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      03-07-2013, 02:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
I am not a fan of SC because of this. the s65 is a lightweight engine..to add more rotational mass and heat out weighs the power advatanges.
We're not dealing with a Lotus here, the car is a pig to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by j2m View Post
Also D cups are heavier than A cups
This needs more analysis.
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      03-07-2013, 02:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
This needs more analysis.

Yes. Yes it does.
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      03-07-2013, 02:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j2m View Post

Also D cups are heavier than A cups
I think we need pics of some on a scale to be sure.
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      03-07-2013, 02:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
This needs more analysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell325 View Post
Yes. Yes it does.
Ok... I will take the bull by the horns and do some R&D on this topic
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      03-07-2013, 02:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
It has been awhile from the last time I measured the weight of all the individual components in our kits but I had some time this morning so I did. Our VT1 kit has a total weight of about 55 lbs. VT2 kits have an total weight of about 70 lbs without fluid.

We spent a long time in development and continue to spend time looking for ways to reduce the weight of our kits where we can. We have been able to get the weight of the current VT1 manifold down to 19 lbs and the current VT2 manifold to 24 lbs. Last time I measured the stock manifold and air box that are removed the total weight of the parts was about 10-15 lbs if I remember correctly.
Soooooo what you're saying is that my estimation was off by 45+ pounds... That's good news
Hmmm quite possible I left some parts in, added more parts during my DIY and probably gained a few pounds from all the effin beer I was drinking, I mean fuk I was pretty much shit faced then entire time
Now that I think about it, I have been missing one of my floor jacks, maybe I left it inside the engine bay.... fawwwwwwwK
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      03-07-2013, 02:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j2m View Post
mean fuk I was pretty much shit faced then entire time
Now that I think about it, I have been missing one of my floor jacks, maybe I left it inside the engine bay.... fawwwwwwwK

Yeah, I'm lucky my car runs at all. Beer me!
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      03-07-2013, 06:19 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
We're not dealing with a Lotus here, the car is a pig to begin with.
This may be..but I am still not a fan of SC. It changes the character of the car and not for the better imo.
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      03-07-2013, 08:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC919 View Post
We're not dealing with a Lotus here, the car is a pig to begin with.
This may be..but I am still not a fan of SC. It changes the character of the car and not for the better imo.
Sooooo how long did you have your m3 blown?
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      03-07-2013, 08:38 PM   #31
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Don't upset the balance of the car!!!
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      03-07-2013, 08:59 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
This may be..but I am still not a fan of SC. It changes the character of the car and not for the better imo.
This tells me you never drove a blown M3!
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      03-07-2013, 09:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
This may be..but I am still not a fan of SC. It changes the character of the car and not for the better imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
This tells me you never drove a blown M3!
+1
I'm guessing you haven't driven a VF620 M3...
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      03-07-2013, 09:16 PM   #34
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You SC fanbois crack me up

I did my homework before wasting ten of thousands of dollars and ruining the way the car drives and feels.

Not gonna name drop but there are other members who ran SCs and then removed them because they didn't care for how unbalanced the car felt either.
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      03-07-2013, 09:29 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
You SC fanbois crack me up

I did my homework before wasting ten of thousands of dollars and ruining the way the car drives and feels.

Not gonna name drop but there are other members who ran SCs and then removed them because they didn't care for how unbalanced the car felt either.
so you have drove a blown M3!?
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      03-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311
You SC fanbois crack me up

I did my homework before wasting ten of thousands of dollars and ruining the way the car drives and feels.

Not gonna name drop but there are other members who ran SCs and then removed them because they didn't care for how unbalanced the car felt either.
GTFO and stop wasting our time, and littering this thread with your "theoretical" knowledge...
There's no substitute for "real world knowledge". Not even all of the countless hours of "homework" you do behind your 36" computer screen... Geesh!.!.!.!.!.
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      03-07-2013, 11:57 PM   #37
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Vic your above statement makes no sense. It is reasonable to not want to add nearly 100 pounds over the nose of the car. That is atleast rational.

But to say the "S65 is light and the SC adds rotational mass" makes zero sense. First the only reason rotational mass is bad for example is parasitic losses taking away from the power output of an engine. A supercharger clearly makes up for the added parasitic loss of the added belt. No other rotational mass is added but even if it was if you are adding something that makes more power than the rotational mass takes away power than its meaningless. In this case the Sc makes about 100hp for the 2hp of parasitic loss the SC may add. A net gain of 98.
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      03-08-2013, 02:56 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
I am not a fan of SC because of this. the s65 is a lightweight engine..to add more rotational mass and heat out weighs the power advatanges.
Lightweight compared to the old iron block straight sixes. But not for what it is. It's actually one of the heaviest NA V8's that i'm aware of. It's a few KG's heavier than the AMG M156, the Coyote 5.0, the Audi 4.2, the RUF 4.5 V8. Compare it to the smallblock OHV engines coming out of GM and it gets even uglier. High HP/L ratio doesn't come cheap.

