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      06-15-2012, 12:36 AM   #1
radiantm3
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My Cantrell Motorsports Brake Duct Kit writeup (with BBK)

So I installed this kit today and figured I'd share my experience with it since I have a slightly different setup than stock. Some of you might be wondering why bother with brake ducting when I have a BBK already? Well my front pads are wearing extremely fast and I'm hoping a bit of cooling might preserve a bit more life in them. I also have the challenge gt3 diffuser which has brake ducting built in so why not make use of them.

Challenge GT3 diffuser with brake duct inlets in the front.



Brakes and rotors off. Backing plate fitment is good. It requires 2 spacers between the provided bolts for the bottom 2 mounting points.



As you can see, there's plenty of room for the BBK.



Another view from above. You can see the 3 mounting points.



Hose attached. The Cantrell kit is all 2.5" ducting and the Challenge diffuser happened to be 3". I was worried at first, but the hose fits snug enough on the inside of the diffuser duct so I just fed about 3" of hose into it without tying it down. It definitely won't come out with that bottom zip tie in place. You can also see some duct tape I put on parts of the hose where I thought it might rub. Just an extra precaution.



Here's a shot with the wheel well back in. I had to cut a small part of it to fit around the hose.



Brakes are back on.



Here's a top view so you can see how close the backing plate is to the rotor. The air hits the inside center area of the rotor.



A shot from the front under carriage so you can see where the diffuser ducting ends and the hose enters.



Here's a view from under with the wheels on and pointing straight ahead.



[b]And here's a view with the wheel at full lock. You can see the tire slightly rubbing on the hose. At just slightly less than full lock, it doesn't rub so I think as long as I pay attention it shouldn't be an issue at all. If I do rub too often, my first solution will be to flatten the hose a bit where it does rub. The hose is structured with some pretty strong metal wire so I can make part of the hose into more of an oval shape. Hopefully that will fix it.



So does it work?

I drove around town today with only one side setup and did a couple moderately hard stops as well as driving at around 45 mph. The rotor with the brake cooling was about 10-15 degrees cooler than the side without cooling. I checked the rotor temps on 2 occasions with an infrared temp gauge and the results were pretty much the same.

I'm heading out to Laguna Seca again this Sunday so I'll be recording more relevant data. I recorded front rotor temps last month at the same track so I'll have hard numbers to compare. Stay tuned.
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      06-15-2012, 01:58 AM   #2
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That's awesome!
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      06-15-2012, 07:14 AM   #3
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What size (width) front tires are you running?
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      06-15-2012, 08:21 AM   #4
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Awesome review. Very thorough with the pics looking forward to track impressions as well.
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      06-15-2012, 08:37 AM   #5
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Thank you!!!
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      06-15-2012, 08:59 AM   #6
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Very cool. Nicely done.
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      06-15-2012, 10:03 AM   #7
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Cool, look forward to having some hard data after the track testing. How are you measuring rotor temps at the track? I assume temp paint, since lasers can't go 1000+f ?
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      06-15-2012, 11:19 AM   #8
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Great write-up, thanks for posting.
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      06-15-2012, 11:31 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgdog View Post
What size (width) front tires are you running?
255/35/19 AD08's in the front. Keep in mind the sidewalls on these tires are very tall too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Cool, look forward to having some hard data after the track testing. How are you measuring rotor temps at the track? I assume temp paint, since lasers can't go 1000+f ?
My rotor temps stayed around 500 degrees fahrenheit at the last event. I'll probably cover up the brake cooling intake area for a session to get updated readings since data from the same day is probably better.
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      06-15-2012, 02:05 PM   #10
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Great write up and photos!
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      06-21-2012, 09:00 PM   #11
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Thanks for the write-up. Any update?
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      06-21-2012, 11:24 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Thanks for the write-up. Any update?
I recorded temps on Sunday, but I couldn't compare temps with my last event because air temp was about 20-25 degrees warmer this past Sunday. But my rotor temps were about the same so I guess that's a good thing considering air temp was a lot higher. I was going to cover up the brake ducts for a session to get a more accurate comparison, but I ended up having to change my front pads and then bed them in in the middle of the day. So I just gave up on testing and enjoyed the rest of the day. I'll be at Thunderhill in less than 2 weeks so I'll try to record temps with the brake ducts open and closed then.
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      06-22-2012, 10:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgdog
What size (width) front tires are you running?
What are your wheel specs (width and offset)?
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      06-22-2012, 12:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
My rotor temps stayed around 500 degrees fahrenheit at the last event. I'll probably cover up the brake cooling intake area for a session to get updated readings since data from the same day is probably better.
That's very hard to believe. Normal rotor temps are 1000+. Are you pulling into the pits after a cool down lap and seeing 500? If you think about it, rotors frequently get to 1000+; iron does not glow orange at 500 degrees.

