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      03-17-2013, 06:55 PM   #45
M3takesNYC
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Sure its slightly edges out torque to the wheels and I mean indistinguisably slightly. By 3rd (a common around town driving gear) the m3 puts down more torque to the wheels in every gear above 3rd.

So your statement about the isf having so much more torque and so much better around town is clearly just dead wrong. can you atleast admit that?
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      03-17-2013, 07:36 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
So your statement about the isf having so much more torque and so much better around town is clearly just dead wrong. can you atleast admit that?
I think everyone wishes you would stop posting this bs

Bottom line , m3 is inferior to cars like the isf / c63 / 1M etc for torque below say 4000 rpm. You know, the rpms you actually drive at on the street?

I owned an m3 for a year. Have driven an isf and c63. Now own a 1m. Torque at rpms below 4k (and even higher since my 1m has more torque and whp than a stock m3) is much more pronounced in all of these cars than the m3. The m3 makes very little hp or torque before 4k rpms. Despite aggressive gear ratios.
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      03-17-2013, 09:44 PM   #47
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Well its your imagination. Look at the numbers I posted and those don't lie. Use the gear ratios and engine torque numbers and you will see the isf and m3 put down nearly idencital torque to the ground in gears 1 and 2. M3 puts more down in 3rd and above.

So while your subjective opinion is fine, I posted stats and numbers that are completely objective.

It even falls more in favor of the m3 if you look at the powerbands specifically. The ISf drops of from peak torque like an avalanche and thus if you take into account about 320 which it drop down to quickly, the m3 really puts a lot more down to the ground.

1M is a different story down low
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      03-17-2013, 09:59 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
Thanks for the compliments. I reread my post and it sounds kind of douchey LOL. Didn't mean to come out that way.

I DD the Turbo because it's newer and has awd and snow tires. And since I paid a lot for it, I'm going to get my money's out of it. I actually had sold the F and had seller's remorse and rebought the same one again. LOL. Missed the uncorked V8 sound. Turbo sounds good but so does an uncorked V8. I'm keeping the F for tinkering and tracking. It's slower and easier to drive and it's safer due to the slight understeering vs. the Turbo. Plus I don't get track insurance and I don't need to total the Turbo. I'm still a relative novice at road racing. I'm at the 3 minute/lap at autobahn country club level but that's with traffic and needing to be waved by. Last time I went, only the C6 and Z06 corvettes weren't passable in the 'novice' group. I'm going to intermediate group this coming year.

Look at those ratios. Yeah, the F is taller in the first two gears - but if you take the ratio of the torque of both engines and the ratio of those gears, the IS-F actually has more torque to the wheels in the first two gears ---> in a rolling start, the F will beat an M3. DCT having launch control (allowing for a clutch drop) and a manual M3 (with a clutch drop) will take off faster from a dig. Having said that, any car doing 0-60 in 4.0 seconds is more a test of traction so all this is a moot point anyways. FWIW, mine did 3.7 0-60 with a 1 foot rollout at the dragstrip with mickey thompsons. On the street with NO rollout, it gets 4.0 with sticky mickeys. With PSS, I might get lucky if I break 4.3. These are with VBOX. I also trap 120.1 according to VBOX in the 1/4 and my scale (I have a set of balancing scales) says my F weighs 3523 pounds lightly fueled (drag race trim). But FULL interior just gutted trunk. Mods are headers, exhaust, coilovers, wheels, brake rotors and lithium battery. Last time at the strip, I ran an E60M5 SMG II and trapped 2 mph faster so I was walking him. So it makes sense since I'm about 470 hp and he was 500 but my car was about 500 pounds less.

I might not be driving an M3 around, but that doesn't disqualify me from being a car enthusiast. And, FWIW, I do have an M - just an SUV and it's our family car, wife's pick-up-the-kids car.

