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      02-19-2013, 09:37 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensi09
What kind of wheels do you guys have?

From a roll, I'd say that the 265s have the advantage over the 305s due to weight. With a 4-5lbs difference per corner, that makes a noticeable difference in these type of runs.
We both are running Pilot Super Sports...and we are just as curious!!! Haha
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      02-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rantarM3
I think to validly compare tunes you'd have to run them on the same car, with the same driver, on the same course, and with similar atmospheric conditions. Your test will run an E90 v E92, different drivers, different tires, and it seems that in a not particularly controlled environment (i.e., the street). My prediction is that you won't be able to determine any meaningful difference, but I'm nevertheless interested in seeing what happens.

Good luck and be safe.
+1
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      02-19-2013, 12:45 PM   #25
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STi, thanks for doing this. These are the tunes I'm interested as well (add Evolve to the mix too) and will have similar mods.

What kind of OEM exhaust mod do you have, bypass or perforated pipes? I'm holding out on a tune until I get test pipes, but since I already have a bypass OEM muffler, I'm not sure how that'll sound. I've heard a few terrible videos and it's kind of hard to tell. Wanted to see what your experience has been. Thanks again.
I have the bypass style, straight through.
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      02-19-2013, 12:53 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by kwike92 View Post
+1
Other than a slight difference in weight (roughly 22lbs.) and the driver, the cars are the exact same thing, same road and atmospheric conditions. Not to mention I don't have a sunroof so you could say we are even on weight. Not quite sure how exact you guys want this. You swear like a drop in filter (for example) will make some life altering difference in the runs. I am sure my friend and I can count on each other to hit the paddle shifter at redline.

Nevertheless this will still be a great way to compare the two tunes. This is how people have been comparing tunes for years if you didn't know.

BTW, you were the deciding factor for my spacer/springs setup, thanks!
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      02-19-2013, 01:07 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by rantarM3
I think to validly compare tunes you'd have to run them on the same car, with the same driver, on the same course, and with similar atmospheric conditions. Your test will run an E90 v E92, different drivers, different tires, and it seems that in a not particularly controlled environment (i.e., the street). My prediction is that you won't be able to determine any meaningful difference, but I'm nevertheless interested in seeing what happens.

Good luck and be safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwike92 View Post
+1
+1

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      02-19-2013, 01:15 PM   #28
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The best way to eliminate driver influence is for both cars to put both cars DCT in the same mode, and both cars use vBox's. I'm not sure you remember seeing these, but my buddy made a program that can create a racing video directly from the vBox files. If you
tell the program to race from 40-140, 60-130, or whatever, then the program will line the cars up and create an exact video of the race based on the data in the vBox files. Everything is perfectly to scale and eliminates driver influence or one driver jumping the
gun on the other, etc.

Take a look:



If you both don't have vBox's, go get them or borrow them. You'll like using them anyways. Then when you're done, send me the files and I'll have my buddy make the video.
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      02-19-2013, 01:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC3 View Post
Originally Posted by rantarM3
I think to validly compare tunes you'd have to run them on the same car, with the same driver, on the same course, and with similar atmospheric conditions. Your test will run an E90 v E92, different drivers, different tires, and it seems that in a not particularly controlled environment (i.e., the street). My prediction is that you won't be able to determine any meaningful difference, but I'm nevertheless interested in seeing what happens.

Good luck and be safe.



+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
The best way to eliminate driver influence is for both cars to put both cars DCT in the same mode, and both cars use vBox's. I'm not sure you remember seeing these, but my buddy made a program that can create a racing video directly from the vBox files. If you
tell the program to race from 40-140, 60-130, or whatever, then the program will line the cars up and create an exact video of the race based on the data in the vBox files. Everything is perfectly to scale and eliminates driver influence or one driver jumping the
gun on the other, etc.

Take a look:



If you both don't have vBox's, go get them or borrow them. You'll like using them anyways. Then when you're done, send me the files and I'll have my buddy make the video.
Wow you guys are really over thinking this IMO. If one of us get the jump on the other we start over, if one messes up we start over. We have hundreds of miles on the autobahn to make this near perfect.

I do like that software, I just don't see myself buying it.
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      02-19-2013, 02:06 PM   #30
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Look, No matter what you do, Someone will start arguing about the way it was done unless its done with a video based on a VBOX files.
There's nothing to buy,It's 100% free.
All you have to do is capture the runs on a VBOX and send me the files.
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      02-19-2013, 02:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_traitor View Post
Wow you guys are really over thinking this IMO. If one of us get the jump on the other we start over, if one messes up we start over. We have hundreds of miles on the autobahn to make this near perfect.

I do like that software, I just don't see myself buying it.
You'd be surprised how small a difference it takes to completely skew the results, especially with cars that are close.
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      02-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Look, No matter what you do, Someone will start arguing about the way it was done unless its done with a video based on a VBOX files.
There's nothing to buy,It's 100% free.
All you have to do is capture the runs on a VBOX and send me the files.
Okay, where do I get this free VBOX?
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      02-19-2013, 02:42 PM   #33
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Sti, forgetting about the tune, your smaller/lighter wheels and free air filter should give you a theoretical advantage, but we'll see if that's the case in the stock for stock (pre tune flash) comparos.

On the "different driver" question..why not just switch cars both before and after and see if results are similar.
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      02-19-2013, 02:50 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
Sti, forgetting about the tune, your smaller/lighter wheels and free air filter should give you a theoretical advantage, but we'll see if that's the case in the stock for stock (pre tune flash) comparos.

