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      03-24-2013, 10:20 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by rondocap View Post
I think the Dct goes with the m3 better, feels like it was designed with it in mind.

Having said that, I have a manual porsche boxster and that compliments that car much better than the pdk I feel.

Similar with the new m5, Dct is better in that.
Believe me, if my E90 6-MT had a manual as nice as the Porsche, probably none of us would consider DCT.

We all know that the M3 manual has throws that are too vague and too long, and that the clutch is too light with a very late engagement...yet we still have fun.
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      03-24-2013, 10:29 AM   #46
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Also for repairs, guys we are driving cars that cost over 60 grand. You think this is a ford mustang or something ? You gotta pay to play .... or have a warranty.
I wish the car is still worth over 60K 6 years from now when the tranny could blow up LOL
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      03-24-2013, 10:41 AM   #47
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I see there's a novel "war" -- DCT vs MT.

Drove both versions before purchasing; DCT on track. When it works, it's nice, but is it what satisfies me? It was a no brainer. There's nothing like getting the shift to happen when you want it to happen. Always! There's nothing like knowing that you're not at the mercy of transmission software. Always. There's nothing like knowing that your transmission will never go "Limp". Always. There's nothing like knowing that your car's transmission will not need an update -- trip to the dealer. Always. In the final analysis, there's nothing like the absence of unnecessary variables to complicate a fairly simple procedure that is executable, much like code, by most human beings with a modicum of attention to detail.



Not certain that DCT will even be around in the BMW lineup ten years from now what with certain rumblings about the industry; more likely single transmission with 8 or more gears. Regardless, you're probably right about this being the last chance to purchase a new M3 with an MT, and did BMW ever conceive an engine worthy of the last iteration of the M3 coupe with a manual transmission.
I agree with the simplicity of the 6MT. It's already enough for me to worry about the S65, the subframe, electronics... The one part of the car I'm not at all worried about is the transmission. If I need a clutch, I don't have to find a specialist shop to repair it (you need to consider there aren't many of those were I live).

I only had DCT experience (on track and on autobahn/city) and really did love the transmission. But I'm very happy with my 6MT.
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      03-24-2013, 10:53 AM   #48
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I wish the car is still worth over 60K 6 years from now when the tranny could blow up LOL
Well 6s years gives you a lot of time to save, and if you can afford a Newer M3 today you must have a decent job.

Personally I plan to probably trade this car in for another BMW within 4 years.
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      03-24-2013, 11:23 AM   #49
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Ok I had DCT for 3 months now... granted it is a GREAT transmission shifts fast and convenient in traffic.. I MISS MT! I am constantly looking for manual beater (2nd car) ... I think my next M3/M4 will be MT

Just my 2 cents...
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      03-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #50
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      03-24-2013, 11:44 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio

Also for repairs, guys we are driving cars that cost over 60 grand. You think this is a ford mustang or something ? You gotta pay to play .... or have a warranty.
Okay, I confess! I got 6MT because I'm cheap. It was either this or a '07 Subaru Forrester.
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      03-24-2013, 12:03 PM   #52
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Went from 135i DCT to M3 MT last November.

The DCT is a marvel of technology and was fun, I enjoyed every minute of it. But... I kept wishing for a manual the whole time after the first couple of months wore the novelty down.

Now that I have the manual, I do not think I will ever go back. For me; simply more satisfying, more control. It could be different if I used it on the track, but I don't.
The M3 MT does take some time to get used to. I have 4000 miles on it now and it finally is getting to the point I'm getting 'smooth'. Mind you I'm old and had plenty of other manual cars before the 135 DCT experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Megabeast View Post
Ok I had DCT for 3 months now... granted it is a GREAT transmission shifts fast and convenient in traffic.. I MISS MT! I am constantly looking for manual beater (2nd car) ... I think my next M3/M4 will be MT

Just my 2 cents...
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      03-24-2013, 04:07 PM   #53
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Okay, I confess! I got 6MT because I'm cheap. It was either this or a '07 Subaru Forrester.
I cant tell if you are being sarcastic or not. But i will treat it as sarcastic.

My point is this : Getting manual or DCT is not something that should be picked with long term expenses in mind. you are spending a lot of money on this car. get it the way you want it. It simply a different class of person who buys a M3 over a mustang GT (for the most part). Yes parts on this car are expensive, keep your warranty and extend it. once its up trade it for something new or be prepared to cover repairs. There is nothing more to say!

And if you buy a used M3 with a lot of miles, and cannot afford repairs. simply do not buy a m3... Live within your means. This car is much more than a transmission also. Yes a manual will be less money to repair with long term ownership, but it what about everything else? that engine is not cheap...
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      03-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #54
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6MT is for petrol heads. You'll never have to make excuses for it.
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      03-25-2013, 02:02 AM   #55
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Personal preference.