Also, if the temps are the same as last event with no cooling but ambient temps are 20 degrees higher, that is not a good sign for the ducts. Ambient has little effect on rotor temps. Ambient has a major effect on tire temp because they only get to ~200, but since rotors get way way hotter than that the ambient being 20 deg off doesn't matter so much.
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      06-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
That's very hard to believe. Normal rotor temps are 1000+. Are you pulling into the pits after a cool down lap and seeing 500? If you think about it, rotors frequently get to 1000+; iron does not glow orange at 500 degrees.

Also, if the temps are the same as last event with no cooling but ambient temps are 20 degrees higher, that is not a good sign for the ducts. Ambient has little effect on rotor temps. Ambient has a major effect on tire temp because they only get to ~200, but since rotors get way way hotter than that the ambient being 20 deg off doesn't matter so much.
Well I'm running a brembo 380gt kit so heat was never an issue. I check temps in the paddock right after my session is over and around 500 degrees is what my rotors read. Track layout makes a big difference in how much braking you are doing as well. I'm not hitting speeds over 115-120 at Laguna Seca.

My rotors aren't glowing either. Those are just a very bright yellow caliper.
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      06-22-2012, 12:25 PM   #16
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What are your wheel specs (width and offset)?
Stock 359m wheels on the street.
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      06-22-2012, 12:30 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Well I'm running a brembo 380gt kit so heat was never an issue. I check temps in the paddock right after my session is over and around 500 degrees is what my rotors read. Track layout makes a big difference in how much braking you are doing as well. I'm not hitting speeds over 115-120 at Laguna Seca.
Right, and 380mm plus some cool down time can cause the temps to show that. But if you want more valuable data and have some measuring device that can read that high, it is much more beneficial to pull into the hot pits and get an immediate reading. Same goes for tire temps etc. they average 15-20+ degrees drop from hot track time to paddock and you'll get more useful data if you read them in the hot pits.

Do you do a half cool down lap or so prior to seeing that temp? The reason I'm concerned is the ducts are probably functioning better than your numbers suggest. If one starts at 1100 and one starts at 1000 they may still reach 500 ish at around the same time.

I don't mean to seem critical, your setup looks great! But I think it is lowering temps more than the data so far shows, as a result of excessive cooling before measuring.
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      06-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Right, and 380mm plus some cool down time can cause the temps to show that. But if you want more valuable data and have some measuring device that can read that high, it is much more beneficial to pull into the hot pits and get an immediate reading. Same goes for tire temps etc. they average 15-20+ degrees drop from hot track time to paddock and you'll get more useful data if you read them in the hot pits.

Do you do a half cool down lap or so prior to seeing that temp? The reason I'm concerned is the ducts are probably functioning better than your numbers suggest. If one starts at 1100 and one starts at 1000 they may still reach 500 ish at around the same time.

I don't mean to seem critical, your setup looks great! But I think it is lowering temps more than the data so far shows, as a result of excessive cooling before measuring.
Yea I guess that makes sense. I'll see if I can stop in the hot pits the next time without a cool down lap. Thanks!
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      03-07-2013, 12:09 PM   #19
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I decided to re-visit this thread now that the next upgrade on my project is the AP racing BBK thats coming. Your pictures are amazing, and one of the most detailed I've seen. After walking around pit lane at a few racing events, I was beginning to notice the impressive size of some of the ducting people are using. Your post also gives a pretty good idea of what to expect with the install (Including wheel well cutting, which is not an issue). Again, a job well done
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      03-17-2013, 09:27 AM   #20
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to the OP, are there any updates on this combo of cantrell+brembo, appreciate it
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      03-17-2013, 05:35 PM   #21
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to the OP, are there any updates on this combo of cantrell+brembo, appreciate it
Nothing other than they seem to work, but aren't a necessity at all with a BBK. I do feel like they extended the life of my track pads, but no hard data here.
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      03-19-2013, 08:58 PM   #22
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I have this same brake duct system on stock rotors, calipers and track pads. This is one of these items that's difficult to draw a conclusion. Like the OP states, it's probably helpful but hard to know without back to back testing under the same conditions. I've never had brake fade at VIR so ducting kit made no difference there. I've had brake fade at Road Atlanta and I still get it with the brake duct kit. Do I go longer before fade starts? I don't know. Do my pads last longer? Not that I can tell. The one thing I can say with a fair degree of certainty is that once I have fade (not just a little but good rippin' fade) that the recovery back to usable brakes is quicker with the ducting kit. So hard to tell how much it helps without data, but it does help, though in the stock brake form, it's certainly no cure for fade on certain tracks were fade is an issue.
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