On the "different driver" question..why not just switch cars both before and after and see if results are similar.
That sounds like a good idea on the driver deal. Thanks for input instead of just bashing the idea. No matter what in the end this is going to be fun to compare.
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      02-19-2013, 02:53 PM   #35
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      02-19-2013, 05:24 PM   #36
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I think everyone is getting a bit ridiculous. If the race is that close that small things like a nanosecond quicker response in flicking the paddle shifter or someones nanosecond reaction time etc than for all intents and purposes the tunes would be considered pretty much the same (given stock vs stock pulls are equal)

The real point of this is if the two stock cars are equal, to look for one of the tunes to be significantly faster. If this is not the case than it will be clear from the video.

Nobody is looking for miliseconds of difference here. Highway pulls with DCT tranny is about the easiest equalizer for any 2 drivers providing they can mash a gas pedal. Its an automatic and you slam the pedal. That is it.
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      02-19-2013, 05:41 PM   #37
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....hmmm it seems I stand corrected

I thought one had the whole EVO system. My bad.

Carry on gentlemen!!!! This should be a blast to see!!!!!!

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      02-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
I think everyone is getting a bit ridiculous. If the race is that close that small things like a nanosecond quicker response in flicking the paddle shifter or someones nanosecond reaction time etc than for all intents and purposes the tunes would be considered pretty much the same (given stock vs stock pulls are equal)

The real point of this is if the two stock cars are equal, to look for one of the tunes to be significantly faster. If this is not the case than it will be clear from the video.

Nobody is looking for miliseconds of difference here. Highway pulls with DCT tranny is about the easiest equalizer for any 2 drivers providing they can mash a gas pedal. Its an automatic and you slam the pedal. That is it.
thank you! this is what we are trying to get at...a milisecond diff in tunes just shows that they are equally worth the money and captures it on video...if one pulls ahead of the other after the stocks are the same then the audience is once again happy seeing it first hand..this is all we are trying to do and not get too technical with it...just a little fun with tuned cars on the Autobahn
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      02-19-2013, 07:07 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STi_traitor View Post
That sounds like a good idea on the driver deal. Thanks for input instead of just bashing the idea. No matter what in the end this is going to be fun to compare.
+1
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      02-19-2013, 07:17 PM   #40
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Best possible way to do this is to use both software tunes on one car, not two with different mods and tire sizes etc.

Dyno the car with stock software as a baseline (min of 3 runs and take the average), clear adaptations, flash the car with BPM, re-dyno (min of 3 runs and take the average), clear adaptations, Flash the car with ESS and repeat the above process.

After some dyno numbers have been established, V-Box runs would be an excellent addition to show how the numbers translate into a real world pull on the street.

With all of the above being said, I do still look forward to seeing the results of your testing!
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      02-19-2013, 07:19 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Best possible way to do this is to use both software tunes on one car, not two with different mods and tire sizes etc.

Dyno the car with stock software as a baseline (min of 3 runs and take the average), clear adaptations, flash the car with BPM, re-dyno (min of 3 runs and take the average), clear adaptations, Flash the car with ESS and repeat the above process.

After some dyno numbers have been established, V-Box runs would be an excellent addition to show how the numbers translate into a real world pull on the street.

With all of the above being said, I do still look forward to seeing the results of your testing!
Not gonna work. The tunes aren't swappable from car to car.
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      02-19-2013, 07:52 PM   #42
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Not gonna work. The tunes aren't swappable from car to car.
Do either Benvo or ESS have a money back guarantee like Evolve? If so, one guy should buy both tunes and return the loser.
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      02-20-2013, 12:33 AM   #43
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Not gonna work. The tunes aren't swappable from car to car.
I do realize that they are locked to the VIN but putting tunes on the same car is in reality the only true way for a 100% accurate comparison.

At the very least I think both guys should be running stock wheel and tire sizes....... Maybe someone can loan the gentleman with the 305's a set of stock wheels/tires to make the comparison a little more legitimate!
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      02-20-2013, 02:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
I think everyone is getting a bit ridiculous. If the race is that close that small things like a nanosecond quicker response in flicking the paddle shifter or someones nanosecond reaction time etc than for all intents and purposes the tunes would be considered pretty much the same (given stock vs stock pulls are equal)

The real point of this is if the two stock cars are equal, to look for one of the tunes to be significantly faster. If this is not the case than it will be clear from the video.

Nobody is looking for miliseconds of difference here. Highway pulls with DCT tranny is about the easiest equalizer for any 2 drivers providing they can mash a gas pedal. Its an automatic and you slam the pedal. That is it.
+1

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Originally Posted by SROC3 View Post
....hmmm it seems I stand corrected

I thought one had the whole EVO system. My bad.

Carry on gentlemen!!!! This should be a blast to see!!!!!!

All good! This VBOX seems interesting, technology is crazy these days.

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Originally Posted by urBan_dK View Post
Do either Benvo or ESS have a money back guarantee like Evolve? If so, one guy should buy both tunes and return the loser.
That's a shady idea, but I like it. I think they are on to you now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
I do realize that they are locked to the VIN but putting tunes on the same car is in reality the only true way for a 100% accurate comparison.

At the very least I think both guys should be running stock wheel and tire sizes....... Maybe someone can loan the gentleman with the 305's a set of stock wheels/tires to make the comparison a little more legitimate!
Thats a good idea with the tires, wouldn't hurt to try. I think Manari can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manari06 View Post
+1
Manari, read the quote above. Do you still have your OEM wheels? Maybe we can use yours for the pulls. Do you have PSS on your OEM?
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