Weistec S3 C63 Black vs ESS VT2-625 M3

[Roman@ESS]

If the C63 used the same 4.0 motor the M3 does it would need to be built also to make 750+ HP. The two platforms are very different. Much easier to make that level of power with a 6.3. We have two C63 AMG cars one is a black series and they can make very high power with the stock motor. Very impressive cars with boost.

[BlackJetE90]

Originally Posted by Roman@ESS

If the C63 used the same 4.0 motor the M3 does it would need to be built also to make 750+ HP. The two platforms are very different. Much easier to make that level of power with a 6.3. We have two C63 AMG cars one is a black series and they can make very high power with the stock motor. Very impressive cars with boost.

You guys working on a kit for the M156?

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Is the VT3 stock internals?

Nevermind: Looked it up, low compression built motor.

Yes, you can't safely run 11-12psi on a stock motor despite what you may read elsewhere no matter what octane you use, and C16 does nothing power wise, Gintani spent over an hour on a dynoject at specialty Z when I had their kit trying to make more power, almost 20 runs, lol and the car actually made less on C16. I would say if you run more than 8 psi on a stock motor, you are asking for trouble, so this is our only option.

A stock motor Supercharged M3 will not safely make 670whp SAE on a dynojet no matter how much octane or boost you throw at it, maybe a dyna pack it can come close, as I made 650whp with the VT625 on that type of dyno, lol. There is not enough fuel to run 11psi or an E85 mix and the motor would grenade in no time, but cleary there is a HUGE gap performance wise between a VT2 and VT3, just as there is on the Weistec Stage 2 vs. Stage 3.

As far as "built" I guess you could say that the specific Weistec Stage 3 that was in the vid has a built motor too, as it has the SLS internals with forged pistons. The only upgrades I have are simple drop in LC pistons, and rods, which actually lowers power, no boring out of the block or sleeving which costs more and can weaken it, and from what I've read and people I've talked too, those with sleeved motors burn excessive oil vs. keeping the stock block untouched and using the OEM piston manufacture to make the LC pistons. FWIW my car with the drop in pistons has not burned any oil I can't say the same about my friends with sleeved blocks. The major reason to do the the drop in pistons, rods and bearings is so I can run more boost and timing safely, that's the difference, as well as more fuel with the upgraded fuel system, which is essential once you get past 600whp. I wonder how much boost that Stage 3 is running, my buddies Weistec Stage 2 was running 7-8psi I believe. Either way I'm really impressed with those cars, there will be a 1000HP Weistec C63, built motor, at the shift-s3ctor event, he's a good friend, I'll run him, but I doubt I have much of a chance. It would be a fun run if the 800HP Stage 3 was able to go.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Found this video on the Weistec channel. A complete mismatch, but still interesting to see the total annihilation of the F10 M5.

Easy kill, we should have a tuned M5 at the shift-s3ctor event.

[BlackJetE90]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Yes, you can't safely run 11-12psi on a stock motor despite what you may read elsewhere no matter what octane you throw at it, and C16 does nothing power wise, Gintani spent over an hour on a dynoject at specialty Z when I had their kit trying to make more power, almost 20 runs, lol and the car actually made less on C16. I would say if you run more than 8 psi on a stock motor, you are asking for trouble, so this is our only option.

A stock motor Supercharged M3 will not safely make 670whp SAE on a dynojet no matter how much octane or boost you throw at it, maybe a dyna pack it can come close, as I made 650whp with the VT625 on that type of dyno, lol. There is not enough fuel to run 11psi or an E85 mix and the motor would grenade in no time, but cleary there is a HUGE gap performance wise between a VT2 and VT3, just as there is on the Weistec Stage 2 vs. Stage 3.

As far as "built" I guess you could say that the specific Weistec Stage 3 that was in the vid has a built motor too, as it has the SLS internals with forged pistons. The only upgrades I have are LC pistons and rods, no boring out of the block, etc. which actually lowers power, but I can run more boost and timing safely, that's the difference, as well as more fuel with the upgraded fuel system. I wonder how much boost that Stage 3 is running, my buddies Weistec Stage 2 was running 7-8psi I believe. Either way I'm really impressed with those cars, there will be a 1000HP Weistec C63, built motor, at the shift-s3ctor event, he's a good friend, I'll run him, but I doubt I have much of a chance. It would be a fun run if the 800HP Stage 3 was able to go.

Good info. Another video said the C63 Black was running 11psi.

[e92livin]

These comparo runs are sweet it really shows off the difference of the VT3 compared to a VT2 ... sick idea. I do think it would be a amazing race against the Weistec 63 AMG

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Good info. Another video said the C63 Black was running 11psi.

Thanks man, 11psi on a 11.3:1 CR motor with forged pistons is probably okay, but I wouldn't do it on 91, either way that car moves out, thanks for posting the vid.

[Longboarder]

Here's my compilation of runs against three very different AMG's last Saturday:

Run 1 vs stock 2013 C63 with Power pack



Run 2 vs Stage 2 blown C63



Run 3 vs Stage 3 blown C63

[ROB_S2K]

Weistec is impressive for sure. Their kits make some stupid power.

[Longboarder]

I asked Jim (the owner of the C) if he could make Shift Sector. He lives in the mid-west but he said his car will be here for another few weeks.

[kiln]

The bottom line is you do not have to yank the motor out and replace the internals to get this kind of power.. we can always whine about displacement, compression etc... not being even..

How much are you VT3 guys paying for the engine modifications / labor (rods, pistons, etc??) to handle the extra boost?

