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      03-07-2013, 11:14 PM   #1
Lucky1
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Toyota FT-86 vs Honda S2000

I've been reading rumours about a convertible version of the Toyobaru coming and now they're confirmed:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/t...ble-2013-03-01


I realize the Toyota has 2+2 seating and a boxer layout, DI engine but how revolutionary is this car really? Didn't the Honda S2000 offer a similar driving experience and performance ten years earlier? What, if anything, do you 1Addicts think the consumer gets ten years later in the Toyota/Subaru collaboration that they couldn't have gotten before?
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      03-08-2013, 10:38 AM   #2
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This is a really interesting point. These days you can have an S2000 for less than the GT-86 and get the same if not better performance. However I think the Toyota/Subaru has better looks. Plus you get an updated interior and 2 extra seats in the back. I think that it is a bit overpriced however for what you get. Maybe I'm wrong, others can chime in on this one...
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      03-08-2013, 02:05 PM   #3
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Well first is the price point. The s2k was 50 grand new here. So or a new car you are getting a good value. The convertible, to me, is a complete waste of what the car represents (no unlike the e93 m3 in my eyes). Less rigidity and more weight. The interior is hardly updated. Ill take my s2k interior build quality and materials over the budget interior in the Toyota.

As for performance, the s2k offers more for less in today's marketplace. I mean you can get a well cared for CR version for less than the Toyota. I drove the subie and frankly was underwhelmed. Ill take an AP1 s2k over that any day. The engine felt weak and sounded pretty rough in comparison to the F series.

It's a great starter car for enthusiasts who are on a budget, want a good handling, rear driven car with a warranty and want to learn how to handle reasonable power before stepping up to higher horsepower. I compare this car more to the 4th/5th gen prelude with 200-220 horses without the interior build quality and rwd.
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      03-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #4
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It's more about the powerband and torque. The S2000 needs the piss to be revved out of it if you want any kind of power so it's great for tracks while the GT86's is much more linear and has enough torque to get you to slide through corners and such at lower speeds with its abundance of usable power (relative to its weight, at least).
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      03-08-2013, 02:43 PM   #5
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[quote=R3DL1N3;13605715] The convertible, to me, is a complete waste of what the car represents.(QUOTE]

Yes, because sacrificing the wind in your hair and connection to the elements is worth the .003 seconds gain around The Ring.
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      03-08-2013, 02:50 PM   #6
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The s2000 is more of a raw, track oriented car. I can see the toyobaru destroying miata sales, based on the looks alone.
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      03-08-2013, 02:56 PM   #7
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[quote=GammaZeta;13605933]
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3DL1N3 View Post
The convertible, to me, is a complete waste of what the car represents.(QUOTE]

Yes, because sacrificing the wind in your hair and connection to the elements is worth the .003 seconds gain around The Ring.
Typical forum response. It's funny though how I'm referencing the fact that the coupe was what the chassis was designed for, not the convertible. Nothing wrong with a car that was built to be a convertible (ie: s2000/boxer, etc) and designed as such to provide such an experience. I certainly don't care about the ring time at all, but the fact you are missing significant structure either means you add it somewhere else (weight - which the toyota most certainly cannot afford) or chassis flex. If you want a cruiser with the top down go and buy one, but don't be a fanbois on the forums when someone calls out the fact that toyota has marketed this car for enthusiasts with the driving feel and then decides to lop the roof off. If you havent figured out that this isn't exactly the best recipe to achieve it, don't blame me.
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      03-08-2013, 03:58 PM   #8
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[quote=R3DL1N3;13606004]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaZeta View Post

Typical forum response. It's funny though how I'm referencing the fact that the coupe was what the chassis was designed for, not the convertible. Nothing wrong with a car that was built to be a convertible (ie: s2000/boxer, etc) and designed as such to provide such an experience. I certainly don't care about the ring time at all, but the fact you are missing significant structure either means you add it somewhere else (weight - which the toyota most certainly cannot afford) or chassis flex. If you want a cruiser with the top down go and buy one, but don't be a fanbois on the forums when someone calls out the fact that toyota has marketed this car for enthusiasts with the driving feel and then decides to lop the roof off. If you havent figured out that this isn't exactly the best recipe to achieve it, don't blame me.
Right...so that's why Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, etc., all offer a drop top option on their cars.

