E36 had their problems and so do other BMWs. But by 50,000 miles the plastic painted surfaces would be literally peeling off. Around the door pulls. Around the window switches. And the door surround/weather sealing just drops as well on the E46. They had plenty of issues with those.

Still think the single best car BMW built is the E39 M5. It has it's E39 chassis problems bur if I could have one car only. E39 M5. Followed by E36 M3 Sedan.

As to the 'horsepower' war. That is on it's way out. The E36 M3 has 240hp in US trim. And it is more fun to drive than ANY new Non-M BMW 3-Series. The E30 325iS had 168hp downhill behind a semi on a good day. And it too is more fun to drive than any new Non-M BMW 3-Series. Horsepower is not the name of the game anymore. Sure a new Accord has 320HP or whatever out of it's FWD V6... but driving one? No thanks. I'd rather have a 190hp 2.8L I6 from BMW.

QFT

I find the F30 makes a different impression just from going to base-sport-MSport, let alone moving up to an M3. But I think as you said, that has always been the case.
__________________
'98 M Roadster S/C @11-16ps
'06 Saab 9-5 wagon 5mt Aero+ Tuned
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 08:10 PM   #36
Goat Rodeo
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
240
Posts

 
Drives: '13 M3, '06 M3, '02 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

The E60 M5 and E9X M3 were made in a time of economic prosperity we will likely not see again in our lifetimes. The amount of money BMW spent on the development of those two cars is staggering.

All the new BMWs leave me cold. BMW seems to be trying hard to appeal to everyone; certainly a good sales strategy but the lack of passion is apparent. The 1 feels too cheap and cramped, yet the new 3-series rides like the outgoing 5-series. The new 5-series is beautiful but performance is unremarkable. The new M5 is a big yawn; lots of lazy power with some pumped in sound effects, that's not anything to put up a poster and dream about like I did with the E39. The 6-series has become inoffensively styled cars for the retired set. I rarely see 7-series anymore. And when BMW does introduce at least a somewhat interesting car, such as the M135, they don't bother to bring it to the US.

Other automakers seem to be filling the void. I would take the S6 over any BMW in the new line up. The new Cayman S looks great as well and is getting fantastic reviews; its starting price of 63K will probably be less than the new turbocharged barge M3/M4.

I have a 2013 328 loaner currently. It rides like a 2009 5-series with worn RTABs. You can control throttle lag from minutes to mere seconds with a rocker switch. The steering wheel is a hard plastic throwback to a mid-90s Honda; similarly sized, thin and large. The weighting is a nice compromise but feel is nonexistent. The car has front and back parking sensors; the hood is so wide and tall you cannot see five feet in front of you. As you carefully inch forward in your garage, the engine cuts out due to auto stop-start and the car lurches to a halt. Hope you weren't holding your coffee.

Last edited by Goat Rodeo; 05-03-2013 at 08:17 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-03-2013, 09:25 PM   #37
doverjxp
New Member
0
Rep
26
Posts

 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: May 2013
Location: london

iTrader: (0)

That being said, if you drove a new M5, I think we'd be singing a different tune.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-04-2013, 11:44 AM   #38
Goat Rodeo
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
240
Posts

 
Drives: '13 M3, '06 M3, '02 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doverjxp View Post
That being said, if you drove a new M5, I think we'd be singing a different tune.
I test-drove one before ordering my 2013 M3. It's an excellent car for those who don't really care about driving but who want a really nice car. I assume BMW is targeting those who are cross-shopping the big Mercedes AMGs. On the other hand, it left me cold. The sad part about that is I am relatively apathetic about the E92 as well, I'm on my second one because BMWFS practically gives them away and they make excellent reliable daily drivers for the $$ and are lots of fun up top. But my E46 M3 is so much more involving as a driver's car.

Last edited by Goat Rodeo; 05-04-2013 at 11:49 AM.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 02:43 AM   #39
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
Netherlands
82
Rep
4,696
Posts

 
Drives: AW 1M , Assetto Corsa
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands, Europe

iTrader: (0)

BMW has to go back to smaller, lighter and faster imho. So happy with my current BMW.(My 10th one incl E46 M3 and E90 M3 ) In terms of driving fun it totally smashes any BMW of the last decade maybe except the CSL(but that one had a dramatic gearbox)
My former F30 335i was the biggest mistake I ever made...

BMWs current line up is not interesting. No more real drivers cars. OK a M135i will do but the rest sucks. Too heavy, too remote, not involving enough.

Eagerly awaiting a nice M2...

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 06:06 AM   #40
GeeRam
Captain
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
10
Rep
906
Posts

 
Drives: 135i Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL View Post
BMW has to go back to smaller, lighter and faster imho. So happy with my current BMW.(My 10th one incl E46 M3 and E90 M3 ) In terms of driving fun it totally smashes any BMW of the last decade maybe except the CSL(but that one had a dramatic gearbox)
My former F30 335i was the biggest mistake I ever made...

BMWs current line up is not interesting. No more real drivers cars. OK a M135i will do but the rest sucks. Too heavy, too remote, not involving enough.
Tend to agree with this.

So wished I'd be able to get a 1M.