It's a Marketing car. Not an M car.
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      03-17-2013, 11:01 PM   #49
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I know it's a marketing car. BMW did just fine in targeting people like my wife. Wife wants fat tires, wants the exclusivity, wanted an SUV. I bought it so she wouldn't get mad at me for getting a Porsche for myself on Valentine's Day LOL.
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      03-17-2013, 11:28 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Sure its slightly edges out torque to the wheels and I mean indistinguisably slightly. By 3rd (a common around town driving gear) the m3 puts down more torque to the wheels in every gear above 3rd.

So your statement about the isf having so much more torque and so much better around town is clearly just dead wrong. can you atleast admit that?

So first gear wins for IS-F by about 10% (significant), 2nd gear is a wash, and 3rd gear is an advantage for the M3 DCT. Even the youtube videos pretty much show that in races from a dig, the F always gets the M at the get go. Launch control is rarely used. That's some seriously close ratio gears. 7th is 1:1 whereas 6th is 1:1 for the F. Geez, no wonder M3 only gets 14-15 mpg (in suburb driving) while the F gets 18-19 mpg. You really need to do a complete torque to wheels vs. MPH chart. Also keep in mind that the F's tires are slightly smaller in diameter too. I don't have the time and I can't locate actual torque numbers vs rpm anywhere on google.

Having said that, this is so stupid. We seriously are arguing what amounts to probably a less than 1% difference in power/speed/accel. Like I said, it's a driver's race and who the fatter driver or who has more gas in the tank type of race.

But, I still think the F is the better DD. I didn't say track car or canyon carving car. I said DD. Less gas, more reliable (I don't want to argue about reliability with you. Everybody in the world knows Lexus>BMW in reliability). Can you at least admit that?
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      03-25-2013, 03:25 PM   #51
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Get a G37 IPL.
...jk

As others said, don't get another M3. Mix it up! I personally don't like the ISF. But I've also never driven it before. I was going to suggest checking out an RS4, but I see that you want an automatic.

Which leads me to my vote: C63! The fact that it doesn't come in stick is the biggest reason I wouldn't get one (aside from the looks). So if somebody made me get an auto, I'd see it as God himself telling me to get the AMG.

Also, I would look into a 335d. In red. My friend has one, and I like it. Great gas mileage (he sometimes gets 40) and torque available almost immediately in the rev range. Although it does only rev to around 5,500 and it sounds pretty uneventful on the way there.

PS: Or you could get a clean E36 M3 sedan in auto and spend the rest on modding the bejesus out of your cars!
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      03-26-2013, 02:52 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwlmd View Post
Get rid of them both and grab an F10 M5. Done.
exactly
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      04-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #53
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I was actually thinking of purchasing ToothDocs IS-F when he traded it in for the Turbo. His IS-F is beautiful. Nicer than my e92 I'd have to admit. Couldn't get the numbers to work + he ended up buying it back lol. I really wish these IS-F's didnt hold their value so well!

Hey Tooth if you end up getting sick of the IS-F anytime soon let me know - an aspiring dentist

OP- Go out and test drive the cars out there, you will know which one is right for you. Also, I like exclusivity. There are far too many C63's and M3's in my area... but yes... there might be a reason why!
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      04-08-2013, 06:59 PM   #54
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Two things are blatantly apparent in this thread.

One, buying an E90 when you have an E92 is dumb. If you love the E90, then sell your E92 and get something more hardcore for the track.

Two, dentists are paid WAY too much

c
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      04-08-2013, 07:09 PM   #55
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If r looking to diversify c63. My buddy (is-f owner) says u cannot ECU tune an IS-F, that's why guys r ditching them.
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      04-10-2013, 10:28 AM   #56
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If you want a reliable sport sedan then get the IS-F, its basically a toyota and you don't have to worry about it for 5-10 years. I test drove a 2012 IS-F although it lacks the soul of the M3 or the brutal character of the C63 it still does the job done. Plus it act like a luxury sedan when you are not going at it. Lexus-quiet...
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      04-12-2013, 04:53 PM   #57
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C63 hands down.
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      04-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #58
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Having owned a 6 speed 2009 E90 M3 then a 2011 C63 and i am back in a DCT E92 M3. I can say the C63 is better for DD since its a bit more comfortable and the transmission is silky smooth compared to the DCT or 6 speed from BMW. You do sacrifice something with the C63 and that is fuel economy, if you dont mind that get the C63. I havent owned a IS-F but drove one, i hated the obnoxious beeps for shifting, i hated the brake and steering feel as well and the transmission almost always struggled to find the right gear while in D.

