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      05-02-2013, 01:16 PM   #23
whats77inaname
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meez View Post
I have driven similar ESS and Gintani supercharged cars (albeit, NOT on the track).
50lbs of weight is a *big* difference to me. Corky Bell once told me that one of the fastest ways to increase power is to decrease weight, and that's something that I take into consideration in every build I've worked on. And yeah, there are people that don't view it as that big of a deal, especially when you consider that you're off-setting that weight w/add'l power, but 50lbs is 50lbs, especially given that the M3 isn't exactly light.

I am *really* keen to find out how much each of the manis weigh, although I'm sure that's a subject for a new thread.
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      05-02-2013, 01:52 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
50lbs of weight is a *big* difference to me. Corky Bell once told me that one of the fastest ways to increase power is to decrease weight, and that's something that I take into consideration in every build I've worked on. And yeah, there are people that don't view it as that big of a deal, especially when you consider that you're off-setting that weight w/add'l power, but 50lbs is 50lbs, especially given that the M3 isn't exactly light.

I am *really* keen to find out how much each of the manis weigh, although I'm sure that's a subject for a new thread.
Wow. Haven't heard that name in years.
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      05-02-2013, 01:53 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
50lbs of weight is a *big* difference to me. Corky Bell once told me that one of the fastest ways to increase power is to decrease weight, and that's something that I take into consideration in every build I've worked on.
I think you'd be stupid not to take weight into consideration.
Then again, you bought the heaviest M3 ever produced..... You can argue both ways on whether you should care more or care less about the cars weight.

Shedding weight on a luxury car sucks. Because you have to give up a commodity most of the time. This is a luxury car, and I did not buy it solely for a weekend warrior. It is the ultimate in daily driving comfort and weekend excitement, and adding any forced induction will surely give this heavy/torqueless car an 'exotic' feel.

All these supercharger debates come down to personal preference. You have to be comfortable with everything before you throw down the green. I was 100% comfortable with my due diligence into the VF kit, and it wasn't total wallet destruction either.
Godspeed.
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      05-02-2013, 01:58 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Wow. Haven't heard that name in years.
Met him quite by accident back in my younger days. Didn't realize *who* he was when I walked into his shop, and didn't realize that I had such a valuable resource in my home town until many years later. Awesome guy, great books!

Quote:
Originally Posted by meez View Post
I think you'd be stupid not to take weight into consideration.
Then again, you bought the heaviest M3 ever produced..... You can argue both ways on whether you should care more or care less about the cars weight.

Shedding weight on a luxury car sucks. Because you have to give up a commodity most of the time. This is a luxury car, and I did not buy it solely for a weekend warrior. It is the ultimate in daily driving comfort and weekend excitement, and adding any forced induction will surely give this heavy/torqueless car an 'exotic' feel.

All these supercharger debates come down to personal preference. You have to be comfortable with everything before you throw down the green. I was 100% comfortable with my due diligence into the VF kit, and it wasn't total wallet destruction either.
Godspeed.
Yes, it's the heaviest produced, but the allure of the last V8 M3, in sedan form no less, was too much to pass up *lol*. Agreed about the personal preference thing. There are bits and pieces of each that I like/dislike, so due diligence is a must in this situation.
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      05-02-2013, 02:42 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Yes, it's the heaviest produced, but the allure of the last V8 M3, in sedan form no less, was too much to pass up *lol*. Agreed about the personal preference thing. There are bits and pieces of each that I like/dislike, so due diligence is a must in this situation.
DAT SEDAN
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      05-02-2013, 02:55 PM   #28
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My 2 cents would be that it is easier to sell a car with an ESS kit because they have been on the E9X M scene for so much longer than VF, with that people aren't too familiar and might not trust the brand. Personally, I believe all SC brands for our cars are wicked, yes there have been problems with a couple but you cannot blame that on the company.

It's just like when my engine blew, doesn't mean the whole of BMW brand turned to sh*t, just the fact that the engine was not up to par.
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      05-02-2013, 02:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic View Post
My 2 cents would be that it is easier to sell a car with an ESS kit because they have been on the E9X M scene for so much longer than VF, with that people aren't too familiar and might not trust the brand. Personally, I believe all SC brands for our cars are wicked, yes there have been problems with a couple but you cannot blame that on the company.

It's just like when my engine blew, doesn't mean the whole of BMW brand turned to sh*t, just the fact that the engine was not up to par.
What happen to ur motor?
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      05-02-2013, 03:37 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by =[monkey]= View Post
What happen to ur motor?
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569512
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      05-02-2013, 08:11 PM   #31
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Some enthusiasts contacted us about selling their VF540 kits. One mentioned he was would be moving into a GTR for more traction. Another was selling his VF540 kit and upgrading with a used VF620 kit (from an insurance total loss part out). 2 other VF owners were parting out their builds due to lease end. 2 kits were advertized twice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Had a chance to take the ESS 625 on Buttonwillow during the Speed District event (over 3 hours of track time) and was very pleased with the performance. Midrange power was more responsive, no hiccups during acceleration and shedding about 50lbs (VF systems are a bit on the heavy side) from the nose are all benefits.

During post-track inspection - I was pleased not to see any engine codes stored at all, something that I haven't seen in a long time.