I went MT, after borrowing my mums 2011 dct for a few weeks I was sooooo bored. It's a fantastic piece of technology, just doesn't do it for me.
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      03-25-2013, 02:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lute View Post
No question you will, but I will have a bigger smile on my face
When i shift with my DCT...than....even he has a smile on his face
This is funny as hell.
OP, I have a DCT and it is amazing for daily and track purposes. However, if I get another M3 in the future, it would be a manual.
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      03-25-2013, 08:12 AM   #57
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Thanks All. I drove a manual yesterday. It was certainly a lot more fun. I thought overall though that the DCTs acceleration was moderately quicker.

2nd Felt more torquey in the 6MT. Overall it was a fun car to drive in stick, but I have to say the gearbox isnt nearly as good as the 6MT in the 1M.
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      03-25-2013, 08:31 AM   #58
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Thanks All. I drove a manual yesterday. It was certainly a lot more fun. I thought overall though that the DCTs acceleration was moderately quicker.

2nd Felt more torquey in the 6MT. Overall it was a fun car to drive in stick, but I have to say the gearbox isnt nearly as good as the 6MT in the 1M.
Interesting that you say that, the overall gearing in 2nd gear is almost exactly the same on DCT and 6MT cars. DCT starts getting the benefit of gearing as of 3rd gear.
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      03-25-2013, 09:14 AM   #59
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Interesting that you say that, the overall gearing in 2nd gear is almost exactly the same on DCT and 6MT cars. DCT starts getting the benefit of gearing as of 3rd gear.
Well, I know why that is then. The car I drove had a full catless exhaust and tune.

So we had the same gearing but 6MT had more power. In 3rd the DCT gearing must have made up for the extra power.
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      03-25-2013, 10:38 AM   #60
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Okay, I have a little rant here. Please feel free to skip ahead to the next post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
My point is this : Getting manual or DCT is not something that should be picked with long term expenses in mind. you are spending a lot of money on this car. get it the way you want it. It simply a different class of person who buys a M3 over a mustang GT (for the most part). Yes parts on this car are expensive, keep your warranty and extend it. once its up trade it for something new or be prepared to cover repairs. There is nothing more to say!

And if you buy a used M3 with a lot of miles, and cannot afford repairs. simply do not buy a m3... Live within your means. This car is much more than a transmission also. Yes a manual will be less money to repair with long term ownership, but it what about everything else? that engine is not cheap...
With respect, I do feel you're overstating your case. (And I'm not sure what Mustangs have to do with the topic.) I don't see how buying a $60k+ (new) car should mean that the prospect of having a non-serviceable critical component like a DCT, which if it breaks could mean a ~$15k repair bill for wholesale replacement, shouldn't make you blink. If money is no object, then maybe you're not planning on keeping your M3 for long and don't sweat the drive-off-the-lot depreciation of always buying the new car that's under warranty, or perhaps you're buying cars with another zero added to the price tag. As sweet as the M3 is, it's in the middle-class price range, and it's even one of the more affordable cars among BMWs. People here spend money on their cars, perhaps more than most, but I don't think that means people here don't value that investment.

And a car like the E9x M3 is, for many, an automotive investment. Yes, anything BMW may strike some as being too ostentatious and indulgent to be a reasonable car purchase. The thing about BMWs that they, and even short-term BMW owners, may not appreciate is that the engineering is pretty amazing and that BMWs tend to last. Over the decades, well-cared-for BMWs have proven to be a good investment in terms of having a quality, stylish, performant ride for years and years and miles and miles, for less than the cost of flipping for a new car every three years. (It's also an investment in the joy of driving such a great machine.) The BMWs that don't last are usually ones with particular pernicious engineering problems with a particular crucial component.

I agree that the S65 is a complicated engine and may prove to be expensive to maintain. But so far the engine is proving to be a winner, one of the best to come from BMW. The 6MT is a variation on something BMW has been doing for decades. On the other hand, while yes, so far the DCT is looking to be solid, it's still new technology without a lot of high-mileage data points, and with "lifetime" fluids and not much in serviceable parts, it's a black box.

I prefer having the track record there. I also happen to like manual shifting, especially on a performance car.

So yes, I consider it quite reasonable for people to weigh the various factors that can play into the long-term value of a car, even the current M3.

My current M3 is not my first M3, nor is it my first BMW. My 1998 M3 racecar has 150k+ hard-driven miles. I have a 13yo 5 series still running like a new car. I had an E21 with close to 20 years and 200k miles on it, running fine and looking great, before it was totalled. And I had a '11 M3 with DCT, and had no complaints, aside from some of the nanny features, and it was head-and-shoulders better than the automatic on the 335xi I leased a few years ago and also loved. All of them are great cars, and I wouldn't consider any of them only for their short-term value. And I wouldn't deign to say that anyone who values money invested in a well-made car is somehow in the wrong class and shouldn't buy an M3. It's a BMW, after all!

