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      04-03-2013, 10:15 AM   #45
///M Power-Belgium
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[quote=W///;13749713]All plugs I've seen in this thread looks fine, apart from the OP. Saying it's in "really bad condition" is not correct in my opinion.

I really regret that i not took pictures of my spark plugs and throw them in my garbage can !
But i'm 100 % sure that they looked not so black by the build up,actualy i had also build up and that is normal,but my build up was gray and not so coal black and also not this amount of build up
This was last year,and next time when i change my spark plugs....i will be back,and with pics.
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      04-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I'm curious what they will answer to your Email...IF... they anwser ?!?!(when yes...please let us know)
BTW....good written of you
I will keep you up to date as and when (and if) I get a response.

I took these pics last night and it's very hard to measure the gaps unless you have some precision measuring tools.

For the new plug look at the measure on the caliper. Also if you compare the new with old there is hardly any wear in the used plugs. It's very very hard to see.
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      04-03-2013, 07:28 PM   #47
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Got plugs changed today but dealer told me they needed to keep them for warranty purposes. Sounded odd but OK.....anyway the car has 29k on the clock and I can definitely feel a much better response from the throttle...........Phil
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      04-03-2013, 08:03 PM   #48
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I will keep you up to date as and when (and if) I get a response.

I took these pics last night and it's very hard to measure the gaps unless you have some precision measuring tools.


Thanks man. I wonder where the "wear" is on these plugs and the early change out requirement.
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      04-04-2013, 06:46 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I'm curious what they will answer to your Email...IF... they anwser ?!?!(when yes...please let us know)
BTW....good written of you
I got a response today along with the attachment. Very interesting reading. Also read the attachment.

"Thank you for your feedback on the use of the BP Ultimate Petrol.
Without seeing the pictures I can provide the most likely cause of the condition you are seeing

Fouling of spark plugs with blak oily material indicates

1) too much fuel in the combustion chamber
2) burning oil due to sticking oil control ring


If your plus are fouled with a black carbon then I attribute the condition of your spark plugs to number 1 for the following reasons

Your mileage is 37,000 km in 5 years which is 7000km per year or 140 km per week or 20 km per day

Cars of this type will run fuel rich for the first 10 to 15 km of operation while they heat up the catalytic converter to reduce exhaust emissions

Typically it means that your car is running with a rich fuel mix a lot of the time It also means that you are keeping fuel in the vehicle tank for a long time and under those conditions and especially with high ambient temperatures such as Perth has experienced this summer the fuel will get older more quickly which means it gets heavier and the fuel mixture becomes richer and results in spark plug fouling. I have attached a document that describes this.
If that is the case then with the onset of winter there will be no further issues, for future summers which are likely to be hotter then filling when the tank is half full will prevent this problem.

In my experience the condition you describe is typical of cars that have low mileage for their age irrespective of which fuel they use and I can say that it would have been worse if you were using a lower octane fuel.
Another solution is to fit a hotter spark plug which will burn off the carbon and it would be useful to discuss this with your service agent.

I hope that his has answered your question satisfactorily.

name deleted

Technical Manager
BP Australia"
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File Type: pdf Petrol Life in vehicle tanksv4.pdf (77.3 KB, 76 views)
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      04-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #50
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Interesting...all this !
Last year i have done only 6,000 KM and now my car is for more than 3 months in hibernation,so the proof will be...the next time i change my spark plugs !
BTW....aussiem3....THX ...for posting all this
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      04-04-2013, 05:22 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Interesting...all this !
Last year i have done only 6,000 KM and now my car is for more than 3 months in hibernation,so the proof will be...the next time i change my spark plugs !
BTW....aussiem3....THX ...for posting all this
I had another short email from BP Australia, and according to that this issue is not widespread in Europe because a component called ethers is used in the fuel there and also the cooler climate compared to Australia enable the oxygenation to last longer. It also advises for driving behaviour like mine, to change oil every six months. Some car manufacturers recommend this according to BP Australia. May be this is to counter sludge build-up.
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      04-05-2013, 10:15 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
I had another short email from BP Australia, and according to that this issue is not widespread in Europe because a component called ethers is used in the fuel there and also the cooler climate compared to Australia enable the oxygenation to last longer. It also advises for driving behaviour like mine, to change oil every six months. Some car manufacturers recommend this according to BP Australia. May be this is to counter sludge build-up.
Yes...now it's become complicated
So this maybe explain my cleaner spark plugs with less build up,by the warmer,and in Australia ...we can it better calling hotter than in Europe,and in my case Belgium !
BTW....this morning at 04.30 AM it was -2 Celsius ! and it's spring,seems this year that winter never ends, and that now almost 5 months !
I would like to be in Australia now....but NOT for my spark plugs ,fuel and oil !
And i was thinking, we can proof if BP is right or wrong ?!?!
We can exchange our car's ,you take my car and i take your car with new spark plugs and drive about 10,000 miles...check spark plugs...and the proof is delivered....but this is..... but a good experiment !
But BMW should know about this problem,they test their car's everywhere in the world with huge temperature differences !!!
So.... maybe we need to ask BMW about this spark plug problem and actually you need to ask them...you have this spark plug problem ..i do not.
But please let us (me) know...when you have any update's about this problem !
Aussiem3....THX...

