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      03-02-2013, 06:50 AM   #1
Accelerometer
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Running PS2 Front / PSS Rear

Hi Guys,
It's time to swap out the front tires off of my E90 and I would like to switch off of the OEM PS2s and onto Pilot Super Sports. Not a huge fan of running mismatched sets but the rears still have a decent amount of life in them. Any harm in running new PSSs in the front and PS2s in the rear?
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      03-02-2013, 06:54 AM   #2
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Don't do it.... Not recommended. Different handling characteristics.
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      03-02-2013, 07:42 AM   #3
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The thread title is the opposite of what you are trying to say.

Anyway, when My rear PS2's were worn, I switched them out with PSS. Now it's been almost a year and a half since I've had PS2 Fronts and PSS Rears. At the limit, the car sometimes understeers since the fronts have less grip than the rears. Other than that I haven't had any issues. I love the PSS; they have more grip and they last double the amount of time/mileage compared to Conti3's and PS2's.
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      03-02-2013, 10:52 AM   #4
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I hate running mismatched tires and I'm not exactly recommending it but you are going from PS2 to PSS not PS2 to say RE-11. I think the difference against running all the same tires will be there but it will be less substantial than running another tire brand that is 100% different in compound and tread. If you can bare with it you should be ok.. I'm running PSS in the front right now and AD08's in the rear. My front AD08's wore off so I bought a whole set of PSS because of the $70 kickback and I am hating the way the car feels right now. On the other hand I can sell the rear AD08's rather than waiting for them to scrub off but I will get next to nothing for them.. the dilemma
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      03-02-2013, 11:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahmood07 View Post
The thread title is the opposite of what you are trying to say.

Anyway, when My rear PS2's were worn, I switched them out with PSS. Now it's been almost a year and a half since I've had PS2 Fronts and PSS Rears. At the limit, the car sometimes understeers since the fronts have less grip than the rears. Other than that I haven't had any issues. I love the PSS; they have more grip and they last double the amount of time/mileage compared to Conti3's and PS2's.
Wow. There is that much difference between the pss and ps2.
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      03-02-2013, 01:24 PM   #6
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I don't understand how a 220 wear rating has less grip than a 300 rating. The wear rating is just like how soft a compound it is. The lower the number the softer the compound.
I personally am swapping out the stock worn rears for the PSS and will do the same with the fronts when they are worn. I don't track the car or I would get a much softer compound.
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      03-05-2013, 12:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic03inSC View Post
I don't understand how a 220 wear rating has less grip than a 300 rating. The wear rating is just like how soft a compound it is. The lower the number the softer the compound.
I personally am swapping out the stock worn rears for the PSS and will do the same with the fronts when they are worn. I don't track the car or I would get a much softer compound.
This is one of the most common sources of confusion. The wear rating does not tell you anything specific about grip. It tells you about wear. You might make a guess that a tire with low wear will have high grip. But you would often be wrong.

A few examples:

1) Low rolling resistance tires. Tires that are built for low rolling resistance have very poor traction compared to a max performance tire. But optimizing for low rolling resistance can give a tire shorter tread life. So you could have a tire with low grip AND low treadwear. For example, the OE tire on the first gen Honda Insight has a 260 wear number and isn't even average for an all season tire in terms of grip. Such is the price of maximizing fuel economy.

2) Better technology. As tire manufacturers improve technology, they are able to add both durability and traction. So a newer tire, like the PSS, may both outgrip and outlast an older tire like the PS2. For any given level of technology there is often a direct tradeoff between grip and life, but technology is always advancing. Just like the engines of today often make more power AND get better fuel economy than equivalent engines of yesteryear.

3) Inaccurate numbers. Treadwear numbers are fairly arbitrary. Different tire makers use different scales. Some manufacturers deliberately interpret their test results toward higher or lower numbers depending on how they want to portray the tire.

Sorry for the rant, but so many people put so much stock in such a misleading number that I feel the need to try to educate.
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      03-05-2013, 12:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteNJ View Post
Hi Guys,
It's time to swap out the front tires off of my E90 and I would like to switch off of the OEM PS2s and onto Pilot Super Sports. Not a huge fan of running mismatched sets but the rears still have a decent amount of life in them. Any harm in running new PSSs in the front and PS2s in the rear?
I never like to run mismatched tires, and never have except for testing purposes. Michelin specifically recommends against mixing the PSS and PS2. A matched set of PS2's will be more rewarding to drive than a mix of PS2 and PSS under most conditions.

Can you walk in a mismatched set of sneakers, sure. Would you go out and play basketball in them? Not if you had the choice.
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      03-10-2013, 12:41 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben@tirerack View Post

Can you walk in a mismatched set of sneakers, sure. Would you go out and play basketball in them? Not if you had the choice.
Agreed. Running two sets of high performing (mismatched) tires probably won't cause any issues if you drive it like a regular car. But if you track or drive it near the limits you may find it really changes how the car behaves.

