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      08-18-2007, 08:57 AM   #45
poiney
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I am quite informed on it actually. I review the scientific data. I understand the Earth cycles between cooling and warming periods. It's been warmer than now before, and it's been cooler than now before. My point is you try to believe the environment is at the status quo because it now supports Human life, when the geological evidence proves that the climate will change and is constantly changing regardless of what or who lives on Earth. There is geological proof that in the past 100,000 years there has been over 15 times the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere then there is today. There is geological proof that the sun temperature cycles affect the climate. Read other things than just one side of the issue. Stop believing "projections" and look at scientific evidence. The greenhouse effect is actually what keeps the climate habitable for life. You look at one micro-second of geological time and call it bad climate change. Be realistic.

If you think we'll be dead in 50 years, than please stop driving your car. What can you possibly do that is so more important than the survival of the planet?
This is the conventional plot of CO2 over last several 100k years taken from glaciers that contradicts your assertion. What data are you referring to that shows 15x CO2 today? I've read many sources indicating cyclical but steady behavior until recently (scary). Show me your data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...e_400kyr-2.png
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      08-18-2007, 05:38 PM   #46
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u wanna make sense on the wallet?? take a bus or buy yourself a bicycle
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      08-19-2007, 04:16 PM   #47
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I don't understand why so many of you think that all people who buy a hybrid car are waisting their money????

Most people who buy Prius's buy them because they omit very little CO2 into the atmosphere (Less than any Civic, Yaris, or Scion). On top of that they're fashionable, futuristic, High tech and get great mileage.

I wish there was a clean burning diesel BMW that was sold in the states because I would get one in a heartbeat.

Since, we don't have any clean diesel cars for sale in the U.S. YET, the only other "green" car I would get is a Prius. I have nothing against the Yaris or the Civic, but in my opinion the Prius is much cooler and nicer looking. In my opinion,even though the Prius is more expensive then the Civic, Yaris, or echo, the Prius is cooler. I think the Civic and Yaris look cheap and are made for younger people and teenagers.

If you want a classy, fashionable, economical, environmentally friendly car in the U.S that won't cost you an arm and a leg, get the Prius.

If money is an issue, then get a Yaris, Echo, Civic, etc... Those cars are cheap and get relatively good mileage.

Again, not everybody gets a hybrid because they want to save all their money. They get them because they want to give less of their money to the oil companies and release less CO2 into the atmosphere... even if it costs them a premium for the hybrid technology.

I can't wait for the 335d to arrive in N. America! There aren't enough "Green" cars to choose from in the states....
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      08-19-2007, 07:03 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbev View Post
I don't understand why so many of you think that all people who buy a hybrid car are waisting their money????

Most people who buy Prius's buy them because they omit very little CO2 into the atmosphere (Less than any Civic, Yaris, or Scion). On top of that they're fashionable, futuristic, High tech and get great mileage.

If you want a classy, fashionable, economical, environmentally friendly car in the U.S that won't cost you an arm and a leg, get the Prius.
Again, not everybody gets a hybrid because they want to save all their money. They get them because they want to give less of their money to the oil companies and release less CO2 into the atmosphere... even if it costs them a premium for the hybrid technology.
But the fact you are missing is the Prius, and other hybrids are NOT "Green" vehicles!! They do one thing a little bit better than other cars, and that is fuel economy. That is it. That doesn't garner them the title of being "Green." I think of "Green" as something that has minimal negative impact on the environment in all aspects, not just a singular issue. Better yet, something "Green" should have a net positive effect on the environment, something that a car of any type can't possibly achieve.

So please stop calling the Prius and other hybrids "Green" vehicles! They get higher fuel economy ratings than conventional ICE cars, but not significantly so to think they actually have a net positive impact on the environment. It is still produced in a factory that has emisions, still contains heavy metals that need proper recylcing, etc. Like the CNW Research findings, there are many different ways to quantify "Green", but achieving high fuel economy alone isn't enough.
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      08-19-2007, 11:53 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scollins View Post
But the fact you are missing is the Prius, and other hybrids are NOT "Green" vehicles!! They do one thing a little bit better than other cars, and that is fuel economy. That is it. That doesn't garner them the title of being "Green." I think of "Green" as something that has minimal negative impact on the environment in all aspects, not just a singular issue. Better yet, something "Green" should have a net positive effect on the environment, something that a car of any type can't possibly achieve.

