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      03-10-2013, 01:47 AM   #23
robotk
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In my opinion, the e90 m3 is the greatest sports sedan ever made, and with the way things are going with turbos and hybrid performance cars, possibly the greatest NA sports sedan ever. Obviously the e60 guys would argue this.

Anyway - since you already have an m3, I'd probably go with c63 with those choices.
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      03-10-2013, 07:16 AM   #24
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IS-F. Great gas mileage, reliability (go to their forums, nobody has problems). I've owned a brand new C class and got rid of it because of electrical problems. If you're picking up a used IS-F vs. a used C63, it's a no brainer IMO.
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      03-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #25
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Well I would argue that you are an IS-F owner but are reading and commenting on an m3 forum. Whether conciously or unconciously something is clearly steering you towards an m3. I for one have never even thought about visiting an ISF forum being an m3 owner.

Looks like another unsatisfied ISF owners wishing he got an m3!
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      03-10-2013, 12:48 PM   #26
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They all great cars...trust me the ISF will not disappointing you.
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      03-11-2013, 09:13 AM   #27
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To many Gears in the IS-F. Plus Fake exhaust tips.
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      03-11-2013, 09:45 AM   #28
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I test driven brand new ISF while driving M3.
Those are in complete different realms.
ISF is well sorted car, but is no where near M3 in terms of driver involvement/excitement. The steering feel, the engine noise, suspension... Not on the same level.
To me it was closer to S4, just faster. ISF is certainly fast but lacks in overall driver engagement. Also after all the rebates it came very close in price to 335 or s4.
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      03-11-2013, 10:11 AM   #29
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C63 and bolt up that bad boy
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      03-11-2013, 08:01 PM   #30
M3takesNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquesm3 View Post
To many Gears in the IS-F. Plus Fake exhaust tips.
Especially for a quite torquey low-revving v8. The m3 actually could have used 1 more gear quite nicely to keep it 1k rpms more towards peak power in each gear but the ISF has 360 foot pounds and 6500 rpms redline and 8 is way too many
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      03-11-2013, 11:46 PM   #31
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On the flipside, given it was the FIRST performance car lexus has pretty much ever made, I have to give them a ton of credit for making a car that essentially was competitive to the m3 and the rest of the bunch. Not a bad start to the F line of cars. The next ISF will have a v8, probably have 475 hp and a new chassis in which they learned a ton from the old one. Prepare for the new ISF to put a pounding on the m3 and for those who like a v8 naturally aspirated, ISF will likely be the only real choice
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      03-12-2013, 09:53 AM   #32
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Top Gear already did all the work on this- the M3 won convincingly over the IS-F.
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      03-12-2013, 12:02 PM   #33
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I hate lexus cars, however, I owned an isf since new bought in 08, traded it in for my new M3...I don't have one complaint about the ISF, Dynamically it was great, best automatic I've ever owned, that is also the only reason I got rid of it...I needed a manual in my life again! Resale is also outstanding. Needless to say I prefer my M3 eventhough the ISF may have been quicker.
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      03-12-2013, 12:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dkhan23 View Post
C63 or M3 dont even think about the isf.
Agreed, I would get the M3 obv...

I found a nice C63 from a private seller though if you go that route - http://www.globalautosports.com/car/...dan-62215.html
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      03-12-2013, 02:07 PM   #35
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looks like the ISF might be done.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11303125...inued---report

Last edited by BMoney; 03-12-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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      03-12-2013, 02:25 PM   #36
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What are you looking for the car to do?
If you are looking for pure driving excitement and thrill I would go with the m3. If you are looking for something that will be more of a DD I would go with either the IS-F or the C63. Between the two the C63 will definitely be more exciting and engaging, and will be a good complement to your m3. I personally don't understand the point of an IS-F; these type of cars are designed to provide the driver with a sense of thrill and excitement, but the IS-F leaves me feeling to detached from the driving experience. I would go with a regular lexus over the IS-F and save some money. Also, why restrict yourself to only these 3?

Last edited by m3dude; 03-12-2013 at 09:56 PM. Reason: new information about posting noted
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      03-14-2013, 12:48 AM   #37
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Sorry but above you drive a c300 so clearly there is no way you can give any useful advice on which one makes a better daily driver! The m3 is the best of the 3 daily driver especially if DCT. Its automatic mode with 7 gears is so smooth. The isf auto is constantly shifting with 8 gears. The m3 is nicer interior and ride is much more compliant

The m3 is the epitomy of a daily driver sports car.
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      03-14-2013, 03:03 PM   #38
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I should have probably been more clear in my post. Without a doubt out of the 3 the m3 is the best all around car, and if I only had one car I would choose the m3 hands down... but the OP already has one in manual. As I said, it really depends on what the OP wants the car to do. If I were in the OP's shoes, and already had a "driver's car" I would add some versatility to my garage by way of the c63. A huge benefit of the c63 is the torque it has relative to the m3, which will allow it to be a much better car for driving in town, traffic, and highway driving. I am also assuming that the manual m3 would be used for the weekend/fun drives, while the DD will be used for more mundane day to day activities. But to each his own, this is just my opinion.
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      03-14-2013, 08:01 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3dude View Post
I should have probably been more clear in my post. Without a doubt out of the 3 the m3 is the best all around car, and if I only had one car I would choose the m3 hands down... but the OP already has one in manual. As I said, it really depends on what the OP wants the car to do. If I were in the OP's shoes, and already had a "driver's car" I would add some versatility to my garage by way of the c63. A huge benefit of the c63 is the torque it has relative to the m3, which will allow it to be a much better car for driving in town, traffic, and highway driving. I am also assuming that the manual m3 would be used for the weekend/fun drives, while the DD will be used for more mundane day to day activities. But to each his own, this is just my opinion.
Again you drive a c300 so saying one car is better than another is just silly on points like better daily driver. There has never been an m3 owners who thinks the m3 has inadequate power or torque for around town! It essentially the same torque as a stock 335 at about 300 foot pounds.

