10 Years Later...Still no WMDs

[P-rex]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

You offer no supporting information for your claim that the US lost the war.

The US is not bankrupt, and China is not holding anything but promissory notes. Japan owns virtually as much US debt as China, as of Jan 2013. And less than half of the debt is owed to foreign nations.

We are through here - your information is continually wrong, and unsupported with facts.

Supporting information:

Apr 30, 1975.....the Vietnam War ended with the capture of Saigon by Communist forces and the surrender of General Duong Vanh Minh...US marines were evacuated .... Hence America and allies suffered defeat...

Now what your story....

[P-rex]

To add to that.... The American embassy in Saigon was closed.... Marked the end of diplomatic relation during that time

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by R Grubba Balls

if america took a shit, i think the only people who would feel bad would be americans who've never left the country. anyone know why an american passport is written in french?

American passports are written in English, with a few areas translated into both French and Spanish. I assume it's because French and Spanish languages are spoken widely worldwide - and if you are traveling to a foreign country (hence needing a passport), you may encounter people who speak other languages? But that's just a guess.

[lmaleke]

Originally Posted by mact3333

Or perhaps it has to do with the USD and how it reigns supreme as oil HAS to be traded in US dollar's...Few countries have tried to trade oil in non-US dollar's and you can guess what happened to them.

Wonder why Saddam and Osama Bin Laden was on the US govt payroll at one time but all of a sudden they are seen as pure evil devil worshippers?...you think many americans know that the CIA had them on the payroll at one time?...hmmm.

Wonder why we invaded Iraq?..you dont really think we went to war because of stupid WMD's do you...think people...its always about the US dollar and oil...we went to get the oil and their oil reserves...Alan Greenspan even said as such...wonder why Paul Oneil the dept Secretary of Treasury was fired by Bush II?...cause Oneil said that Bush was talking about invading Iraq way before 9/11 and Oneils kept questining him on it...Bush Sr started it and Bush Jr wanted to finish it cause its always about money and oil.

BTW guys, please look all this up for yourselves....dont believe me thats for sure.

It doesnt matter what military men say...99.99% of them dont know why we went to war either or dont want to believe it...we are all just pawns in their game...they get us to believe what they want us to believe cause the media is owned by them and 99% of us are sheep are we not?

Exactly. It was all about oil and the greenback, it always has been the case. And when I asked the same question, a couple of members here responded with nuke 'em comment, need training area to spend the old ordnance, etc.

[P-rex]

French is odd... Canadian passports are bilingual with French but its interesting with regards to us passports... French is not even taught in American schools is it?

[P-rex]

Further to my comments... Half my extended family are Americans by birth... This is not about being American or Canadian.. It's out the actions of our political leaders and in specific....about WMD and the Iraq invasion

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by P-rex

French is odd... Canadian passports are bilingual with French but its interesting with regards to us passports... French is not even taught in American schools is it?

Yes - French is taught in many US schools, along with Spanish, and sometimes German. It depends upon the school district, as schools in the US are largely controlled locally.

[Ahmed]

Originally Posted by P-rex

Further to my comments... Half my extended family are Americans by birth... This is not about being American or Canadian.. It's out the actions of our political leaders and in specific....about WMD and the Iraq invasion

Agreed! I never defend oliticians and governments! FUCK EM!

[mact3333]

Regarding Vietnam,

If I was an elitist that had ties or ownership to the military machine, I wouldn't try to win the war immediately, I would draw it out as long as I can.

Why kill the golden goose early???

[bbbbmw]

There has been a lot of discussion about how Oil/Dollars are driving all sorts of behaviors. Reminded me of this clip of the noted economist Milton Friedman, some years ago on the Phil Donahue show. He sums it up very well:

It's always been about money and power, in every society. Socialist societies tend to devolve faster and crash harder than any other, even though they are supposed to be about the collective good. We should all be grateful - we live in an age when we are more empowered to drive our destiny than any other time in history.

[amanda hor$t]

socialist systems are rigid and heavily centralized so a sudden and instant crash is usually how it goes. a country like america, if there was a revolution you might not even notice unless you're really paying attention.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

There has been a lot of discussion about how Oil/Dollars are driving all sorts of behaviors. Reminded me of this clip of the noted economist Milton Friedman, some years ago on the Phil Donahue show. He sums it up very well:

It's always been about money and power, in every society. Socialist societies tend to devolve faster and crash harder than any other, even though they are supposed to be about the collective good. We should all be grateful - we live in an age when we are more empowered to drive our destiny than any other time in history.

Again with these videos of smart people with facts and common sense.... Geezzz!

[reelop19]

I love me some Milton Friedman.

[divisionbell77]

Enough already. We fucked up. They had no WMD and were not involved in any form of terrorist attack on the US. We used a BS reasons that Iraq had WMD, even linking them to 9/11, even though the White House was repeatedly told the sources were inaccurate and not credible.

This does not mean Saddam was not a fucker and did not need to be removed from power.

All it means is we used a BS excuse to go in there, which is in fact wrong to do.

I am glad he is out of power, and paid for his crimes. I am embarrassed we lied to do it.

[txz4]

Originally Posted by Mss396

World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history. Over 60 million people were killed, which was over 2.5% of the world population.

The Holocaust lead to the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II. 5.7 million (78%) of the 7.3 million Jews in German occupied Europe were Holocaust victims. Other estimates for Holocaust deaths range between 4.9 to 6.0 million Jews.

Total Soviet losses in the postwar 1946–91 boundaries were 26.6 million (13.5% of the total population of 196.7 million).

