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      04-02-2013, 09:40 PM   #23
VCMpower
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VCMpower View Post
.


This noddy exchange of yours is taking away from what could be a good techincal discussion here.

Why don't you muppets take this to PM.
Please man. Let Mike speak up. It is also a conversation going on. Have you ever been in one of those? Sorry, what is the highest rpm your car has hit?
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      04-02-2013, 09:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder
Mike, give us some insight....how can this be?....................Phil
It can't
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      04-02-2013, 09:44 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw135er
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder
Mike, give us some insight....how can this be?....................Phil
It can't
I find it hard to believe as well. We will wait Mikes response in silence.
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      04-02-2013, 10:02 PM   #26
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Perhaps more importantly than "how did this happen" is whether anyone can re-write the code within the black box to reduce this figure down to 8,350 ??
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      04-02-2013, 10:07 PM   #27
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Hey guys, sorry for the lack of description... to fill you in on some details

-The car was located in Australia.
-The owner of the car just purchased it a few weeks ago
-The dealer that sold it to him gave it to him with a water damaged amp
-Apparently there they can get away with this kind of stuff without recourse like we have here

Now - onto the freezeframe data.

I definitely believe that the motor saw 9985 RPM, and I think something broke there by looking at the reference signal @ vanos. A few other things to note:

-When this event happened, airflow was calculated to be 4kg/h. That's basically like no airflow at all. At 8,300 RPM, these cars are seeing about 1200kg/h based of the MAP sensor calculation.
-My car has seen a max of ~1300kg/h at high RPM.
-You'll also notice that at this moment this data was recorded, the pedal position was 0%, meaning the engine must have been completely off.
-The RPM gradient was negative, indicating that there was serious deceleration when this event occurred.
-The transmission speed at output shaft during this this event indicates 0 RPM.

The car had about 50,000km when I read this data, so it seems as if the engine or whatever was broken had been replaced prior to the resale of the car.

Now - this would all make sense on a manual car. Given this car has only reached redline fifteen times according to this data, it doesn't seem like a car that was flogged around. Oil and coolant temperatures were warm and in safe areas at the time of this event.

But... This car was DCT. So I can not for the life of me understand how this happened. The RPM is controlled pretty much exclusively by the DME, so the only thing I can think of is some sort of accidental misshift by the DCT transmission (which the likelihood of that is extremely small).

If it was a US car I would be able to see the warranty history on it, but unfortunately I can't see that information on non US Spec vehicles.

Regardless, the car is running well now. And since the owner's amp is dead, all he gets to hear is that lovely V8 sound.

I wish it added up, but it doesn't.
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      04-02-2013, 10:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Perhaps more importantly than "how did this happen" is whether anyone can re-write the code within the black box to reduce this figure down to 8,350 ??
Not possible without either replacing the DME or replacing the left Motorola Freescale MPC563 Processor.

On an E60 M5, sure The M3 DME is locked down a bit more.

Now - if the car was an 08 or 09 on original software, this is possible. But this car had 170EEKFV3 which is a euro spec tuner protected file IIRC. BMW didn't lock it down hard until later versions.
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      04-02-2013, 10:16 PM   #29
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Not everything can be explained. Good dissection Mike.
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      04-02-2013, 10:17 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post


This noddy exchange of yours is taking away from what could be a good techincal discussion here.

Why don't you muppets take this to PM.

Feel free to start getting technical.. Im sure a couple of us would love to have a discussion.

Anyway it sounds like a glitch.
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      04-02-2013, 10:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Not possible without either replacing the DME or replacing the left Motorola Freescale MPC563 Processor.

On an E60 M5, sure The M3 DME is locked down a bit more.

Now - if the car was an 08 or 09 on original software, this is possible. But this car had 170EEKFV3 which is a euro spec tuner protected file IIRC. BMW didn't lock it down hard until later versions.
Interesting thanks Mike.
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      04-02-2013, 10:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Blame yourself.
for having a certain tuner tune it LOL

its MY fault i let X do it! haha
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When is this episode coming?!
My thoughts on M5/6 vs M3/4...i wonder if tuned panamera turbo S owners are laughing at gt3 owners because they have "no chance in a race"
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      04-02-2013, 11:59 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post


This noddy exchange of yours is taking away from what could be a good techincal discussion here.