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by kiln

The bottom line is you do not have to yank the motor out and replace the internals to get this kind of power.. we can always whine about displacement, compression etc... not being even..

How much are you VT3 guys paying for the engine modifications / labor (rods, pistons, etc??) to handle the extra boost?

You are referring to the Weistec setups not having to yank the motor for Stage 3? That appears to be the case, but not for the s65 and for some that's a big issue, fair enough. The STG. 3 Weistec car in the vid has SLS internals, equal to or maybe better than what I have in my VT3, a standard C63 does not. FWIW Weistec recommends Engine Internal and Tranny upgrades with their Stage 3, which is a smart move on their part, but I would doubt a BS or P31 package needs them as they have the SLS internals, food for thought.

http://www.weistec.com/m156scs3.html

The upgraded internals on the S65 are not just to handle the additional boost/timing, but to safely make 640whp on 91 octane pump gas and not worry about blowing up an engine. There's more to it than simply saying you can make this much power on the stock internals, reliability and what fuel you have available is also a big factor too, and those that are DCT need to think about their transmission. I could make more power with my setup, but I'm not sure the DCT could handle the power. You can make good power on the stock S65 as well, but at levels above 8+psi, it will probably not last long on ANY octane or god like tune, especially with hard driving, that's the bottom line as well.

[Uiop]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

Found this video on the Weistec channel. A complete mismatch, but still interesting to see the total annihilation of the F10 M5.

Wow, that was murder

[Chriskm3]

Originally Posted by img

Jeeez,what was that ?

I assume similar to your performance ?

[erm324]

Wow, that C63 moves. It will really shine in the 1/4 mile with all that torque. If you're going to spend 140k on that car, I'd say for ~16k you can't go wrong with that setup at all.

[img]

Originally Posted by Chriskm3

I assume similar to your performance ?

No Bro,Those C63s with built motors are crazy fast. Building a 6.2 motor isnt like building our 4.0 motors but i would love to see it run a 4.6 strocker VT3 motor.It would be an interesting run !
I might be building one of those soon,my car feels slow

[kiln]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

You are referring to the Weistec setups not having to yank the motor for Stage 3? That appears to be the case, but not for the s65 and for some that's a big issue, fair enough. The STG. 3 Weistec car in the vid has SLS internals, equal to or maybe better than what I have in my VT3, a standard C63 does not. FWIW Weistec recommends Engine Internal and Tranny upgrades with their Stage 3, which is a smart move on their part, but I would doubt a BS or P31 package needs them as they have the SLS internals, food for thought.

http://www.weistec.com/m156scs3.html

The upgraded internals on the S65 are not just to handle the additional boost/timing, but to safely make 640whp on 91 octane pump gas and not worry about blowing up an engine. There's more to it than simply saying you can make this much power on the stock internals, reliability and what fuel you have available is also a big factor too, and those that are DCT need to think about their transmission. I could make more power with my setup, but I'm not sure the DCT could handle the power. You can make good power on the stock S65 as well, but at levels above 8+psi, it will probably not last long on ANY octane or god like tune, especially with hard driving, that's the bottom line as well.

Yea I know it uses the SLS internals.. but the nice part about it is that it comes that way from the factory.

regarding your 2nd paragraph.. I mean really? didnt you see my response saying "how long this engine will last is for a different debate" That shit is common sense bro. No need to explain that to me.

The boss 302 seems to be most enticing for me. Forged internals from the factory with 750-900whp potential. If you blow it up, it will not cost you a fortune to rebuild.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by kiln

Yea I know it uses the SLS internals.. but the nice part about it is that it comes that way from the factory.

And I agreed with you, lol, but at a cost over 100K it better come that way from the factory, so does the P31, dont' take this as insulting your intelligence, I'm just throwing it out there for everyone who's interested in the info, again Weistec recommends upgrading the internals with a Stage 3.

Originally Posted by kiln

regarding your 2nd paragraph.. I mean really? didnt you see my response saying "how long this engine will last is for a different debate" That shit is common sense bro. No need to explain that to me.

Lol, no idea what you are talking about where is your response stating that? Again, it's not just about to what you may think or know, just general info on the subject, I threw it out there for everyone.

Originally Posted by kiln

The boss 302 seems to be most enticing for me. Forged internals from the factory with 750-900whp potential. If you blow it up, it will not cost you a fortune to rebuild.

I like that car too, it's a lot easier to mod for big power from the factory, but RWD is always a bitch with big power.

[m33]

I'm personally not to impressed with Wiestec stage 3 , it barley walked a Vt625 .... Heck a vt650 would have made the Benz look less impressive.
Now the Delta between the 625 vs the Vt3 that's impressive , built motor or not that shit put a foot ball field on the vt625 , and if I remember correctly the Vt3 had boost leaks at this particular event.

Hopefully we can see a match up between wiestec and the Vt3 M

[Curt2000]

I was honestly expecting a SC C63 to be > a SC M3...this vid was pleasantly surprising!

[BlackJetE90]

Originally Posted by m33

I'm personally not to impressed with Wiestec stage 3 , it barley walked a Vt625 .... Heck a vt650 would have made the Benz look less impressive.
Now the Delta between the 625 vs the Vt3 that's impressive , built motor or not that shit put a foot ball field on the vt625 , and if I remember correctly the Vt3 had boost leaks at this particular event.

Hopefully we can see a match up between wiestec and the Vt3 M

The owner has a much quicker M156 Weistec tuned car, if your not impressed. According to him, this is his slow car.

[img]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

The owner has a much quicker M156 Weistec tuned car, if your not impressed. According to him, this is his slow car.

Good lord !