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      03-25-2013, 03:58 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by CDM3DCT View Post
I remember and I agree but typical Webber he chocked and when it was all said and done he was 3rd in the points standing.
Valid points around his clear 2nd driver role he plays and that VET is on the whole a more consistent driver (read that as better if need be). However it doesn't mean what he did is acceptable as a driver and for the team (F1 is clearly a team sport). We can keep pulling up history on both of them and try to justify the behaviours but in my opinion you need to look at the events of that day and how it transpired.
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      03-25-2013, 04:17 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by EINSER M View Post
VET is a racing champ, he is not applying for sainthood. Senna, Prost and Schumi all were also champs and all did mea culpas, let's not crucify VET for this. I'll contend the racing with WEB might have caused a repeat of Turkey with 43 bagged points for RBR gone poof; that being said, it was WEB who was the bigger man and in the end, let VET through. At the end of the day, it was maximum points for the Infiniti Red Bull Racing F1 team, this will blow over quickly and we will race again in Shanghai in 3 weeks. F1 is soooooo much drama
Yea he is a racing champ and who knows he may end up being the youngest consecutive 4 time WDC winner. But if he does go down in the books as another Schumi then most will think he is just a selfish c*nt, excuse my French At least Schumi didn't try hide his behaviour, he came out and was like yea so what.

Senna whilst demonstrating similarities in terms of ruthlessness I think had an element of idealism of how racing should be pure added to the fact he had amazing skills and self-belief a higher power was there to guide him (not challenging his ideals). That being said F1 has moved on in terms of team dynamics and the multitude of variables.

Interesting season this is going to be, look forward to Hamilton and Rosberg challenging upfront and Webber getting his own back even if he doesn't have a hope in the world of winning the championship this year although I don't think we should write him off just yet.
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      03-25-2013, 04:19 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Webbo!!!
Mate that has to be the best picture you've posted the whole weekend
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      03-25-2013, 10:38 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by jonasaurus View Post
Mate that has to be the best picture you've posted the whole weekend


I saw something on SkySportsF1 post race, where I thought it was just covering up some dash board thing.
Now I realized it was the flipping from webbo!!!
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      03-25-2013, 10:46 AM   #137
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I'd really like to see coverage of the Winner's written press conference after the podium ceremony. Apparently some sparks flew a bit in there, while Hamilton had to sit and ride it out.
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      03-25-2013, 11:43 AM   #138
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Strong wording mate. You 'GUARANTEE'? Don't get me wrong you could well be right but no one can know,
FYI... Christian Horner in a post-race interview said they were running the same engine mapping (during their scuffle, that is).
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      03-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #139
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I'd really like to see coverage of the Winner's written press conference after the podium ceremony. Apparently some sparks flew a bit in there, while Hamilton had to sit and ride it out.
Its more like Mark's ranting session and Seb's apologize session.

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QUESTIONS FROM THE FLOOR

Q: (Peter Windsor - F1 Racing) Sebastian, you said that you apologise; would you go so far as to say - without wanting to put words in your mouth - that if the situation arises, you feel that you owe Mark a win now?

SV: We just came out of the cars a couple of minutes ago but surely I want to talk with him again later on without all of you. As I said before, I didnít mean to ignore the call, itís something we talk about many times in the year and yeah, I should have behaved better today.

Q: (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) Lewis, we could hear at the end of the race while Nico was parking the car, Ďremember this one,í he said to the team. Will you remember it too?
LH: Of course, of course. How can I forget?

Q: (Michael Schmidt - Auto, Motor und Sport) To all three of you, I understand the technical reasons why you have to pace yourselves at the end and why there are team orders, but letís say for the fan, is that the price we have to pay that the teams tell you in the last stint not to attack any more because everybody was excited about the fight between Mark and Seb and everybody was a bit disappointed when we heard that Rosberg was not allowed to attack you, Lewis.

