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      02-22-2013, 11:20 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrojunky View Post
the '02 C5Z will be equivalent to the 03 and 04 in a straight line. 02+ engines got a little hotter cam than did the 01's and more likely made 425hp as opposed to the claimed 405hp. the only important difference i can think of for the '04 is going to be the better shocks, which is correctable for ~400$.

as a guy whose owned a C5Z and C6Z and has some seat time in a couple e92M's, and presently owns a 335i (wife's) and 330ci DD... my two cents:

C6Z will flat out wipe the floor with an e92M from a performance perspective. any performance perspective. it's just not close at all. in a straight line, i wouldn't be able to tell if the M missed a gear or not. there is a very big difference between a mid 11 second car that traps mid 120's and a mid 12 second car that traps in the mid teens. i disagree with those who say it's very hard to drive at or near its limits; i find it very natural and balanced. power delivery is extremely predictable, the big fat power curve is very nice for non-straight-line work, and it's very neutral at its cornering limits. oversteer and understeer can be dialed in at will and once pushed past its limits, it's very easy to recover. brakes are spectacular. flip side: its limits are very high and it will bite you if you're stupid with the throttle. at any legal speed. also, ditch the runcraps. pilot super sports completely changed the personality of the car. i can actually hook it in first (through its torque peak!) on some pavement, and there's the obvious cornering prowess. with older GY runflats, i was having trouble hooking at under 80 mph on almost any pavement.

C5Z is a great sports car, but the gap will be a lot closer performance wise. regarding the drag race between an M3 and the C5Z, the achilles heel for both the C5 and C6Z's has been traction. without very good tires, decently warm temps, a person who knows the car, and grippy pavement, good luck hooking first or second. sometimes third in the C5Z (geared a lot shorter than the C6Z). this problem was mostly solved for me with pilot super sports. but the C6Z still has problems hooking when temps drop below 65F.

e92M is a phenomenally nice car. i am extremely impressed with its seats, engine sound, and the DCT transmission. i'm actually considering consolidating my 330ci and C6Z into a single e92M and will be shopping them this weekend. not sure if i'm willing to give up the outrageous performance of the C6Z tho. also not sure if i want to take such a big step down in fuel mileage. i see >=26 mpg on road trips and around 19 mpg in mixed.

wish 'vettes had the DCT and some actual seats. seriously, their fat man lazboy cush seats are a long running joke for the 'vette guys. looks like they may have finally addressed this issue with the C7's optional seats, but i'll believe it when i sit in a set. except for the seats, i don't find the C6Z interior to be all that horrible: doors close nicely, everything's laid out well, driving position is great, the shifter placement is especially good, the electric doors are pretty awesome, it has true keyless entry + ignition, and even though it's colored like what i'd expect from a 1980's fighter plane, the HUD is so functional that i rarely look down to my regular gauge cluster. but the e92M interior >> that of the C6Z. and the e92M interior vs the C5Z interior is a more extreme beating than a would be a C6Z vs a corolla around the 'ring.

perhaps if i pick up an e92M, i'll line it up with my old (now my mom's current) bolt ons C5Z and we'll see what's up. i expect the C5Z to have a slight advantage in a straight line and probably also around a road course. but not a huge advantage. if i don't pick up an e92M and decide to stick with my present mix of cars, i will likely be picking up one in a few years to replace the e46. except for the fuel mileage, i'm very impressed with them. but one parting shot: i think you guys should be comparing a C6Z with the e92M. the C5Z is a completely different price point (low 20's or even high teens) than is the e92M whereas the C6Zs are a lot closer. and so it becomes outrageous performance vs very very good performance and 'meh' interior vs. very nice interior.
I tend to the think of the c6 z06 in the GTR, 911 class of performance. The m3 is not really comparable and the z06 base msrp is a good bit higher than the m3.
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      02-22-2013, 11:26 PM   #288
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the z06 base msrp is a good bit higher than the m3.
this is true. i'm thinking in terms of what i can get on the used market today: the years won't be the same, but nice examples of either an e92M or C6Z can be had for mid 40's. i imagine you'd be looking at low mile 2007-08 Z's or 2008-09 M3's for that price. C5Z is a low 20k$ car nowadays. probably more comparable with an early 335i on the price front.
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      02-23-2013, 12:11 AM   #289
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Z06 MSRP is higher but in some cases you can get like $12 to $15k off MSRP
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-d...8-500-off.html