DCT equipped 135 was still a very acceptable 2nd choice option however, and even at that, I can't see any forthcoming replacement coming from BMW in the near future.
ZF auto option (as opposed to DCT) and electric steering means the M135/M235 is not on my horizon.
M2 might well be, depending on what spec it eventually has, but I suspect by the time that comes out it will be either too expensive for me, or too late.
__________________
2011 135i M-Sport Coupe DCT ~ Bluewater:Coral Red | BMWP CF spoiler & BMWPE | Birds B1 suspension | Forge FMIC | Hartge footrest | Alufelgen CS7 & Pirelli P Zero

2012 Harley Davidson Softail Slim ~ lots of mods
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 07:15 AM   #41
Efthreeoh
Brigadier General
United_States
48
Rep
3,696
Posts

 
Drives: E90
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leeroy88 View Post
Drove an F30 328i for an extended period of time over the course of 3 days. Awesome on the highway. Awesome around town. You wouldn't really know it was a turbo 4. Great car. However the same problems/issues that a e90 328i/330i have. In it's base form it's a little boring. Not inspiring drive. However this has been the case back to the E36. All the base cars from E36 onward have been just a little more boring with each chassis. A stock E30 325i/S is a fun to drive car. You are connected to the driving.

But the M3/M5/Etc always put huge smiles on the face. So I don't think they lost their way. It is very similar with Porsche. Everyone said Porsche died when they made an SUV. It's cars like that that allows Porsche to make GT3s, Turbo 911s and the like. Without mainstream car sales(like X5, 328i and X1) they can't afford to sell cars or develop cars like the M3.

And not sure how everyone thinks the quality is going down. Ever been in the E46/E53/Z4 generation of cars? E36 had their problems and so do other BMWs. But by 50,000 miles the plastic painted surfaces would be literally peeling off. Around the door pulls. Around the window switches. And the door surround/weather sealing just drops as well on the E46. They had plenty of issues with those.

Still think the single best car BMW built is the E39 M5. It has it's E39 chassis problems bur if I could have one car only. E39 M5. Followed by E36 M3 Sedan.

As to the 'horsepower' war. That is on it's way out. The E36 M3 has 240hp in US trim. And it is more fun to drive than ANY new Non-M BMW 3-Series. The E30 325iS had 168hp downhill behind a semi on a good day. And it too is more fun to drive than any new Non-M BMW 3-Series. Horsepower is not the name of the game anymore. Sure a new Accord has 320HP or whatever out of it's FWD V6... but driving one? No thanks. I'd rather have a 190hp 2.8L I6 from BMW.
I disagree with this statement. If you are talking a new F30, then maybe, but I've not driven one, so I can't say. But if you are talking an E90, then I disagree. I spent over 130,000 miles behind the wheel of an 1989 E30 325i with a Bilstein suspension upgrade and I'd say my E90 sport package 325i is just as much fun to drive. The N52 is a far superior engine to the M20. My 2 cents.
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #42
Tacoma
Private First Class
2
Rep
174
Posts

 
Drives: BMW's for 20 years
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuiter23 View Post
Why would anyone need a heavy steering wheel for manoeuvring in the city? Sure, I am fine with it because I am used to it but it is just not practical. This is not to say that the handling is not precise, the wheel is just lighter which makes commuting in traffic easier.

The only time you need a wheel with substantial weight is when the car is driven around the track and at higher speeds in which the sport mode is engaged. ...
I've been a BMW enthusiast going back almost 20 years posting on many boards like bimmer.org, Roadfly, E46fanatics and the un-moderated profanity-laced Usenet boards. Not to mention posting on mbworld.org or audiworld.com to spread the BMW love.

For a good part of those 20 years, hardcore fanatics preached the superiority of bimmers and slammed other brands and saying things like "why would anyone buy a 4-cyl when you can get a smooth silky inline-6?" Or "Turbocharging?... BMW would never do that!" Or "they don't even offer a manual gearbox, they're just pretenders!"... Or when you drive a BMW, there's great road-feel like you're connected, not like Lexus/MB that tries to isolate you with light disconnected steering, etc.

Circa 2013 and BMW is touting turbos as the greatest thing since sliced bread and 4-cyl as the future and reports say the next future M5 will not be offering manual transmission at all... etc. Things that were once considered blasphemy are now being praised by some BMW enthusiasts (or at least some on this board).

When you have posters like cuiter23 supporting BMW by preaching that lighter steering is good to make commuting in traffic easier, it's clear that even BMW enthusiasts are leaning toward the center masses. These are things you only used to hear in audiworld.org or Club Lexus boards.

When the Lexus IS wins a comparison over the F30 because the Lexus is said to be more "fun to drive" in the unabashedly BMW loving Car & Driver magazine, you know things are different now - a paradigm shift, almost.

Anyway, just reminiscing. And I never thought I'd say this, but as a proud owner of BMW's from E36 to E92, my next car may not be a BMW. I'm waiting to see if the upcoming F80 goes back to its roots of the E46 days as has been reported.
Appreciate 1
      05-05-2013, 11:43 AM   #43
williakz
Banned
1
Rep
119
Posts

 
Drives: Lexus LS460
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: AL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
And I never thought I'd say this, but as a proud owner of BMW's from E36 to E92, my next car may not be a BMW.
Yeah, you can go get yourself a REAL car, a driver's car, like a ..., hang on a sec, like a ..., gimme a minute, like a ...
Appreciate 0
      05-05-2013, 06:17 PM   #44
Fitz335
Private First Class
Fitz335's Avatar
1
Rep
196
Posts

 
Drives: 2007 335i Black
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sicily

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 335i  [0.00]
I dunno, I for one am excited for the new Inline 6 twin turbo M4, then again I'm a 335i guy.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST