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      02-20-2013, 05:34 PM   #133
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Quick rant, how soft are interns now? Soft I tell you... with their 16 hours limits and 10 hours off between shifts.
It's not the interns' fault, my friend. I adjusted okay after a "soft" general surgery intern year, moving into normal call and normal hours with urology. Gotta adapt.
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      02-20-2013, 05:57 PM   #134
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I was very lucky, my parents where able to pay for medical education. So I got out debt free, put me well ahead of the curve. I thank them for it every chance I get.

To the OP, stay focused!!! You need to get in, stay in, and excel while you are in med school to get a good residency that you want. Don't worry about anything else!!!

I personally realized right after residency(IM) that I can make more $$$ and have a better lifestyle if I got involved in the business side of medicine instead of just seeing patience.

Medicine is a great career. We docs love to bitch and complain about it...just ignore it.

Good luck!!!
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      02-20-2013, 06:31 PM   #135
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Quick rant, how soft are interns now? Soft I tell you... with their 16 hours limits and 10 hours off between shifts.
LOL When I was working those 140 hr weeks I could hardly think!

Wow, 16 hr limits with 10 hrs off between? That's actually easier than I thought they made it. My 2nd year was every 4th night on call and that was pretty easy to do- 32 hrs on every 4th.

The advantage of the county hospital training was that it was very resident run, so if you were hammered the night before, your chief would let you go to the call room for a couple of hours.

I'm with Stalker, you gotta stay focused and get the residency you want. Truthfully, I don't think that I would have liked or been good at any other specialty than mine.

Also like Stalker said, take what people say with a grain of salt. I remember when I was finishing medical school, my attending was retiring and saying how much medicine was changing and how he just got out in time. Thirteen years in private practice and I'm still amazed at how well I'm doing and how good my hours are. Just gotta find the practice model that works for you- managed care, academics, private practice. Despite what some of the docs are saying here, the private practice model is far from dead. If Permanente was such a great model, they would be the dominent model in any location they were at. Group Health has been here a long time in Seattle and although they are doing fine, it's not the dominent model.

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      02-20-2013, 06:43 PM   #136
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      02-20-2013, 08:59 PM   #137
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If Permanente was such a great model, they would be the dominent model in any location they were at.
We are...and no model is set up better to survive the changes ahead...disagree if you want but don't give our new grads and residents false hope for the model you currently work in...they have long careers ahead of them and must choose wisely...
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      02-20-2013, 09:07 PM   #138
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LOL

As I said previously, all models have their merits. Also as I have said, you are not the dominent model in the Northwest. http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n....html?page=all

False hope? Hardly. Like I said, I've been hearing about the collapse of the medical system since medical school.

Maybe you should tone down your gloom and doom picture. Just because you like Kaiser doesn't mean that everyone would. At this stage in my career, I would just quit if I had to do a Kaiser like job.
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      02-20-2013, 09:17 PM   #139
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Med school? Pharmacy school is where its at

you dont need a nice car while in professional school. You wont have enough time to enjoy it. Sell it and save your money for tuition and expenses. You can always play the market while in class and make a great $
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      02-20-2013, 09:27 PM   #140
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KP is not only but one of just a FEW systems ( think Cleveland clinic, Mayo, etc. ) that are well positioned to survive what's coming.

It's true that KP is not a dominant player in the NE just yet but they will be with time. Mid-Atlantic KP underwent a recent restructure and leadership change and have been doing great / gaining market share in the last few years.

Mark my words, no matter if you like it or agree with it, for specialities that can't do cash only, KP and KP-like organization will become increasingly more competitive and best overall option to practice.
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      02-21-2013, 04:47 AM   #141
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LarThal, I have seen your posts on the boards for a few years now, had no idea you were an anesthesiologist. I agree with you one hundred percent about what we do...



So phecht, add on my two cents. If you want to be a doctor, become one. I don't care what the rest of these guys/gals are saying, if that is your dream then do it. It is a great job when you compare it to what 95% of people do


Quick rant, how soft are interns now? Soft I tell you... with their 16 hours limits and 10 hours off between shifts.
The work hour restrictions have, overall, made things worse, in my opinion. Without post-call, you're now on 6 days a week, with alternating long and short call, meaning you never actually get large chunks of time off. Also, all that additional work is crammed into fewer hours per day, meaning that teaching and other activities are completely curtailed.

That being said, I hate overnight call. My surgery rotation was q4; I never felt rested even after a post-call day, and always felt like crap by hour 25-26 (I don't drink caffeine). So in some ways, I'm glad that I won't have to go through what you folks did.

I've thought about going the hospitalist route - it's an appealing lifestyle, for sure. But my love for cardiology is just too strong . Cheers
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      02-21-2013, 05:13 AM   #142
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LarThal, I have seen your posts on the boards for a few years now, had no idea you were an anesthesiologist. I agree with you one hundred percent about what we do...
I am amazed, myself, at how many docs have "come out the woodwork" here.

The bottom line is that you need to find an occupation that you think you will love and are passionate about. If you are motivated, bright, and doing something you love, you will be successful and happy.

If one's primary goal is to make money, then take the amount of time that one puts into a medical education and study economics, finance and the markets. You will make more money than in medicine, provided that the energy invested is comparable. Still, there is no doubt that medicine will always afford one an affluent lifestyle. Even some of the lowest paid specialties will put you into the 90-95th percentile of household incomes. We lose perspective sometimes in our sheltered M3 world, of just where society is really at.

On a forum such as this, we tend to focus on the ecomonics of one's profession because we are ultimately discussing the acquisition of a fairly expensive material object. However, if you are truly miserable in your job, an M3 won't help for long. It will give a boost to your spirts for a short while, then you will be miserable again.

I finished fellowship in 1998. 15 years later, there is still nothing else I would rather be doing. I thoroughly enjoy my job, and I am a practicing clinician. No, I don't like going to the OR at 3am with an ischemic bowel case, but when I walk into the cool morning air 4 hours later, it is still a supremely satisfying feeling.
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      02-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #143
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The work hour restrictions have, overall, made things worse, in my opinion. Without post-call, you're now on 6 days a week, with alternating long and short call, meaning you never actually get large chunks of time off. Also, all that additional work is crammed into fewer hours per day, meaning that teaching and other activities are completely curtailed.

That being said, I hate overnight call. My surgery rotation was q4; I never felt rested even after a post-call day, and always felt like crap by hour 25-26 (I don't drink caffeine). So in some ways, I'm glad that I won't have to go through what you folks did.
I heavily agree with this. The duty hours restrictions made things miserable my intern year. At my institution, the year prior, the general surgery interns took home call, so yeah, you might be up all night, but you might not. My year (last year), we had to do q2 or q3 night "shifts" (16 hour shifts), with post-call days and "pre call" days. This was cake, but there was no continuity with the patients. Then, some rotations had full week-long night shifts, 17-18 hours at a time (the rules didn't really matter), and this was simply miserable.

I am a light sleeper, so there was nothing more miserable than being forced to stay in a stupid hospital all night long, and for most of the next morning, for up to 16 or 17 days out of the month.

Life is much better now with urology home call. Most nights are decent, and even though weekend call can be awful (you're on from Friday at 5 til Monday at 7am), it's usually not too terrible.

And most days are 11-12 hours when on the main surgical service, unless big cases keep going. I see no reason to be stuck in the hospital all the time. This seemed to be more a mindset last year being around the general surgery residents....but I feel if you're efficient you can get the work done and still get out and have a bit of a life. At least, we work it that way in urology..everybody works (even the chiefs), and most everyone gets done at a decent time of day.
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      02-21-2013, 05:33 PM   #144
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I am amazed, myself, at how many docs have "come out the woodwork" here.

The bottom line is that you need to find an occupation that you think you will love and are passionate about. If you are motivated, bright, and doing something you love, you will be successful and happy.

If one's primary goal is to make money, then take the amount of time that one puts into a medical education and study economics, finance and the markets. You will make more money than in medicine, provided that the energy invested is comparable. Still, there is no doubt that medicine will always afford one an affluent lifestyle. Even some of the lowest paid specialties will put you into the 90-95th percentile of household incomes. We lose perspective sometimes in our sheltered M3 world, of just where society is really at.

On a forum such as this, we tend to focus on the ecomonics of one's profession because we are ultimately discussing the acquisition of a fairly expensive material object. However, if you are truly miserable in your job, an M3 won't help for long. It will give a boost to your spirts for a short while, then you will be miserable again.

I finished fellowship in 1998. 15 years later, there is still nothing else I would rather be doing. I thoroughly enjoy my job, and I am a practicing clinician. No, I don't like going to the OR at 3am with an ischemic bowel case, but when I walk into the cool morning air 4 hours later, it is still a supremely satisfying feeling.
Agreed, I love leaving the hospital early in the morning as the sun is coming up and the air is crisp, in fact it gives me false sense of accomplishment and pride, LOL.

Then I roll down my windows and enjoy the drive home, unless is winter.
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      02-21-2013, 06:01 PM   #145
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Call

As a med stud (as we called ourselves with no trace of irony) in 1982 I saw first hand that the surgical chief residents LIVED on call for 90 days straight on trauma( Downstate in Brooklyn). Special coverage was arranged every two weeks so they could go and deposit their pay check. I estimate they averaged two hours of sleep per 24 hrs and sometimes none for days- patients were waiting in regular beds for up to 10 days with open abdominal wounds because the emergency cases were so backed up. Not stories- saw all this- I was on every third night and in my 12 week rotation I saw NOBODY get off an OR table alive.Blood bank was in a building four blocks from ER/OR's -came during their meal break with a 16 yo dying in ER for type O - and they would not open the door for 15 minutes while they ate and watched TV.

BTW I went into Psych!
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      02-21-2013, 06:11 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
I am amazed, myself, at how many docs have "come out the woodwork" here.

The bottom line is that you need to find an occupation that you think you will love and are passionate about. If you are motivated, bright, and doing something you love, you will be successful and happy.

If one's primary goal is to make money, then take the amount of time that one puts into a medical education and study economics, finance and the markets. You will make more money than in medicine, provided that the energy invested is comparable. Still, there is no doubt that medicine will always afford one an affluent lifestyle. Even some of the lowest paid specialties will put you into the 90-95th percentile of household incomes. We lose perspective sometimes in our sheltered M3 world, of just where society is really at.

On a forum such as this, we tend to focus on the ecomonics of one's profession because we are ultimately discussing the acquisition of a fairly expensive material object. However, if you are truly miserable in your job, an M3 won't help for long. It will give a boost to your spirts for a short while, then you will be miserable again.

I finished fellowship in 1998. 15 years later, there is still nothing else I would rather be doing. I thoroughly enjoy my job, and I am a practicing clinician. No, I don't like going to the OR at 3am with an ischemic bowel case, but when I walk into the cool morning air 4 hours later, it is still a supremely satisfying feeling.
I would love to know how many anesthesiologists are on here (along with other specialties such as Rads, Optho, etc? Seems the R.O.A.D. to happiness leads to M3s!
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      02-21-2013, 06:22 PM   #147
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I would love to know how many anesthesiologists are on here (along with other specialties such as Rads, Optho, etc? Seems the R.O.A.D. to happiness leads to M3s!
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      02-21-2013, 06:46 PM   #148
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Agreed, I love leaving the hospital early in the morning as the sun is coming up and the air is crisp, in fact it gives me false sense of accomplishment and pride, LOL.

Then I roll down my windows and enjoy the drive home, unless is winter.
Why a false sense? If you have been up at night doing good, you deserve to have a sense of accomplishment and pride !!
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      02-21-2013, 07:29 PM   #149
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I would love to know how many anesthesiologists are on here (along with other specialties such as Rads, Optho, etc? Seems the R.O.A.D. to happiness leads to M3s!

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      02-21-2013, 09:29 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
I am amazed, myself, at how many docs have "come out the woodwork" here.

The bottom line is that you need to find an occupation that you think you will love and are passionate about. If you are motivated, bright, and doing something you love, you will be successful and happy.

If one's primary goal is to make money, then take the amount of time that one puts into a medical education and study economics, finance and the markets. You will make more money than in medicine, provided that the energy invested is comparable. Still, there is no doubt that medicine will always afford one an affluent lifestyle. Even some of the lowest paid specialties will put you into the 90-95th percentile of household incomes. We lose perspective sometimes in our sheltered M3 world, of just where society is really at.

On a forum such as this, we tend to focus on the ecomonics of one's profession because we are ultimately discussing the acquisition of a fairly expensive material object. However, if you are truly miserable in your job, an M3 won't help for long. It will give a boost to your spirts for a short while, then you will be miserable again.

I finished fellowship in 1998. 15 years later, there is still nothing else I would rather be doing. I thoroughly enjoy my job, and I am a practicing clinician. No, I don't like going to the OR at 3am with an ischemic bowel case, but when I walk into the cool morning air 4 hours later, it is still a supremely satisfying feeling.
I would love to know how many anesthesiologists are on here (along with other specialties such as Rads, Optho, etc? Seems the R.O.A.D. to happiness leads to M3s!
Ophthalmology
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      02-21-2013, 10:41 PM   #151
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I would love to know how many anesthesiologists are on here (along with other specialties such as Rads, Optho, etc? Seems the R.O.A.D. to happiness leads to M3s!
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      02-21-2013, 11:41 PM   #152
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I've thought about going the hospitalist route - it's an appealing lifestyle, for sure. But my love for cardiology is just too strong . Cheers
It is funny you mention that, I had everything in a row and I was all set to apply to cards. I just couldn't pull the trigger on another 3 years of training. I do love cardiology though... everything makes sense. I am glad I didn't do it knowing what I know now. But if I definitely could've been happy as a cardiologist. Suddenly your bimmerpost handle makes a ton of sense.

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As a med stud (as we called ourselves with no trace of irony) in 1982 I saw first hand that the surgical chief residents LIVED on call for 90 days straight on trauma( Downstate in Brooklyn)...

BTW I went into Psych!
jeff4598, I believe the timing is right that were doing your training with some of the current big wigs of trauma surgery. I know a number of older surgeons who started of at Downstate and ended up at Shock Trauma and the Hopper in Baltimore. And it seems you made the same realization that Samuel Shem of the House of God came to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nmehta211 View Post
I would love to know how many anesthesiologists are on here (along with other specialties such as Rads, Optho, etc? Seems the R.O.A.D. to happiness leads to M3s!
From what I have gather from my colleagues, having a family (or sometimes just a wife) changes everything, regardless of specialty. I know radiologists who are locked down... the best quote "Don't get married man... it's all emotional blackmail."



Bet the poor OP didn't know what he was starting with this thread.
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      02-22-2013, 08:23 AM   #153
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I wouldn't take what anyone says on a forum too seriously. In the end do what you yourself think is best as none of us know your exact situation.
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      02-22-2013, 11:41 AM   #154
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How did I miss this epic thread?!?!

Back to OP, I drove a VW Golf through med school and loved every minute of it.

And, EMT will NOT prepare you for med school. The only thing that will prepare you is solid study habits and a will to never give up.
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