I'd rather not get into the VF vs ESS debate, there are plenty of those threads elsewhere.
In response to the feedback quoted from EAS above, to be fair, their car did not run on our latest 240E software and was never updated since it was flashed about 1 year ago.
To clarify the weight differences: the non-intercooled VF manifold and bracket only weighs 4.2 lbs (four point two) more than the ESS equivalent components.

Last edited by VF-Engineering; 05-02-2013 at 10:14 PM.
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      05-03-2013, 11:42 AM   #32
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Robert, you update your customers to the 240E software before flashing in the supercharger tune file?

Are stored engine codes different from CELs? More like a pending code? Curious to know what to expect.
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      05-03-2013, 11:52 AM   #33
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Yes, we update all our customers ecu’s with the factory 240E software before the 240E supercharger software.

Engine codes are different from CELs. Certain engine codes will cause a CEL to appear and some engine codes will cause a CEL to appear after a specific number of occurrences. Pending codes are different and refer to an occurrence of a “function plausibility error” before a code is stored.
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      05-03-2013, 04:17 PM   #34
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1500 miles on my kit. No SES!
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      05-03-2013, 04:51 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM3 View Post
Hi meez, I read your post about the 540 kit, correct me if I'm wrong does the 540 kit work without an inter cooler ?
And what's the deal on the S/C?
Thanks man
Sam
I also had te chance to test drive ess 550. Ess. 650. Aa Stsge 2 e92 m3s and I love my Vf kit. I don't know what people are looking for. Anther debate. ?all Kits are very similar in performance and all put excess strain on the motor. If you decide to boost your m prepare for additional expenses associated with more power. Vf 540 kit is a great entry level unit. Vf had many sales for the last few months and managed to intice people into purchasing a supercharger. Some change their mind some decide to go with a larger 620 kit. price of a new 620 kit was less then to upgrade the entry level 540 kit. Therefore placing the entry level kit on the for sale forum.
In regards to eas swapping their kit people should know there are always incentives for shops to promote certain products. secondly eas and ess have alot more in common then people are aware off.
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      05-03-2013, 04:55 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longbow64 View Post
1500 miles on my kit. No SES!

I already got you beat with my VF540 drive from SoCal back home to central Texas but you also went to Las Vegas
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      05-03-2013, 05:09 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriskm3 View Post
In regards to eas swapping their kit people should know there are always incentives for shops to promote certain products. secondly eas and ess have alot more in common then people are aware off.
Only those that have firsthand experience (more than a simple test drive) with both kits should be making these types of claims.

Glad you are happy with your kit.
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      05-03-2013, 05:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Only those that have firsthand experience (more than a simple test drive) with both kits should be making these types of claims.

Glad you are happy with your kit.
I stand corrected. Friends of mine own those cars so daily feedback is common. I agree with you Tom. A simple test drive is meaningless, but considering my circumstances I have good exposure to lots of ess products and other types of goodies threw out BMW group and Bimmersport. I hold alot of respect of ess for putting out 709 whp beasts. .
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      05-03-2013, 06:04 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHADY1 View Post
I already got you beat with my VF540 drive from SoCal back home to central Texas but you also went to Las Vegas
We're all going to Vegas soon! This time with the cars
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      05-03-2013, 06:18 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Only those that have firsthand experience (more than a simple test drive) with both kits should be making these types of claims.

Glad you are happy with your kit.
The EAS car was never updated with the official production software, at their request.

The VF kit does not weigh 50 lbs more than the ESS kit as EAS stated. It weighs 4 lbs more.

Lets allow the enthusiasts to do the talking, and lets all enjoy our cars together.
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      05-03-2013, 06:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VF-Engineering View Post
The EAS car was never updated with the official production software, at their request.

The VF kit does not weigh 50 lbs more than the ESS kit as EAS stated. It weighs 4 lbs more.

Lets allow the enthusiasts to do the talking, and lets all enjoy our cars together.
Weights were provided by ESS, but we'll be sure to validate as soon as the VF540 is pulled off.

I chose not to upgrade because VF production software was very buggy, even in "final" form. We were constantly dealing with customer complains from constant limp modes, CELs, and numerous codes - sometimes 3 pages long in reports.

I am an enthusiast, and our opinion counts also. I have been trying my best to stay civil on this matter, but we certainly have enough history to fully explain our side if provoked.

Food for thought. Have a great weekend.
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      05-03-2013, 07:06 PM   #42
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Not trying to start a debate but...if your company knew about 3 pages of bugs with the software not in "final" form why would you choose it? Also ESS kits were around before VF right? Why then would EAS just pick the kit it thought was better in its opinion from the beginning? Like I said just asking questions. Im new here was going to go SC'd now Im backing out completely because of post like this. Im new to the M3 world and finding out really quick the Evo world offered alot more bang for the buck. No disrespect.
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      05-03-2013, 07:16 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Weights were provided by ESS, but we'll be sure to validate as soon as the VF540 is pulled off.

I chose not to upgrade because VF production software was very buggy, even in "final" form. We were constantly dealing with customer complains from constant limp modes, CELs, and numerous codes - sometimes 3 pages long in reports.

I am an enthusiast, and our opinion counts also. I have been trying my best to stay civil on this matter, but we certainly have enough history to fully explain our side if provoked.

Food for thought. Have a great weekend.
I'd like to know the percentage of customers that purchased a VF kit through EAS that had these issues.
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      05-03-2013, 09:37 PM   #44
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Now it's getting good. Dek25, early on, it seemed that VF and EAS were co-developing the SC kit. Just an observation. No inside knowledge or anything.
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