I remember when i was shopping for my Z in early 2012, there were some crazy deals....like $84k MSRP was selling for $68k.
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      02-23-2013, 12:13 AM   #290
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A C6 Z06 might sticker price for a bit higher than a M3, but dealers routinely give a fairly high discount of the price. You can get a new lightly loaded Z06 for around $67K. The Z06 is probably highest bang for the buck out there. It does have some shortcomings and a weird stigma but the car is certainly a blast to drive.
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      02-23-2013, 12:37 AM   #291
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A C6 Z06 might sticker price for a bit higher than a M3, but dealers routinely give a fairly high discount of the price. You can get a new lightly loaded Z06 for around $67K. The Z06 is probably highest bang for the buck out there. It does have some shortcomings and a weird stigma but the car is certainly a blast to drive.
No doubt. I have strongly considered it in the past, but I've never been a big fan of the way the c6 looks. The c7 looks good in black. The corvette stigma is something that I'd still have a little trouble with. That and my wife would be mortified.
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      02-23-2013, 12:42 AM   #292
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I get your point but I do think age of the design does matter if for no reason other than context. Family sedans of today are as fast as sports cars of years past. A Lambo Countach is slow by comparison to MANY modern performance cars (not even true sports cars). I agree that the M3's ability is amazing for what it is but you can't simply discount the age of the cars. Also, the tires on the C5 would be nowhere near as good as what is available today and that does absolutely contribute to measured performance.
Sure, age has a factor but not to the extent your making it out to be between the c5z and e92 m3. A Lamborghini countach is a 30+ year old car super car, a "vintage" e46 m3 is about 10 years old and you can contribute most of the performance gains between the e92 and e46 to more power. I don't think anyone can discount what the m3 can do against a dedicated track car with similar horsepower and far less weight.
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      02-23-2013, 10:51 PM   #293
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Z06 is a beast, plain and simple. the m is no slouch however. from my experience the M is a much much more forgiving car and is far easier to enjoy at the track and put ones trust in. heres a vid of me chasing my buddy in my M (hes got a heavily modded 06 or 08 Z, corvette guys if you could chime in because it was the last year GM offered the sunset looking metallic orange color i think). hope you guys like the sound track lol
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      02-23-2013, 11:27 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by THE-FN-MAN View Post
Z06 is a beast, plain and simple. the m is no slouch however. from my experience the M is a much much more forgiving car and is far easier to enjoy at the track and put ones trust in. heres a vid of me chasing my buddy in my M (hes got a heavily modded 06 or 08 Z, corvette guys if you could chime in because it was the last year GM offered the sunset looking metallic orange color i think). hope you guys like the sound track lol
Cool video...

Your buddy in the Z06 gets off the gas REALLY early for corners? I find that surprising as my experience with the Z06 is that the braking capability is phenomenal and most guys who track them often can brake VERY late and hard into corners. I actually found the hardest part in keeping up with a Z06 on the track in my M3 was they were able to brake much later and be on the gas longer in straights (not to mention the power and cornering ability ). A Z06 in the hands of a skilled driver is a track car that is matched by only a few cars.
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      02-23-2013, 11:36 PM   #295
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haha, thanks man. yeah , both him and me are over matched by our cars. i wish i could say that we were better drivers but that'd be a down right lie. hes running the ZR1 tires i guess which is really only a 335 in the rear instead of 325 i think but the stock brakes. i think like me, since this was only my 3rd, his 4th track day we still have a long way to go in learning what are cars are truly capable of and we both are kind of tentative of beating on them to hard becasue we just dont want to break anything. obviously the more seat time we have the better we will get and we'll begin to learn that fine line between really "driving" the car like it was meant to be and pushing it to hard where we warp the brakes or fry the tires after one event. The white M at the end was 100% stock except for a set of RS3's and he owned us for the most part lol.
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      02-24-2013, 11:21 AM   #296
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sountrack is funny. my guess is the z06 was just tooling around to get video of his buddy and trying not to run away from him hence the overslowing all over the place.
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      02-24-2013, 11:48 AM   #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD
sountrack is funny. my guess is the z06 was just tooling around to get video of his buddy and trying not to run away from him hence the overslowing all over the place.
no actually I (M3) was pushing him around the track. Again neither of us are pro drivers but like he said, the M is much more confident and predictable in the hands of a novice. At the end of the day out lap times were very similar but I did edge him out
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      02-24-2013, 12:01 PM   #298
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Quote:
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no actually I (M3) was pushing him around the track. Again neither of us are pro drivers but like he said, the M is much more confident and predictable in the hands of a novice. At the end of the day out lap times were very similar but I did edge him out
very true. i have seen only a handful of vettes that i couldnt outdrive. driver mod is best.
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      02-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #299
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Jesus, Ieave for my thread for a few days and all hell breaks loose. Ive thought about it and I am giving up on the GT500. Almost $70k for a car I'm uncertain I would love is just crazy. So I'm back looking for the right Z06.
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      02-24-2013, 04:15 PM   #300
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Quote:
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no actually I (M3) was pushing him around the track. Again neither of us are pro drivers but like he said, the M is much more confident and predictable in the hands of a novice. At the end of the day out lap times were very similar but I did edge him out
very true. i have seen only a handful of vettes that i couldnt outdrive. driver mod is best.
Tighten the nut behind the wheel is always the first mod
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      02-24-2013, 05:52 PM   #301
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Tighten the nut behind the wheel is always the first mod
in the process my friend.
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      02-24-2013, 09:03 PM   #302
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My problem is there's still always gonna be some screws loose...
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      02-24-2013, 10:35 PM   #303
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Don't waste your money on a ZO6??? I dont understand that comment at all. Sure go ahead and spend 120k on a ZR1 or 90k on used one. You can buy a Z06 for 45k-50k used and put 10k into it and it will rape a ZR1 all day long!
+1

Z06's are complete beasts stock and modded. The ZR1 is faster, but not fast enough to justify the price jump between it and the Z06.
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      02-25-2013, 02:08 AM   #304
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My problem is there's still always gonna be some screws loose...
thats okay it takes a little bit of crazy as well to be a proper driver.
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      02-28-2013, 10:42 AM   #305
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I think I have found the car I want. 2011 with 6100 miles. Talking to my bank right now. If I can get it for what I want and the right rate, Im going for it.
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      02-28-2013, 10:58 AM   #306
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I think I have found the car I want. 2011 with 6100 miles. Talking to my bank right now. If I can get it for what I want and the right rate, Im going for it.
GL!
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      02-28-2013, 11:12 AM   #307
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Thanks. If this doesnt work out, Im done for awhile.
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      02-28-2013, 11:36 AM   #308
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yeah right keep after it! z06 will be fun and rewarding at the track.
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