So please stop calling the Prius and other hybrids "Green" vehicles! They get higher fuel economy ratings than conventional ICE cars, but not significantly so to think they actually have a net positive impact on the environment. It is still produced in a factory that has emisions, still contains heavy metals that need proper recylcing, etc. Like the CNW Research findings, there are many different ways to quantify "Green", but achieving high fuel economy alone isn't enough.
Isn't every car made in a polluting factory?

No car in the world is 100% non Polluting (Green)...

Yes, Toyota has to build these batteries and electric engines, but it's not like the Prius uses that much more raw materials than any other non hybrid car?

Listen, the technology is new and hopefully the factories will find ways to cut their pollution. It's just going to get better with time. Supposedly the next Prius will be getting 80 mpg. Check out the link: http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...s/4212545.html
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      08-20-2007, 12:23 AM   #50
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The only reason why I would buy a hybrid car (at this point...given the technology) is if I could take advantage of either A) carpool benefits or B) parking benefits extended to hybrid drivers in some cities. Where I live, there is no benefits extended to hybrid drivers except some parking garages offer you special rates.

The gas mileage just doesn't do it for me...like others have said...I'd probably buy a used Civic or a new Yaris. If you really want to save money, buy a used 2 or 3 year old Civic or Corolla.
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      08-20-2007, 02:09 AM   #51
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Go with Prius. It's a nicely made car with nicely equiped interior (My brother-in-law's Prius has leather seats and rear view parking camera), has nice mileage and doesn't look bad. It's A LOT cheaper on a monthly basis than my bimmer, I have to tell you. My brother-in-law likes spirited driving, so his mileage only equals 40mpg, but it'll be a lot more if you drive slowly. You have to pour in 87 gas instead of 91, which saves quite a bit of cash. The engine feels like a lot more than 66 horsepowers, it's no bimmer, but still alright. And this car has a lot of space inside, after Prius my e90 feels very cramped inside.

Prius is a very nice car, whatever people who never even drove it will tell you. Remember, the gas prices are only gonna go up, the fuel is not renewable.
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      08-20-2007, 09:23 AM   #52
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so nobody cares that it's a god awful thing to have to drive?
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      08-20-2007, 09:35 AM   #53
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I guess Toyota has no reason to change given how successful sales are.

Fortunately, as time goes on, this technology will find its way to performance cars too so that one can also retain a fun drive.
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      08-20-2007, 10:40 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koreez88 View Post
Go with Prius. It's a nicely made car with nicely equiped interior (My brother-in-law's Prius has leather seats and rear view parking camera), has nice mileage and doesn't look bad. It's A LOT cheaper on a monthly basis than my bimmer, I have to tell you. My brother-in-law likes spirited driving, so his mileage only equals 40mpg, but it'll be a lot more if you drive slowly. You have to pour in 87 gas instead of 91, which saves quite a bit of cash. The engine feels like a lot more than 66 horsepowers, it's no bimmer, but still alright. And this car has a lot of space inside, after Prius my e90 feels very cramped inside.

Prius is a very nice car, whatever people who never even drove it will tell you. Remember, the gas prices are only gonna go up, the fuel is not renewable.
Yeah, it's not a sports car, but it drives great. It's quiet and has more than enough power to get you places and keep up with traffic. Don't get me wrong, I love BMW's but if you're looking for a classy, not too expensive car, that gets great gas mileage then get a Prius.

I ain't no street racer, so driving a Prius would suit me just fine. Another thing I noticed about the Prius is it's an extremely easy car to drive. For some reason, it doesn't require a lot of effort to drive.... I can't really explain it.... I think it has something to do with the tight steering ratio and the very open cabin and great road visibility... It actually drive like a toy...
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      08-20-2007, 11:01 PM   #55
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Quote:
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so nobody cares that it's a god awful thing to have to drive?
no ward....its too awful even to look at let alone drive it
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      08-29-2007, 11:41 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poiney View Post
This is the conventional plot of CO2 over last several 100k years taken from glaciers that contradicts your assertion. What data are you referring to that shows 15x CO2 today? I've read many sources indicating cyclical but steady behavior until recently (scary). Show me your data.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:C...e_400kyr-2.png
Source of my data is a book by Patrick J. Michaels entitled Meltdown, the predictable.... Michaels is a PhD in climatology at UVA. A good book to read on the subject.
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      09-01-2007, 01:36 PM   #57
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Sorry man, but the Toyota Prius is BS. It doesn't use as little fuel as they say it does, and the car's manufacturing is really bad for the environment. If you want a car which is inexpensive to operate, you should look for a civic / golf.

watch this video
Jeremy Clarkson on the Prius
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