In fact, look at the new 458 and MP4 models where there is NO NOTICEABLE TIME OR SPEED REDUCTIONS, OR WEIGHT GAINS on their open top models.

And again, unless you're some super-duper sports car professional driver, a few extra pounds and a little less support in a FT-86 isn't going to matter AT ALL. So going 0-60 in 7.5 seconds instead of 7.4 is really going to matter.
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      03-08-2013, 06:17 PM   #9
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all those cars that you have stated, especially the 458/mclaren were built for those purposes - hence the near nill difference in performance. Now we are comparing an entry level sports coupe to 250+k vehicles... carbon fiber monocoque anyone?
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      03-08-2013, 06:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3DL1N3 View Post
all those cars that you have stated, especially the 458/mclaren were built for those purposes - hence the near nill difference in performance. Now we are comparing an entry level sports coupe to 250+k vehicles... carbon fiber monocoque anyone?
Exactly. You're comparing the differences between a hardtop v. convertible version of a $25,000 car. You are not going to notice the difference either way.
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      03-08-2013, 06:44 PM   #11
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Lets not pretend like this is anything but Toyota targeting the female market. They even "spruced" up the interior a bit for this variation.
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      03-09-2013, 10:28 AM   #12
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Completely pointless comparision. Even if the GT86 doesn't offer anymore than ten years ago, it fisrt of all is cheaper: 10K. And even if price is not an issue, there are no more S2000s, so you have no choice, the GT86 is the only one. Unless you go 4C, Cayman or 1M/M2.
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      03-09-2013, 11:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi
Completely pointless comparision. Even if the GT86 doesn't offer anymore than ten years ago, it fisrt of all is cheaper: 10K. And even if price is not an issue, there are no more S2000s, so you have no choice, the GT86 is the only one. Unless you go 4C, Cayman or 1M/M2.
There are no more brand new S2000's you mean. They're not like the Dodo quite yet unless my eyes are playing tricks on me.
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      03-10-2013, 09:43 PM   #14
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[quote=GammaZeta;13606357]
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3DL1N3 View Post

Right...so that's why Porsche, McLaren, Ferrari, etc., all offer a drop top option on their cars.

In fact, look at the new 458 and MP4 models where there is NO NOTICEABLE TIME OR SPEED REDUCTIONS, OR WEIGHT GAINS on their open top models.

And again, unless you're some super-duper sports car professional driver, a few extra pounds and a little less support in a FT-86 isn't going to matter AT ALL. So going 0-60 in 7.5 seconds instead of 7.4 is really going to matter.
Those cars were designed from the start to be convertibles and have minimized impact through methods not available to a 25K car.

The convertible FT-86 vs. coupe will be more along the lines of the E93 vs. E92 (though worse). Still a good car and good enough for most people to have fun, but noticeably slower and less dynamic. At a price point 1/3 of the M3, they're going to have far less leeway in materials and such to minimize the impact of losing the roof - which is clearly noticeable in the E93.

So for those who want a budget convertible that still handles well - it's going to be a great car. But let's not pretend that it's not going to be noticeably less of a sports car than the coupe.
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      03-10-2013, 09:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawheat View Post
But let's not pretend that it's not going to be noticeably less of a sports car than the coupe.
No, let's all stop pretending to be Michael Schumacher in our car opinions. No one on this board is good enough to be any faster in the coupe than in the convertible.
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      03-10-2013, 09:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaZeta
No, let's all stop pretending to be Michael Schumacher in our car opinions. No one on this board is good enough to be any faster in the coupe than in the convertible.
Have you ever been to a track?
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      03-10-2013, 11:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GammaZeta
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawheat View Post
But let's not pretend that it's not going to be noticeably less of a sports car than the coupe.
No, let's all stop pretending to be Michael Schumacher in our car opinions. No one on this board is good enough to be any faster in the coupe than in the convertible.
Lol and this is exactly why forum kids keep me from posting. Thanks for the laugh though!
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      03-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #18
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The S2000s still go for too much $ IMO. If they were under $15k with low miles, I'd look at them.

I would not buy the FT-86. Period.
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