MW: Iím a huge sports fan and I think we want to see people give their best to the end. Itís extremely unusual to have both cars at the end of a race together and I think the teamís position is... weíve gone through this many times with our own team and obviously now is a different situation for the future but... yeah, itís part of Formula One. I think that when you have 500 employees and it was nip and tuck for Sebastian and I to be in the fence in turn one, Michael Schmidtís happy but is the factory happy, are we happy? So when the blood is boiling and everyone is on the edge, then yeah, we are professionals, we are world class, we did the job today but itís not an easy situation for the team. Itís always spoken about, always has been, always will be. If you had one car teams, itís not a problem. In some teams to have a one car team is the ideal scenario but three cars, four cars, itís always going to be the same thing, that contact between teammates is the worst scenario for a team.

Q: Sebastian, your perspective?

SV: If I take my race, obviously, as I said, I felt a little bit more comfortable because I had new tyres at the end, a new set of tyres which I think worked a little bit better today but yeah, itís very different racing to how it used to be in the past, even to last year, itís another step, so itís a bit more extreme, just trying to look after the tyres and driving into the unknown. I think you see on TV as well how pieces of rubber are flying off and how we suffer on those tyres and obviously the last thing you want is to risk a puncture and then therefore donít finish the race so I think we would all enjoy it if we had a tyre that was stronger we could race harder on it, but equally I think situations like that come up no matter what kind of tyres you have. Obviously, as Mark said, you have a certain responsibility for the team as well and a lot of people in the factory working all year and obviously you have two cars and I think you have to take that into account as well.

Q: Lewis, your thoughts? Obviously this circuit is a fairly extreme one but do you see the picture continuing?

LH: I probably do, yeah. These tyres make it very hard, very difficult to make them last and particularly for me today, I wasnít really able to make my tyres last as much as I wanted. I was fuel saving from an early point in the race which lost me a lot of time but generally these tyres make... itís not fun, I didnít enjoy the race. Itís not the same as back in the day when you had stints where you are pushing to the maximum the whole time, you had tyres that would last. Now youíre just... itís like you have a hundred dollars and you have to spend it wisely over a period of time. It makes racing a lot different. Itís more strategic rather than pure speed racing.

Q: (Matt Coch - pitpass.com) Sebastian, you say you didnít ignore the instruction on purpose but I suggest that it was a deliberate move to pass Mark, so I wonder how you can say that you didnít ignore the instruction when clearly passing was a deliberate action.

SV: I think itís not an easy situation for me. Obviously Iím the black sheep right now. Obviously I put myself in that position so, as I said, all I can say is apologies to Mark. I know that right now, obviously, having just come out of the car, itís probably difficult to explain everything but the pass was deliberate, obviously I wanted to pass him, you could see that, otherwise you wouldnít even try, but I didnít mean to ignore the strategy or the call. I made a mistake, simply.

Q: (Kate Walker - Girl Racer) Lewis, you said that Nico drove a really smart race and we did hear from quite early on that you were getting a lot of fuel messages, Nico was getting a few. Were you guys fuelled just on the edge of what was acceptable, were you racing too hard? What was your problem with fuel?

LH: I think we were racing very hard to keep up with these guys because they were obviously on another level today. We were close but really on the knife edge trying to stay with them. We were trying to be as high up, as far up, as close to them as possible, but obviously I used too much fuel. I was being asked to save fuel from very early on, perhaps we were particularly aggressive on our fuel strategy which is a little bit unfortunate. I donít know what the situation was with Nico but for me, it loses quite a lot of time when you have to basically lift and coast for a hundred meters, fifty to a hundred meters before a corner. I think we can do a better job there and I think I can do a better job just looking after the tyres. I could see that Nico was not pushing too much at the start of his stints, which is where I was trying to keep up with these guys so I was perhaps pushing a little bit more, trying to really make the difference in the early stages of the tyres and took too much out of them but thatís the name of the game.

Q: (Christopher Joseph - The Vancouver Sun) To both Mark and Lewis: given that F1 is a team sport and team dynamic is vital, what will you both do practically now moving forward to either repair or return to that great team dynamic you both had?

MW: I think itís very early days right now, itís very raw, obviously, and we need to work out how the team goes best forwards from here. Thatís obviously going to be discussed this week. I will be in Australia on my surfboard, the phone wonít be engaged, see what happens.

LH: I think itís difficult to say for me what we do moving forward, but I will go and speak to the team and obviously whether or not I should apologise to Nico... I did say to him that heíd done a fantastic job. Would I let him past in the future if I was in the same position? I probably would.