Anyway I would not tell you that your c300 is a good or bad drivers car as I have never nor would ever want to drive on.
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      03-15-2013, 12:44 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Well I would argue that you are an IS-F owner but are reading and commenting on an m3 forum. Whether conciously or unconciously something is clearly steering you towards an m3. I for one have never even thought about visiting an ISF forum being an m3 owner.

Looks like another unsatisfied ISF owners wishing he got an m3!
I'm a car enthusiast so I am on forums from gencoupe to rennlist and a bunch in between including tundra and charger forums. I'm not a fan of any particular brand or even style of car. That's why I'm on this forum. Not to mention, this forum is more active than any of the other car forums (and also has the biggest fanboys).

For a used DD, an IS-F will prove to be significantly better than the C63 (and M3 for that matter). First off, fuel efficiency is a big deal. Just the gas difference alone is a thousand or two a year. The reliability is a huge factor - go to clublexus and see how many guys had big major problems. You don't need to buy a 2-3K warrantee after you buy a used one. Everybody talks about the big torque of the 6.2 motor but the F with the short gearing has no problem spinning out. That's the TWO reasons to get a used F over a used C. What's the benefit of the C? The big loud exhaust? The F with the 5.0 isn't exactly wimpy either. Mine's got full exhaust and has 470 hp (about). I can hear it from a mile away when I have somebody else drive it - sounds kind of Nascar. LOL

Here's two of my cars. Since I've gotten the TTS, the F sits in the garage as a garage queen now.

What he SHOULD do trade in his M3 for an IS-F for the DD and get a real sports car... One that doesn't have to make compromises.
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      03-15-2013, 01:08 PM   #41
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If gas mileage is even in the consideration don't you agree any of these cars are silly? For me gas mileage is not even in the stratosphere of mattering.

try looking at the gear ratios for the m3 dct and lexus and then apply the same statement about short gearing to the m3 and you see that the m3 also has no problem spinning out and applying torque down low
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      03-15-2013, 01:17 PM   #42
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For your convenience. I even did the gear mulplication for you for the first 2 gears. You can mulply it by each cars engine torque within the appropriate powerband to see the m3 puts down as much more more torque to the ground in its powerband than the lexus and therefore given the m3 weighs less has more torque in any gear within its powerband felt to the ground.

This is where placebo or misunderstanding of an engine torque number gets people to rave about high torque and not account for gearing and powerband

BMW M3 DCT
Gear / Ratio / Max Speed / RPM drop on upshift
1st 4.780 44 (gear mulplication factor of 15.2
2nd 2.933 71 5200 ( 9.25)
3rd 2.153 97 6200
4th 1.678 124 6500
5th 1.390 150 6900
6th 1.203 173 7300
7th 1.000 208 7000
Final Ratio 3.154
Redline 8400

ISF
1st-4.6 (gear mulplication factor of 13.5
2-2.72 (7,9)
3-1.86
4.1.46
FINAL-2.937
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      03-15-2013, 02:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
What he SHOULD do trade in his M3 for an IS-F for the DD and get a real sports car... One that doesn't have to make compromises.
thats pretty cool, and i think all of us wish we could do that, but man you have like 200k tied up in those two cars. many of us cant afford that unfortunately

love your cars, but find it odd that you dd the sports car and the automatic sedan sits in the garage.

but hey, to each their own, badass stable!
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      03-15-2013, 10:12 PM   #44
ToothDoc
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Thanks for the compliments. I reread my post and it sounds kind of douchey LOL. Didn't mean to come out that way.

I DD the Turbo because it's newer and has awd and snow tires. And since I paid a lot for it, I'm going to get my money's out of it. I actually had sold the F and had seller's remorse and rebought the same one again. LOL. Missed the uncorked V8 sound. Turbo sounds good but so does an uncorked V8. I'm keeping the F for tinkering and tracking. It's slower and easier to drive and it's safer due to the slight understeering vs. the Turbo. Plus I don't get track insurance and I don't need to total the Turbo. I'm still a relative novice at road racing. I'm at the 3 minute/lap at autobahn country club level but that's with traffic and needing to be waved by. Last time I went, only the C6 and Z06 corvettes weren't passable in the 'novice' group. I'm going to intermediate group this coming year.

Look at those ratios. Yeah, the F is taller in the first two gears - but if you take the ratio of the torque of both engines and the ratio of those gears, the IS-F actually has more torque to the wheels in the first two gears ---> in a rolling start, the F will beat an M3. DCT having launch control (allowing for a clutch drop) and a manual M3 (with a clutch drop) will take off faster from a dig. Having said that, any car doing 0-60 in 4.0 seconds is more a test of traction so all this is a moot point anyways. FWIW, mine did 3.7 0-60 with a 1 foot rollout at the dragstrip with mickey thompsons. On the street with NO rollout, it gets 4.0 with sticky mickeys. With PSS, I might get lucky if I break 4.3. These are with VBOX. I also trap 120.1 according to VBOX in the 1/4 and my scale (I have a set of balancing scales) says my F weighs 3523 pounds lightly fueled (drag race trim). But FULL interior just gutted trunk. Mods are headers, exhaust, coilovers, wheels, brake rotors and lithium battery. Last time at the strip, I ran an E60M5 SMG II and trapped 2 mph faster so I was walking him. So it makes sense since I'm about 470 hp and he was 500 but my car was about 500 pounds less.

I might not be driving an M3 around, but that doesn't disqualify me from being a car enthusiast. And, FWIW, I do have an M - just an SUV and it's our family car, wife's pick-up-the-kids car.
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