You could consider buying all four and selling the rears as used.
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      03-10-2013, 01:42 PM   #10
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Thanks guys. My gut was telling me this was a bad idea. Glad the experts confirm this. Will be mounting a full set of PSSs or Extremecontact DWs as soon as the car comes in.
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      03-10-2013, 01:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris s View Post
Don't do it.... Not recommended. Different handling characteristics.
Meeh ..I ran Pzeros upfront and PSS in the back b/c the tread on the Pzeros up front were still good, haven't noticed any changes to handling characteristics.
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      03-10-2013, 02:02 PM   #12
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Don't track my car, but I replaced the rear PS2s with PSS before the fronts. Ran the car about six months that way. Very happy to have all four new PSS tires now, of course.
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      03-10-2013, 02:45 PM   #13
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I debated this back and forth before hitting my first track day this year. I had fairly new PSS 275 rear and 255 PS2 front in great condition and ended up putting 255 PSS on front prior to my track day due to understeer concerns. Well I'm pretty glad I did because the car still understeered and it would have been a lot worse I'm sure if I had the less grippy rubber up front. Yeah it cost me a bit of money to do this but I was able to sell the PS2s for a fair price on craigslist.
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      03-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #14
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On a daily driver, you're not going to notice a difference unless you're driving irresponsibly. The front and rear of a car always have inconsistent grip characteristics because of weight distribution, spring stiffness, and transient load.

If you're competing, then the difference in handling caused by using a different tyre on the front than the rear is something a competent driver can readily account for though it might not be optimal for performance. The difference might be dialed out with suspension and pressure adjustments, anyhow.

Is your intention to run this configuration permanently, or only until you can afford to buy a full set?
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      03-10-2013, 06:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBlaszczak View Post
On a daily driver, you're not going to notice a difference unless you're driving irresponsibly. The front and rear of a car always have inconsistent grip characteristics because of weight distribution, spring stiffness, and transient load.

If you're competing, then the difference in handling caused by using a different tyre on the front than the rear is something a competent driver can readily account for though it might not be optimal for performance. The difference might be dialed out with suspension and pressure adjustments, anyhow.

Is your intention to run this configuration permanently, or only until you can afford to buy a full set?
Only temporarily the rears are at 7/32", once they wear down to 4/32 I would swap them out. It isn't a question of affordability I just don't want to waste away two perfectly good tires. I can't store them so they will most likely be recycled. I plan on doing a few conservative Track and AutoX sessions this spring/summer.
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      03-11-2013, 10:09 AM   #16
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I'm also waiting to scrub off my tires before replacing them with a matching set on all four corners, but FWIW, I've run mismatched F/R street tires at my six most recent track schools, and the M3 handled great. Would it have handled even better with matching F/R tires? Maybe, I can't say for sure. But to the OP's original question, I don't think there's necessarily any harm in running PS2/PSS. It's not like running winter tires in the front and r-compounds in the back.
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      03-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #17
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You should be fine with PSS rear and PS2 fronts. All it'll do is increase rear grip a bit and so on turn in it will understeer a bit more if you are driving hard. No harm at all, you just need to adjust your driving to suit the tire set up... and your lap times may not be as fast as if you had matching tires.

Under regular street driving you will never notice a difference.
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      03-11-2013, 03:21 PM   #18
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Just replaced today my rear ps2 with PSS, while keeping the front ps2.

All I noticed is much better grip at take-offs, very impressive. Car is driving like a dream, tried a few hard cornering, no problem at all from mismatching the front and rears.


Late edit: I get a bit of under steer on damp conditions though
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      03-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #19
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Thanks for the thread, guys. I'm in the same situation, have tread left on fronts (PS2s), but need new rears (going w PSS). Probably will buy all four, mount the rears and see how it feels - hate to waste tires with life still in them... Have a driving weekend in Arkansas planned for late April, and my first track day with this car planned for June.

Any others have experience with this?
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      03-22-2013, 06:22 PM   #20
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With mismatched fronts and rears, your car will handle differently than it would with the same rubber at all four corners. The difference won't be dramatic. Depending on your skill level, it might not even be noticeable.
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      03-22-2013, 07:17 PM   #21
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I am running Conti DW up front and PSS in the rear. The car handles just fine. Too many "chicken littles" in this thread.
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      03-22-2013, 09:11 PM   #22
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I got a nail in one of my rear tires about 6 months ago. I replaced the rears with PSS and kept the front PS2 (which are fairly new). I've had absolutely no adverse reactions from the car. I agree with the opinions set forth in that you may experience a little extra understeer at the limit.

I simply can't make myself throw away 2 perfect good, expensive front tires either.
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