EDIT: M159 weighs less than the S65, not the M156.

Last edited by Soorena; 03-08-2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: Typo
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      03-08-2013, 03:07 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Lightweight compared to the old iron block straight sixes. But not for what it is. It's actually one of the heaviest NA V8's that i'm aware of. It's a few KG's heavier than the AMG M156, the Coyote 5.0, the Audi 4.2, the RUF 4.5 V8. Compare it to the smallblock OHV engines coming out of GM and it gets even uglier. High HP/L ratio doesn't come cheap.
Want to share your numbers and sources? The S65 is not heavy by any means. And it makes sense. Its all aluminum like most, has really light-weight drive train given its high-revs, its only 4L, compact. It is a light engine for a v8 and would love to see your sources to say its heavier than all those listed
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      03-08-2013, 03:18 AM   #40
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I just checked and the audi V8 is 420 pounds, the LS6 small block is 435 and the e90 m3 is 440. M156 AMG v8 is 430 pounds. (took a lot of searching to find this!)

So I would say its on par with any other high performance aluminum v8

It does show you what a friggin boat anchor the S54 straight 6 was! 470 pounds for a straight six is ridiculous given it only has one cylinder head, and obviously less displacement. Iron will certainly add the weight! An aluminum version modernized of the s54 would be really cool

Last edited by M3takesNYC; 03-08-2013 at 03:31 AM.
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      03-08-2013, 03:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Want to share your numbers and sources? The S65 is not heavy by any means. And it makes sense. Its all aluminum like most, has really light-weight drive train given its high-revs, its only 4L, compact. It is a light engine for a v8 and would love to see your sources to say its heavier than all those listed
The S65 weighs 201KG. The M156 weighs 198KG. The 4.2 used in R8(Revised headers for the R8 weighs less than the RS4 engine) weighs 194KG. The Coyote weighs 195KG. All are dry with no clutch. The numbers are all over the place and you can find them on interwebz.

It's only 4L but the whole engine is not compact by any means. It's longer than the Coyote and the 4.2 V8, and is just 15mm shorter than the M159. But the heavy VANOS makes it up. I don't have the height numbers, but i bet the S65 is the tallest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC
I just checked and the audi V8 is 420 pounds, the LS6 small block is 435 and the e90 m3 is 440. Couldn't find the AMG.

So I would say its on par with any other high performance aluminum v8

It does show you what a friggin boat anchor the S54 straight 6 was! 470 pounds for a straight six is ridiculous given it only has one cylinder head, and obviously less displacement. Iron will certainly add the weight! An aluminum version modernized of the s54 would be really cool
The LS6 is the heaviest engine of the 350 family, and the 350 family weighs even more than the 376ci. The LS3 weighs only 415lbs dry.

The S54 was an awesome engine, but yes it was heavy. I had a TVR Speedsix engine (4.5L of I6 awesomeness) and even though it was way bigger than the S54, it still was lighter than the iron block S54. Straight sixes due having one row of cylinders have very long blocks, if you increase the deck height and make the whole engine out of iron, like what BMW did with the S54, you will get a big piece of cast iron weighing a tonne. But iron block has one advantage and that's the strength of the block. That allows you to minimize the bore spacing so you can reduce of bit weight. You can't reduce the S65's cylinder wall thickness to the S54 levels. The S54 with that thin wall can hold 25 psi all day long (sleeved ones passed the 30 psi mark), throw 30 psi into the S65 and watch how it turns into a million pieces.
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      03-08-2013, 12:40 PM   #42
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Essentially all those engines are within 10-20 pounds which seems like a pretty small margin when your at 400 plus pounds. I don't think the s65 was by any means some big feat of weight loss but it also easily fits in with the modern aluminum v8 in terms of weight.

To me the weight is where it should be

Keep in mind its an engine really designed back in 2000 with the S85. The engines in other cars are much newer. So I still think for engine tech that is 12 years old, its still a nice package which is still full of more tech than almost any other modern engine despite its age
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      03-08-2013, 11:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uiop View Post
Noob question but can you hear supercharger whine?
Off topic but I don't think it's worth a new thread.
Nope...no more whine. I wanted the whine, but can't get it
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      03-09-2013, 05:06 PM   #44
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Seriously... Who cares?
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