Q: (Ian Parkes - Press Association) Mark, as has been mentioned, emotions are clearly raw but firstly do you at least accept Sebís apology, because thatís not been mentioned yet and secondly, again emotions are raw but when you have a teammate who does ignore team orders, does it make you consider your future with the team, maybe even in Formula One?

MW: My mind, in the last 15 laps was thinking that many things, yes. Many many things.

Q: (Dan Knutson - Auto Action) Again, to Vettel, do you realise in the past there have been things like this between Senna and Prost, Villeneuve and Pironi, that if you donít repair this, that the whole team gets in trouble and it all goes downhill?

SV: Well, I think thereís plenty of food on the table for you guys. I think itís something between Mark and myself. I think weíve had situations in the past, never like that, so obviously there has been a lot of stories in the press written about our relationship etc. I think our relationship is very professional, obviously thereís no problems. We are not best friends. I think itís very difficult to be best friends with any of the drivers but I think we share respect and I respect Mark as a racing driver. I remember occasions where obviously people express their opinion about Mark and his career which I thought at some stage were very disrespectful. I obviously try to be aware of what he has achieved, where he has come from, not only in Formula One but also before that and I respect that, so I respect him as a driver. Obviously we were giving each other a very hard time, probably similar to the fight that you saw today on the track, not trying to give each other much room. Itís the same at every race and obviously itís not an easy battle but in terms of team spirit etc, I think weíve been working very well together in the past. Obviously I can see that for you it probably sounds a bit dull, because if you look back at the results, the last three years Iíve had the upper hand but I think it was always very close. At this stage, can I say much more than I made a mistake, Iím not proud that I made it. If I had the chance to do it again, I would do it differently but it doesnít count now. I canít change it now, maybe in the future thereís a situation where I can but I will try to explain that again to Mark and the whole team.

Q: (Trent Price - Richland F1) Mark, obviously yesterday there were a lot of unknowns surrounding tyres going into this race but youíve executed basically what was a perfect race in terms of the tyre management. That must give you some confidence for the rest of the year.

MW: Yeah, youíre right, going into the event we were pretty concerned. Some of our long runs before the Grand Prix itself were pretty poor but these guys are not resting on any laurels, particularly, again, our key beacon in Adrian Newey, Adrian is working hard. The thing is I think itís quite good for the neutral, good for the fans and good for probably new people that are following Formula One, but the old - letís say people who have more of a grasp of the sport and more education of where the sport was - itís still a little bit hit and miss. With what we had, probably not much of an idea thatís how the race would go for us today. I was surprised that other people were not with us, completely, people wonít believe that but thatís the case, and also I think, for the junior categories they need to get the tyres and things better for young drivers to learn how to push the cars to the limit and drive absolutely on the edge. You watch Rafa Nadal and Roger Federer play each other and itís playing with the lines, itís playing with precision for a five set match and we all enjoy watching that but at the moment weíre driving at eight and a half tenths, eight tenths, conserving our pace and some more situations like this will probably happen in the future because thereís a lot of ambiguity in whoís (on the) pace and whoís quick. Seb feels heís strong only in the middle of the race then I could respond. The racing is completely around nursing and trying to make the tyres survive and theyíre not conducive to driving a car on the limit. You donít see us really pushing on the limit. Obviously Seb and I had a push in the middle in our last stint but generally no drivers are really on the limit today. I donít know if I answered your question but anyway, thatís my little rant.

Q: (Abhishek Takle - Midday) Mark, obviously emotions still very high but were the situation reversed in the future, would you stick to an agreement to turn down the engine and hold station, or would you ignore the call going by what happened today and pass Seb?

MW: I think that question is not going to be answered right now. Letís just say there were a lot of things going through my mind in the last 15 laps of the Grand Prix, lots of different reasons, not just from today but also from the past. Weíll see what happens. Weíve got three weeks before the next race.

Q: (Ann Giuntini - LíEquipe) We know you are all tough competitors and it doesnít belong to us to judge you too severely; just a question: would you be ready, if there is the opportunity, to offer a victory to Mark, not at the end of the championship when you are already champion or when itís over, but during the season. If there is a tough fight between you, and you are ahead and heís behind.