Why don't you muppets take this to PM.
Its a message board...what did you expect? Half the posts on these forums are friendly banter...you need to chill. Your response is whats taking away from the technical discussion here...
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      04-03-2013, 12:13 AM   #34
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I didn't know the DME logged how many times you hit redline? Now I understand logging maximum redline RPM for a warranty issue but why is it their business of how many times a car was run to redline as long as it is not overrevved? Sure one may be driving it hard but that can't be used to deny a claim can it? If so I find that really crazy as they sell this car as one to be driven hard.
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      04-03-2013, 12:21 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
I didn't know the DME logged how many times you hit redline? Now I understand logging maximum redline RPM for a warranty issue but why is it their business of how many times a car was run to redline as long as it is not overrevved? Sure one may be driving it hard but that can't be used to deny a claim can it? If so I find that really crazy as they sell this car as one to be driven hard.
The car logs quite a bit of information, some examples:
-Records accessory loads the last 30 ignition cycles IIRC. So if you left your charger plugged in and it was drawing power, this would be logged.
-How long you left the ignition on before starting, and how many times.
-If you held the brake and the gas at the same time
-How many short trips vs medium trips vs long trips you take

This probably just scratches the surface. I don't think they would use it to deny a claim but it's an indicator to some extent on how the car was driven. I've seen everything from someone with 25,000 miles that never exceeded 7,000 RPM even ONCE, to what was posted in the OP, and everything in between. These are pretty sophisticated cars, and for good reasons I would say.
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      04-03-2013, 09:36 AM   #36
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I'm going to ride with the glitch theory on this one......based on the info Mike provided with the data screen shot, this seems so impossible to me.....Phil
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      04-03-2013, 12:40 PM   #37
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Wow-so if you did not actually hit the redline, it would not record it correct? That is a good lesson. I atleast take it "near" redline a good 10 times a day but usually only get to 7500 and maybe 8k and then am limited by my mph to not speed drastically. So this situation would not really be recordable?

This is the best feature of the car IMO-the engine and the massive redline and the continuous pull to the top. No way I would stop doing that whether they deny me or not I would rather pay the price as its so enjoyable!
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      04-07-2013, 09:43 PM   #38
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Just wondering, what is the max value the DME can/will record.

If I remember correctly the s52 DME will only record like ~9000rpm which definitely indicates a mis-shift.
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      04-07-2013, 09:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Hope he doesn't blame the tuner for blowing his engine one day -_-

So whats the story how did he manage this?
But isn't that the trend
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      04-07-2013, 10:08 PM   #40
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just a wild guess, possible that this happen when the car was rear-ended?
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      04-09-2013, 10:05 AM   #41
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At least we know the s65 can go to 10k lol
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      04-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Hey guys, sorry for the lack of description... to fill you in on some details

-The car was located in Australia.
-The owner of the car just purchased it a few weeks ago
-The dealer that sold it to him gave it to him with a water damaged amp
-Apparently there they can get away with this kind of stuff without recourse like we have here

Now - onto the freezeframe data.

I definitely believe that the motor saw 9985 RPM, and I think something broke there by looking at the reference signal @ vanos. A few other things to note:

-When this event happened, airflow was calculated to be 4kg/h. That's basically like no airflow at all. At 8,300 RPM, these cars are seeing about 1200kg/h based of the MAP sensor calculation.
-My car has seen a max of ~1300kg/h at high RPM.
-You'll also notice that at this moment this data was recorded, the pedal position was 0%, meaning the engine must have been completely off.
-The RPM gradient was negative, indicating that there was serious deceleration when this event occurred.
-The transmission speed at output shaft during this this event indicates 0 RPM.

The car had about 50,000km when I read this data, so it seems as if the engine or whatever was broken had been replaced prior to the resale of the car.

Now - this would all make sense on a manual car. Given this car has only reached redline fifteen times according to this data, it doesn't seem like a car that was flogged around. Oil and coolant temperatures were warm and in safe areas at the time of this event.

But... This car was DCT. So I can not for the life of me understand how this happened. The RPM is controlled pretty much exclusively by the DME, so the only thing I can think of is some sort of accidental misshift by the DCT transmission (which the likelihood of that is extremely small).

If it was a US car I would be able to see the warranty history on it, but unfortunately I can't see that information on non US Spec vehicles.

Regardless, the car is running well now. And since the owner's amp is dead, all he gets to hear is that lovely V8 sound.

I wish it added up, but it doesn't.
I have an employee with a 2006 M5 with SMG. She was driving along at 40mph when the ECU just decided to shift into reverse. I've heard about issues with the SMG, but this is the first I've heard about with the DCT. I hope that it was just a random gremlin in the machine rather than a more common glitch.
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