BMW M CEO discusses Manaul Transmission, AWD, and Turbocharging in Future

[Jason]

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=805747

[davesaddiction]

"But as long as there is demand, we'll offer the manual."

Ominous-sounding... The reviews of the M5 manual have been pretty crappy - good way to reduce demand. Also, dual-clutch gearboxes seem to hide some of the downsides of forced induction. Comes down to the point that those of us that love driving manuals need to keep buying them.

[thegeneral101]

I could definitely see the MT disappearing...but not until next generation. Nitschke basically gives himself an out with the "demand" comment. Who knows how they quantify "demand".

[davesaddiction]

Anyone have sales numbers for the E9x M3 showing what % were sold with the manual? Would be interesting to see the difference in Europe vs. North America as well.

[M3 Esq.]

At least they are planning on sticking with RWD, at least in the short term.

[THE TECH]

I think they are just pandering to the public in regards to the manual. With most automakers shifting (no pun intended) to the automatic/dct type transmissions, my guess is that the manual will become a thing of the past.

My guess is that dct to manual sales are probably in the 4:1 area or more.

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I think they are just pandering to the public in regards to the manual. With most automakers shifting (no pun intended) to the automatic/dct type transmissions, my guess is that the manual will become a thing of the past.

My guess is that dct to manual sales are probably in the 4:1 area or more.

really? when shopping around in the tri-state 80% of the M3's were manual. I had to look very hard to find a DCT. I really hope the manual lives on forever.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

really? when shopping around in the tri-state 80% of the M3's were manual. I had to look very hard to find a DCT. I really hope the manual lives on forever.

Are you talking new or used?

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Are you talking new or used?

both. what was on the showroom floor as new and what came back from lease.
this was in 2010 though.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

both. what was on the showroom floor as new and what came back from lease.
this was in 2010 though.

Well cars sitting on the showroom floor unsold would mean that their counterparts were the desired models likely.

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Well cars sitting on the showroom floor unsold would mean that their counterparts were the desired models likely.

well that may be but they weren't sitting on the showroom floor for long. but take a look on the forums here at club M-DCT and 6MT. The 6MT has almost double the amount of members.

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

well that may be but they weren't sitting on the showroom floor for long. but take a look on the forums here at club M-DCT and 6MT. The 6MT has almost double the amount of members.

Looking at a forum will NEVER give you any sort of true measure as to the market of a vehicle.

[davesaddiction]

I'm guessing the take-rate for the DCT has gotten higher each successive year, as it's proven to be a good option, faster, etc. I'm sure sales of the early years were affected by bad memories (and reviews) of the SMG.

Think it will be a no-cost option on the new M3/4? The manual is a no-cost option on the M5. Pretty much a given that will be the final time it's offered in that car...

[davesaddiction]

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

The 6MT has almost double the amount of members.

Manual owners are more likely enthusiasts, and more likely to frequent establishments such as this.

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Looking at a forum will NEVER give you any sort of true measure as to the market of a vehicle.

this much i know but still has some credit to it. out of every M owner i've met only 2 have DCT.

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

Manual owners are more likely enthusiasts, and more likely to frequent establishments such as this.

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

I'm guessing the take-rate for the DCT has gotten higher each successive year, as it's proven to be a good option, faster, etc. I'm sure sales of the early years were affected by bad memories (and reviews) of the SMG.

Think it will be a no-cost option on the new M3/4? The manual is a no-cost option on the M5. Pretty much a given that will be the final time it's offered in that car...

the SMG in the e60 M5 was also a no option. I guess with the M3 it "cost" more so they charge you.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

I'm guessing the take-rate for the DCT has gotten higher each successive year, as it's proven to be a good option, faster, etc. I'm sure sales of the early years were affected by bad memories (and reviews) of the SMG.

Think it will be a no-cost option on the new M3/4? The manual is a no-cost option on the M5. Pretty much a given that will be the final time it's offered in that car...

that's one way to drive down "demand" for manuals, offer DCT and manual at the same price, effectively having manual drivers subsidize DCT development and production retooling cost.

Of course, if DCT consists of most of the orders, then it's the manuals cars that is a cost the BMW to retool and continue refinement and development. There's some type of business analytical numbers behind this. 6MT development costs has likely already been offset by now.

[mdosu]

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

the SMG in the e60 M5 was also a no option. I guess with the M3 it "cost" more so they charge you.

likely two reasons for extra cost of DCT in our E9X M3s:

1. BMW sales projections thinks manuals would consist of a "significant" portion of sales for our M3s.

2. Initial DCT development just finished, and the E9X M3 was the first car outfitted with this. BMW had to recoup development cost, so those who really wanted a DCT, would have to pay up for it.


I think these are the same two reasons E60 M5 and the new F10 M5 offer manuals as a no-cost option...simply more SMG/DCT sales, and/or the SMG/DCT development costs has been recouped, or offset in the following generation models. The DCT at this point is in a maintenace/update development lifecycle, so this costs of this activity is significantly lower than it was in 2007-2013.

If you're cynical, from production cost perspective, it's easier to offer a cookie-cutter option than to continue minor developments and updates on a 6MT, and it's BMW's bean counters attempting to squeeze out the manual in future cars.

just my thoughts, I think it's 100% a business development cost vs lost sales trade-off decision. Likely BMW wouldn't loose any more sales from a DCT-only range, and that figure might even be compounded if you do offer a low volume manual and there's a cost of retooling the factory.

[robotk]

Originally Posted by davesaddiction

"But as long as there is demand, we'll offer the manual."

Ominous-sounding... The reviews of the M5 manual have been pretty crappy - good way to reduce demand. Also, dual-clutch gearboxes seem to hide some of the downsides of forced induction. Comes down to the point that those of us that love driving manuals need to keep buying them.

DCT offers superior performance, but I would guess that many (though probably no one on this forum) opt for it due to an inability to operate a manual transmission. It's difficult to text and drive a manual.

Ironically, for me, the fact that I don't need that last nth degree of performance and just enjoy the act of driving and shifting is what kept me in the 6MT camp.

It's a shame, but there is no doubt in my mind that manual transmissions will die off - probably in a couple of generations.

[Curt2000]

Since when was the ///M division concerned with fuel savings and CO2? I say to hell with them on M cars...if I wanted a car with great fuel efficiency and CO2 ratings Id get a 328i.

[1sikbmr]

Originally Posted by Curt2000

Since when was the ///M division concerned with fuel savings and CO2? I say to hell with them on M cars...if I wanted a car with great fuel efficiency and CO2 ratings Id get a 328i.

Since the law came into play

[Curt2000]

Originally Posted by 1sikbmr

Since the law came into play

Meh...just keep upping the efficiency of the 3/5 series and bring in the new I series cars to balance out the total brand figure.