-If you want a drivers car get the E-90 M3 (Though i would not since you already own a E-92) Keep in mind suspension and gearboxes are rougher than in the C63.

-If you want power and comfort and dont mind sacrificing these things for fuel efficiency get the C63.

-If you are a hipster and think the C63 and M3 are too mainstream get the IS-F.
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      04-15-2013, 11:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRonM3n View Post
letting go of my dd 2003 evo ....need a sedan beside my MR e92...getting good feedback on merc and Lexus .....but whenever I'm seeing e90 of members here....giving me hard time to decide....dont need a new car...any help ...i will appreciate it....
Get an M3 so that you can use your M3 on the weekends.
Lol.

M3 dd and m3 weekend warrior.

M3 and m3 > m3 and c63 LOL
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      04-16-2013, 10:47 AM   #60
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All cars are outrageously reliable, except one issue with C63's, and the C63 is going to be at the gas station a lot. It gets the worst mpg out of all of them.

I know cause I used to have one.

It also needs tires every 5-8k even if babied.

Go check out MBWorld.

Also, the C63 has a known head bolt issue that will hydrolock the engine, and is very unavoidable unless you purchase a 2011+, which will most definitely be 50k+

I'd never own a C63 out of warranty, but I would on the ISF or M3.

Really it chalks up to this.

ISF - Most reliable under performer
C63 - Most expensive least reliable
M3 - Best performer, quite reliable, not bad on maintenance
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      04-16-2013, 10:48 AM   #61
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oh yeah, and the C63 trans is pretty awful and laggy
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      04-20-2013, 10:14 AM   #62
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This talk of the M3 vs ISF is interesting. I sold my 2011 e90 M3 almost a year ago because I needed a fast DD because of a new job and am currently driving an Evo X MR. Nothing wrong with the Evo, actually a very impressive car for the 26k I bought it for, but I really miss the M3. At some point this year I am going to sell the Evo since I now have a company car and have been looking at e92 M3s and some other cars.

The Lexus ISF has always jumped out at me, don't know why but I think it's a pretty sweet car besides those quad tips. Guess I will have to drive one to see if I really like it. There will always be the battle of the e9X M3 vs Lexus ISF. People who like BMWs will always say the M is better where Lexus guys will say the ISF is better. One thing I don't get is all these people saying the M3 will out perform the ISF. Both the M3 and ISF with a few bolt on mods will run low 12's/high 11's and from all that I have read the ISF is just as good on the track as the M3. Where it really gets criticism is for it's supposed lack of feel on the road.

I agree with everyone though, the M3's lack of torque is pretty obvious and you have to drive it around like a race car to really make the car move. I was still averaging close to 20mpg driving around in race car mode though
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      04-20-2013, 10:21 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobs619 View Post
If r looking to diversify c63. My buddy (is-f owner) says u cannot ECU tune an IS-F, that's why guys r ditching them.
Yep but I have seen dyno graphs where an air intake and exhaust alone on an ISF will get you anywhere from 30-40whp. I guess the ECU is pretty good at adapting to the mods.
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      04-27-2013, 05:02 AM   #64
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Corners? Go for M3. Straight line ? Go for C63. Owned C63 and currently M3, as a dd c63 will be a great car. Drove an IS-F and to me its not a sports car at all. Doesnt have the sharp handling of the m3 or c63 with the crazy wheel spin when you step on the paddle also the exhaust gargle. IS-F is a comfortable fast car with decent handling
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