Last edited by ///M Power-Belgium; 04-05-2013 at 10:31 AM.
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      04-05-2013, 06:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Yes...now it's become complicated
So this maybe explain my cleaner spark plugs with less build up,by the warmer,and in Australia ...we can it better calling hotter than in Europe,and in my case Belgium !
BTW....this morning at 04.30 AM it was -2 Celsius ! and it's spring,seems this year that winter never ends, and that now almost 5 months !
I would like to be in Australia now....but NOT for my spark plugs ,fuel and oil !
And i was thinking, we can proof if BP is right or wrong ?!?!
We can exchange our car's ,you take my car and i take your car with new spark plugs and drive about 10,000 miles...check spark plugs...and the proof is delivered....but this is..... but a good experiment !
But BMW should know about this problem,they test their car's everywhere in the world with huge temperature differences !!!
So.... maybe we need to ask BMW about this spark plug problem and actually you need to ask them...you have this spark plug problem ..i do not.
But please let us (me) know...when you have any update's about this problem !
Aussiem3....THX...
There was a regular 3 series who had complained to the BMW dealer regarding the sludge build up and how he uses BP ultimate all the time. He couldn't get a definitive answer from BP, and the service rep blamed it on poor fuel.

What BP is saying is making sense. I drive to work in the morning and it takes about good 5 km for the engine to reach optimum temperature and then I drive for another 5 km and shut off the engine. So there is no time for the burn off and clean the spark plugs.

Have a look at this link from the NGK website and it confirms what BP is saying:

http://www.ngk.com.au/spark-plugs/te...-plug-analysis

I need to go for a regular highway drive above 80km/h to complete the burn off cycle. I might also consider six-monthly oil change.

I know some extended family members have Subaru and as part of the warranty condition they need to change oil every six months. When you look at it it does make sense now.

I know BMW Australia have been trying to have the CBS changed from 24 months to 12 months because of excessive sludge build up but for some reason BMW AG have not accommodated this recommendation.

BMW Australia's regional technical manager is visiting Perth soon, and I know his quite well, so I might get a chance to speak with him and see what he has to say.

I think this forum is brilliant and we can share our experience.
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      04-06-2013, 11:34 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
There was a regular 3 series who had complained to the BMW dealer regarding the sludge build up and how he uses BP ultimate all the time. He couldn't get a definitive answer from BP, and the service rep blamed it on poor fuel.

What BP is saying is making sense. I drive to work in the morning and it takes about good 5 km for the engine to reach optimum temperature and then I drive for another 5 km and shut off the engine. So there is no time for the burn off and clean the spark plugs.

Have a look at this link from the NGK website and it confirms what BP is saying:

http://www.ngk.com.au/spark-plugs/te...-plug-analysis

I need to go for a regular highway drive above 80km/h to complete the burn off cycle. I might also consider six-monthly oil change.

I know some extended family members have Subaru and as part of the warranty condition they need to change oil every six months. When you look at it it does make sense now.

I know BMW Australia have been trying to have the CBS changed from 24 months to 12 months because of excessive sludge build up but for some reason BMW AG have not accommodated this recommendation.

BMW Australia's regional technical manager is visiting Perth soon, and I know his quite well, so I might get a chance to speak with him and see what he has to say.