SV: I think we had that question already. I think it was actually the first question that I got. I think itís something we need to think about, I need to think about but for sure, I can only say this, obviously, like I say, I made a mistake, Iím not proud of it. As I say, if I had the chance to do it again, I wouldnít do the same but obviously thereís a lot of things that need to come together, to put ourselves in a similar position but yeah, itís definitely something that will be remembered or should be remembered.

Q: (Gary Meenaghan - The National) Seb, Markís mentioned he thought about a lot of things for the last 15 laps, can you talk a bit about what you were thinking in those last 15 laps and when did you realise that youíd made the mistake?

SV: As I said, I didnít do it deliberately so I didnít realise I had made a mistake, only when I came back but by not everybodyís but the teamís reaction, I realised. I had a very short word with Mark and then it hit me quite hard and I realised that - language - I fucked up

Q: (Peter Windsor - F1 Racing) Sebastian, first lap with Fernando Alonso, did you feel anything in the impact?

SV: Yeah I was a bit surprised. Obviously I had quite a good launch and I kept the lead into Turn One. We know that Turn One is not necessarily it, thereís also Turn Two and I tried to defend and because it was very slippery I had to turn in into Turn Two and got a little bit of a hit, so Iím not sure whether it was him or someone else. But when I got the hit and looked into the mirror I saw he was quite close. I donít know what happened. Iím pretty sure he carried on after that. I think Mark passed him straight away. I was only told in the end that he didnít finish the race. I donít whether that is the reason.

Q: (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) A question to all drivers. What do you think the fans of Formula One will think when they hear or they read that the winner is saying ďIím sorry to win, the second should be here and the third says ďIím sorry to be here my team-mate that is fourth should be hereĒ?

SV: I think itís great for you because you have a lot to write about. We have quite a while until the next race itís good for you, Iím sure you donít get bored. I didnít say, I think generally, you know Iím not sorry to win, I think we both of us drove a strong race today but Mark should have won. I did the mistake. I can only repeat it now. People can think in a way what they want, they will always make up their own story, but as I said I wasnít aware until we took off our helmets really, so Iím sorry for that. But surely I will try to make up, first of all explain downstairs what happened.

MW: As I say, Iím a big sports fan and the fans of any sport will want it to be a perfect world always. We want it to be pure, we want it to be as we see - football, boxing, cycling, whatever. We want it to be real. But there is an element of naivetyÖ for me watching some sport as well and in the case of some Formula One fans watching this situation. Itís impossible for everybody to understand everything and thatís the same for me watching a football match or a Champions League match. Sometimes there are things you donít understand because sometimes there is naivety

LH: I donít have anything to say.
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin...3/3/14414.html
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      03-25-2013, 12:30 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by johanness View Post
FYI... Christian Horner in a post-race interview said they were running the same engine mapping (during their scuffle, that is).
Yep I did hear that much afterwards too, if that was indeed that case, the follow up question would be when did he dial the engine back up, pressumably very quickly. Despite that piece of info my position still stands on the behaviour of VET.
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      03-25-2013, 01:49 PM   #141
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F1 is a strange sport. As a racing driver, your goal is to be the fastest person on the course in order to stand on the highest step of the podium. The catch is that there is another person working for the same employer with that same goal in mind. If you're a true competitor, your goal is always to beat everyone.