This the unbiased opinion of a BMW fangirl, offered with a smile. Rant over.
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      03-25-2013, 01:09 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by llis View Post
Okay, I have a little rant here. Please feel free to skip ahead to the next post.



With respect, I do feel you're overstating your case. (And I'm not sure what Mustangs have to do with the topic.) I don't see how buying a $60k+ (new) car should mean that the prospect of having a non-serviceable critical component like a DCT, which if it breaks could mean a ~$15k repair bill for wholesale replacement, shouldn't make you blink. If money is no object, then maybe you're not planning on keeping your M3 for long and don't sweat the drive-off-the-lot depreciation of always buying the new car that's under warranty, or perhaps you're buying cars with another zero added to the price tag. As sweet as the M3 is, it's in the middle-class price range, and it's even one of the more affordable cars among BMWs. People here spend money on their cars, perhaps more than most, but I don't think that means people here don't value that investment.

And a car like the E9x M3 is, for many, an automotive investment. Yes, anything BMW may strike some as being too ostentatious and indulgent to be a reasonable car purchase. The thing about BMWs that they, and even short-term BMW owners, may not appreciate is that the engineering is pretty amazing and that BMWs tend to last. Over the decades, well-cared-for BMWs have proven to be a good investment in terms of having a quality, stylish, performant ride for years and years and miles and miles, for less than the cost of flipping for a new car every three years. (It's also an investment in the joy of driving such a great machine.) The BMWs that don't last are usually ones with particular pernicious engineering problems with a particular crucial component.

I agree that the S65 is a complicated engine and may prove to be expensive to maintain. But so far the engine is proving to be a winner, one of the best to come from BMW. The 6MT is a variation on something BMW has been doing for decades. On the other hand, while yes, so far the DCT is looking to be solid, it's still new technology without a lot of high-mileage data points, and with "lifetime" fluids and not much in serviceable parts, it's a black box.

I prefer having the track record there. I also happen to like manual shifting, especially on a performance car.

So yes, I consider it quite reasonable for people to weigh the various factors that can play into the long-term value of a car, even the current M3.

My current M3 is not my first M3, nor is it my first BMW. My 1998 M3 racecar has 150k+ hard-driven miles. I have a 13yo 5 series still running like a new car. I had an E21 with close to 20 years and 200k miles on it, running fine and looking great, before it was totalled. And I had a '11 M3 with DCT, and had no complaints, aside from some of the nanny features, and it was head-and-shoulders better than the automatic on the 335xi I leased a few years ago and also loved. All of them are great cars, and I wouldn't consider any of them only for their short-term value. And I wouldn't deign to say that anyone who values money invested in a well-made car is somehow in the wrong class and shouldn't buy an M3. It's a BMW, after all!

This the unbiased opinion of a BMW fangirl, offered with a smile. Rant over.
Haha was about to reply to him, but I think you just saved me some time. Just because I bought an M3 doesn't mean I have to pay to play. As you, I prefer something with a track record, and more importantly can be easily serviced. I do all my own work, and had to problems changing the MT fluid on my M3.

And should something go wrong with DCT, I'm stuck with taking the car to the dealership which =
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      03-25-2013, 01:21 PM   #62
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And should something go wrong with DCT, I'm stuck with taking the car to the dealership which =
Because swapping out worn syncromesh rings on an MT is something you could do in your lunchtime.

LOL you MT guys are funny...these threads always fill up with insecure MT owners making ever more extravagant reasons why they made the best choice.
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      03-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #63
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Because swapping out worn syncromesh rings on an MT is something you could do in your lunchtime.
If that's what it comes down to and I need a new tranny, then no problem. If it's a worn clutch, no problem. I'm more than willing to pay to play for that.

Try to find someone in SC that's willing to do a DCT swap outside the 1 dealership we have. Keep in mnd, I plan to keep this car well past 150k miles if everything goes to plan.
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      03-25-2013, 01:53 PM   #64
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Thats why you buy a warranty...and I'm far more concerned the engine will fail than I am the DCT.
The DCT is built to handle 50% more torque than the M3s engine produces which is why failures are so rare.
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      03-25-2013, 02:37 PM   #65
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insecure MT owners making ever more extravagant reasons why they made the best choice
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      03-25-2013, 02:55 PM   #66
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Because swapping out worn syncromesh rings on an MT is something you could do in your lunchtime.

LOL you MT guys are funny...these threads always fill up with insecure MT owners making ever more extravagant reasons why they made the best choice.
Nice edit there. I spent months looking for the MY (key word) M3. I don't have to make any excuses to a random guy in England.

And for the record, I absolutely enjoyed driving the DCT M3 all over Europe.
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