I think this forum is brilliant and we can share our experience.
Good link to NGK....THX !
Also....i'm curious when you will see the BMW technical manager in Perth
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      04-06-2013, 04:10 PM   #55
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I guess that's the answer to the "wear", it's the buildup which must be just enough reduction of insulation resistance, to alter the ion flow knock control.
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      04-06-2013, 04:40 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Good link to NGK....THX !
Also....i'm curious when you will see the BMW technical manager in Perth
It will be in the next couple of weeks, and hope they can accommodate me into his busy visiting schedule. He comes to Perth twice a year.
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      04-07-2013, 08:09 AM   #57
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Quote:
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It will be in the next couple of weeks, and hope they can accommodate me into his busy visiting schedule. He comes to Perth twice a year.
I'm curious to hear the result....
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      04-07-2013, 05:24 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I'm curious to hear the result....
I am also planning send him the email chain, so he'll have time to prepare
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      04-13-2013, 12:40 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
I will keep you up to date as and when (and if) I get a response.

I took these pics last night and it's very hard to measure the gaps unless you have some precision measuring tools.

For the new plug look at the measure on the caliper. Also if you compare the new with old there is hardly any wear in the used plugs. It's very very hard to see.
Thanks for the great pictures showing the new and used plugs.
The secondary ignition voltage requirement is less when the electrodes have sharp surfaces (edges and corners) to jump from. This is the reason for multi-electrode plugs that provide more sharp surfaces. As you can see in the photos the used plug electrodes (center and ground) are rounded which requires higher voltage to bridge the gap. The new "sharp" electrodes reduce the required voltage and reduce the chance of misfire under load conditions.
You might also notice that there looks like a bit of carbon "bridging" forming on the used plug that can create a short circuit or no spark because the electrons will travel the path of least resistance. No spark causes a misfire that can be felt at idle and less power.
All this makes me want to change my plug early, because of the short trip driving.
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      04-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Thanks for the great pictures showing the new and used plugs.
The secondary ignition voltage requirement is less when the electrodes have sharp surfaces (edges and corners) to jump from. This is the reason for multi-electrode plugs that provide more sharp surfaces. As you can see in the photos the used plug electrodes (center and ground) are rounded which requires higher voltage to bridge the gap. The new "sharp" electrodes reduce the required voltage and reduce the chance of misfire under load conditions.
You might also notice that there looks like a bit of carbon "bridging" forming on the used plug that can create a short circuit or no spark because the electrons will travel the path of least resistance. No spark causes a misfire that can be felt at idle and less power.
All this makes me want to change my plug early, because of the short trip driving.
That's very good information. Thank you Ken.
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      04-16-2013, 09:56 AM   #61
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15k oil change interval should cause more concern than the plugs.
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      04-16-2013, 10:41 AM   #62
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15k oil change interval should cause more concern than the plugs.
Thanks for the useless contribution. Show pictures of your spark plugs.
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      04-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #63
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Thanks for the useless contribution. Show pictures of your spark plugs.
Right, forgot the condition of the engine is useless. Find an engine expert that vouches for 15k oil changes on performance engines and I'll concede that my comment was useless. I'm not trying to make fun of you or give you a hard time, you honestly need to change it at like half that. I understand the 15k is when it's free, but a few bucks between is worth it.
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      04-16-2013, 04:21 PM   #64
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Right, forgot the condition of the engine is useless. Find an engine expert that vouches for 15k oil changes on performance engines and I'll concede that my comment was useless. I'm not trying to make fun of you or give you a hard time, you honestly need to change it at like half that. I understand the 15k is when it's free, but a few bucks between is worth it.
+1

i change mine every 7.5k miles
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      04-16-2013, 06:22 PM   #65
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Right, forgot the condition of the engine is useless. Find an engine expert that vouches for 15k oil changes on performance engines and I'll concede that my comment was useless. I'm not trying to make fun of you or give you a hard time, you honestly need to change it at like half that. I understand the 15k is when it's free, but a few bucks between is worth it.
This is not true.
Just look at the oil analyses posted here and you will see that cars driven moderately (mostly highway) can easily go 15k miles on the oil. I'm running Redline race oil and still getting over 7500 miles between change outs.
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      04-17-2013, 02:57 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Right, forgot the condition of the engine is useless. Find an engine expert that vouches for 15k oil changes on performance engines and I'll concede that my comment was useless. I'm not trying to make fun of you or give you a hard time, you honestly need to change it at like half that. I understand the 15k is when it's free, but a few bucks between is worth it.
I could care less if Steve Dinan vouched for 7500 mile oil changes. A little known organization called the United States Air Force taught me spectrometric oil analysis on real performance engines. I'll use what I learned about wear metal analysis and trends over what "engine experts" vouch for.
This thread is about spark plug conditions, if you have nothing to contribute about your spark plugs, move along.
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