These are the most competitive group of drivers on earth and you want them to keep up some charrade that they honestly give a shit about their teammate? Lewis' comments are laughable. He is arguably the most competitive person in the sport right now and he's playing the "aww shucks" angle now. Save it... if it was the other way around he would have stopped at nothing to pass Nico, just as he was pushing to the max to catch the Red Bulls. Racing is racing. If you're the fastest driver in the fastest car, you should win the race. Period.
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      03-25-2013, 02:01 PM   #142
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One thought to add to that... As a fan, who wants to watch two drivers just parade at 80% for the last dozen laps of a race? What is the fun in that? If you can make a clean pass on a straight in a DRS zone, I see no issue with overtaking a teammate. In that respect, I think MW was in the wrong for trying to pin VET to the wall. If any move screams of unsportsmanlike conduct, in my eyes, it was that one.
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      03-25-2013, 02:29 PM   #143
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Very complex issue, the fans are the reason the money is in the commercial deals for the teams. However, it is the money in the commercial deals that the teams fight for and not the fans' interests. It is this way in every professional sport. The fans, in the end are the reason for the money but they are not the means to the end for the participants in the sport. In the end, the goal, above all else is to win and to put on a show for the spectators second. "You can't argue with results."
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      03-25-2013, 02:38 PM   #144
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Everyone who wants to lionize the rogue driver who doesn't give a damn what anybody tells him is living in the mythological past. There's millions of dollars at stake here and you don't get a ride if they don't think you're dependable. Vettel hasn't been appologizing repeatedly because he's sorry he took a win away form Weber. He's appologizing beause he knows he has to tell everyone in the business that he's team player and he won't do it again.
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      03-25-2013, 02:42 PM   #145
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Why should he apologize to Webber if he was faster than him? That's where I am just mystified. Throw the slower driver a bone with a dozen laps left? Slower is slower. If he was driving at second place speed, he should finish in second place. The team should have also told Webber to move over because let's be honest here, the more reliable and consistent driver is not Webber so it is really to everyones benefit that Vettel finish on the top step.
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      03-25-2013, 03:00 PM   #146
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At the end of the day, a Formula One pilot is a part of a TEAM. He is the driver, not the decision maker. He is to do what his team instructs him to do. He's lucky he's a great driver or they should boot his ass off the team.
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      03-25-2013, 04:11 PM   #147
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      03-25-2013, 05:53 PM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
One thought to add to that... As a fan, who wants to watch two drivers just parade at 80% for the last dozen laps of a race? What is the fun in that? If you can make a clean pass on a straight in a DRS zone, I see no issue with overtaking a teammate. In that respect, I think MW was in the wrong for trying to pin VET to the wall. If any move screams of unsportsmanlike conduct, in my eyes, it was that one.
You do understand why they are driving at 80% though right? Tyres about to drop off and you have a comfortable lead so why would you as a team principal say to your guys to go at it and then have nothing left such that the team behind catches up.

Webber 'squeezing' was legal he was defending with a singular one directional movement.. Seb still had room to come through anyway. Agreed these guys are super competitive but you still need the team, not like they're going to change their tyres by themselves.

F1 has become the way you see it today and what you dislike about it b/c of the tyres amongst many other things. If Pirelli was to provide tyres that had low degradation such that you could drive at the limits for the whole race I agree it probably would be interesting, add to that if you had no team orders and no use of the radio such that a driver was just out there to do as he wants. The reality of it is that its not like that so it is what it is.
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      03-25-2013, 06:28 PM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Why should he apologize to Webber if he was faster than him? That's where I am just mystified. Throw the slower driver a bone with a dozen laps left? Slower is slower. If he was driving at second place speed, he should finish in second place. The team should have also told Webber to move over because let's be honest here, the more reliable and consistent driver is not Webber so it is really to everyones benefit that Vettel finish on the top step.
Webber clearly backed off the lap after he outran Vettel the first time. As pointed out before he didn't even put Vettel into the gravel like he could (and should) have when Vettel finally did pass him. We don't know who would have won if they were forced to truly fight it out, I would have liked Webber's chances even with Vettel being the better driver.
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      03-25-2013, 08:11 PM   #150
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      03-26-2013, 04:14 PM   #151
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ďWe are competing to win. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver.Ē
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      03-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #152
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      03-26-2013, 05:04 PM   #153
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Webber clearly backed off the lap after he outran Vettel the first time. As pointed out before he didn't even put Vettel into the gravel like he could (and should) have when Vettel finally did pass him. We don't know who would have won if they were forced to truly fight it out, I would have liked Webber's chances even with Vettel being the better driver.
+1

Webbo needs to leave Red Bull if he doesn't want to be treated like a #2.
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      03-26-2013, 05:16 PM   #154
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ďWe are competing to win. And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing driver.Ē
Neither of them can compare to the real character and legend of Prost and Senna.

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+1

Webbo needs to leave Red Bull if he doesn't want to be treated like a #2.
To him, that's call retirement or hiding under radar in a team like Marussia.
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