And the list goes on.

Most of mankind tries to learn from their mistakes of their fathers. This is just a parlial result of WWII that had we acted early would most likely not have happened.

Iran, N Korea do we wait? Or do we act? Your choice or your fathers. Remember "Peace in our time"

Arguably the best post ive seen in the politics section.

[bbbbmw]

Originally Posted by divisionbell77

Enough already. We fucked up. They had no WMD and were not involved in any form of terrorist attack on the US. We used a BS reasons that Iraq had WMD, even linking them to 9/11, even though the White House was repeatedly told the sources were inaccurate and not credible.

This does not mean Saddam was not a fucker and did not need to be removed from power.

All it means is we used a BS excuse to go in there, which is in fact wrong to do.

I am glad he is out of power, and paid for his crimes. I am embarrassed we lied to do it.

We lied? Or Sadaam's eternal threats and use of wmd's against his own people was a testimony? Or refusing UN inspections was confirmation? Or the wmd's were taken to other sympathetic countries in the 9 months before we acted?

Your assumption of lying is not fully supported. Don't be too embarrassed - it makes you sound like a liberal whiner.

[reelop19]

Its so cute how some of you think you know whats up. We are being lied to by this government and ever since 9/11 some crazy sh!t has been going on. Bush took freedoms and grew government like crazy and Obama is doing the same except on steroids. Everything we are being told is a lie. WMD's, no WMD's.....who gives a sh!t. We are in something like 130 countries and you're bitching about WMD's are why we're over there?? We're god damn imperialists and its nothing new. We are being played by our government and a complicit media. Stories change overnight essentially exposing the lies and corruption and double speak of both the politicians and media and nobody seems to care. Journalism is dead and this 24 hour news cycle is nothing more than practice for a future Government run propaganda machine. Watch you'll see. News outlets (except for FOX News) are failing and there is already talk of which one's are "too big to fail." Its a fcukin disaster and some of you actually think you're getting the truth. LOL

[bbbbmw]

Regarding the original post about the lack of WMD's in Iraq - there was speculation at the time that Sadaam's WMD's were smuggled out to Syria, in the months it took for the UN to "investigate", before the US acted:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/what-is-assad-hiding-in-his-backyard-1.292935(article from 2010)

"Other users noted that Syrian journalist and human rights activist Nizar Nayouf told the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf in 2004 that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein smuggled his arsenal of chemical and biological weapons into Syria just prior to the United States' invasion of Iraq in 2003.

In the interview, Nayouf claimed that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were stashed in three separate sites in Syria, including an underground military base beneath the village of AlBaida, one kilometer south of Masyaf. Nayouf was imprisoned by Syrian authorities for 10 years. In 2001, he was granted political asylum in France."

Now, Sarin gas is being used against the Syrian people by their government - just like what Sadaam did to the Kurds. Did we just find Sadaam's WMD's?

[Mss396]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Regarding the original post about the lack of WMD's in Iraq - there was speculation at the time that Sadaam's WMD's were smuggled out to Syria, in the months it took for the UN to "investigate", before the US acted:

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...292935(article from 2010)

"Other users noted that Syrian journalist and human rights activist Nizar Nayouf told the Dutch newspaper De Telegraaf in 2004 that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein smuggled his arsenal of chemical and biological weapons into Syria just prior to the United States' invasion of Iraq in 2003.

In the interview, Nayouf claimed that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction were stashed in three separate sites in Syria, including an underground military base beneath the village of AlBaida, one kilometer south of Masyaf. Nayouf was imprisoned by Syrian authorities for 10 years. In 2001, he was granted political asylum in France."

Now, Sarin gas is being used against the Syrian people by their government - just like what Sadaam did to the Kurds. Did we just find Sadaam's WMD's?

Probably. Nothing surprises me anymore about the Middle East

[P-rex]

Nope.... 'Sunni' saddam hated 'alawati Shiite' Bishar Al Saad

The US had a satellite watch all of saddam's phoney so called mobile WMD....

Obama is smart not to fall for faulty intel and cave into pressure from war mongering GOP...

Obama is doing the right thing by taking time to assess the facts and avoid unnecessary war spending...

Israel is the provider of the faulty intel since they think war with Syria will help instigate war with Iran...

Americans should be supporting 'economy' first mentality

[bbbbmw]

Or...

Iraq and Syria had the same allies, who were providing WMDs. Sadaam gave them to Syria to remove evidence, and Syria (dictator Al Assad) was happy to get them (to keep for future use - like now) and disarm his enemy.

What warmongering in the GOP? The most recent warmongering was Obama, in Lybia - which was in the face of Congress, including the GOP.

And it seems that Obama is either continuing to "dither", or waffle - his "Red Line" has been crossed, and now he's trying to pull it back. Perhaps someday he will realize the danger of appearing weak in the Middle East.

[P-rex]

Originally Posted by bbbbmw

Or...

Iraq and Syria had the same allies, who were providing WMDs. Sadaam gave them to Syria to remove evidence, and Syria (dictator Al Assad) was happy to get them (to keep for future use - like now) and disarm his enemy.

What warmongering in the GOP? The most recent warmongering was Obama, in Lybia - which was in the face of Congress, including the GOP.

And it seems that Obama is either continuing to "dither", or waffle - his "Red Line" has been crossed, and now he's trying to pull it back. Perhaps someday he will realize the danger of appearing weak in the Middle East.

Number 1 GOP war mongerer... Johnny McCain