BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Lux Angel Eyes
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-15-2013, 04:12 PM   #23
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
121
Rep
8,517
Posts

 
Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigApple View Post
Not really at this point because of the shortage .. they stopped touching the car and point at the aftermarket installs... Seems thing are at a standstill.
i don't know electronically what the short will affect, and I wouldn't have the tools to clear our the code or do any resets on the engine computer. But swapping an ignition coil and plug is a simple DIY. There's a DIY on our forum for this...
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2013, 04:13 PM   #24
BigApple
Private
BigApple's Avatar
2
Rep
93
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 e93
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris s View Post
can you be more specific as to the "Engine malfunction"?
I wish i could but that is all i was told by the dealer...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2013, 04:15 PM   #25
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
329
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
i don't know electronically what the shortage will affect, and I wouldn't have the tools to clear our the code or do any resets on the engine computer. But swapping an ignition coil and plug is a simple DIY. There's a DIY on our forum for this...
Its not normal for coilpacks to be faulty on a 3-month old M3. It's likely one of the devices giving false errors.

OP needs to remove the aftermarket devices one at a time to find out what is causing the errors.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2013, 04:15 PM   #26
BigApple
Private
BigApple's Avatar
2
Rep
93
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 e93
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Proper follow-through procedures were listed already, it's up to you what steps are taken from this point forward.
Thanks for your thoughts...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-15-2013, 04:16 PM   #27
mdosu
Banned
No_Country
121
Rep
8,517
Posts

 
Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Its not normal for coilpacks to be faulty on a 3-month old M3. It's likely one of the devices giving false errors.

OP needs to remove the aftermarket devices one at a time to find out what is causing the errors.
There's a few 2012 and 2013 models on this forum that went in with random misfire issues. I think some dealers replaced the coils (and likely the plugs) as the remedy. there was a mention this affected post-2011 cars, for some reason.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 08:31 AM   #28
dejavu000
New Member
United_States
0
Rep
11
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 Gray M3
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigApple View Post
I am shocked that it comes to this...

a 90day old e93 M3.

I had aftermarket Alarm and Radar protection installed from a Professional Location.

All fine about 3 weeks later (2 days ago) my Engine showed a Engine Malfunction Message. Went to the Dealer ... Dealer says it could be because of the Aftermarket install... And that there is possible no more warranty protection because of it... I cant belive it. Now they dont knwo what causes it and how to fix it. I Called the Aftermarket installer and they say they get that a lot that Dealers blame outside companies.
The funny thing is the aftermarket installers do work for other BMW dealerships. They install Radars for them also. Just not for this specific Dealer.
Now i am stuck in the middle of this Blame Shifting game.

How do you tackle this mess... i am not sure... any thoughts...
I hate it when dealerships use that excuse, that is BS
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 09:41 AM   #29
BigApple
Private
BigApple's Avatar
2
Rep
93
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 e93
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

UPDATE

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejavu000 View Post
I hate it when dealerships use that excuse, that is BS
As of Now the dealer decided to stop working on it as they replaced the coil on cylinder 1 and put a new ecu in.
After replacing the coil they had a 6' spark shoot out of the coil unit.
Now i have to remove my aftermarket wiring for them to have no more else to point but themselfs. (have to towe the car to my radar/alarm installer 40 minutes away) they will remove all 3rd party wiring.
When back to normal we will see whats next.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 11:09 AM   #30
Jayp0d
Banned
United_States
2
Rep
165
Posts

 
Drives: *
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: *

iTrader: (0)

Good luck BigApple - please keep us updated.

I was just telling one of my friends that I was going to get a professional radar detector installed in my next car - now I'm thinking twice.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 11:36 AM   #31
BigApple
Private
BigApple's Avatar
2
Rep
93
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 e93
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldsy View Post
Good luck BigApple - please keep us updated.

I was just telling one of my friends that I was going to get a professional radar detector installed in my next car - now I'm thinking twice.
Escort 9500ci has a great benefit it is completely concealed... but that is now its biggest problem...

i spent over $6500 to have it all installed Alarm/Radar/RearviewCamera

Have it done right is nice but the Dealerhip doesnt care even if done right.

I will pay for the towing, Removal and towing back to another dealership.

IF the problem still shows. I will make sure they will pay for my costs doing all the work for nothing.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #32
Edjay
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
351
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 AW, 76 2002
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sacoftomatoes Ca

iTrader: (0)

Let me tell you a story. When I worked as a tech. We had a 2 week old car came in with brake problems (or lack of). After diagnosing,I came to the conclusion that the brake booster was the problem. While dis assembly I quickly realized that the "professional" installed alarm was the culprit. During instalation, they had drilled through the firewall, guess what, they had drilled the brake booster. The owner went through the roof when he was given the bill. Swore to take us to court, even filed a complaint with BAR. But it was the installers fault.

Why the story? Goes to show professional installer makes mistakes too. Sometimes once the damage is done, even if you remove the culprit its too late. I say at this point pay to get it fixed no matter what it cost, just make sure you have everything documented. It will come down to a point you can either go after your warranty if they cant prove anything, or installer if it was proven he damaged the car due to his work. Worse case call your insurance company see if they can cover the damages done.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 12:56 PM   #33
BigApple
Private
BigApple's Avatar
2
Rep
93
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 e93
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edjay View Post
Let me tell you a story. When I worked as a tech. We had a 2 week old car came in with brake problems (or lack of). After diagnosing,I came to the conclusion that the brake booster was the problem. While dis assembly I quickly realized that the "professional" installed alarm was the culprit. During instalation, they had drilled through the firewall, guess what, they had drilled the brake booster. The owner went through the roof when he was given the bill. Swore to take us to court, even filed a complaint with BAR. But it was the installers fault.

Why the story? Goes to show professional installer makes mistakes too. Sometimes once the damage is done, even if you remove the culprit its too late. I say at this point pay to get it fixed no matter what it cause, just make sure you have everything documented. It will come down to a point you can either go after your warranty if they cant prove anything, or installer if it was proven he damaged the car due to his work. Worse case call your insurance company see if they can cover the damages done.
Thanks for your thoughts... but lets say it was the Aftermarket install ... how would i proove that. They dont let me in the shop when they work on the car. They can tell me anything. I have to take their word for it.
__________________

Last edited by BigApple; 02-17-2013 at 01:23 PM.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 01:50 PM   #34
Edjay
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
351
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 AW, 76 2002
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sacoftomatoes Ca

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigApple View Post
Thanks for your thoughts... but lets say it was the Aftermarket install ... how would i proove that. They dont let me in the shop when they work on the car. They can tell me anything. I have to take their word for it.
Get everything in writing. If the dealer will blame the aftermarket parts or install then, they need to put it in writing on the RO or invoice. I would not recommend paying or authorizing anything without it being written down.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #35
NELSON.MLGB
Captain
NELSON.MLGB's Avatar
Canada
8
Rep
685
Posts

 
Drives: 2010 E92 JB M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Calgary,AB

iTrader: (3)

Bad coil since ur car is fairly new, there is no chance that u have a worn out Spark plug.
Appreciate 0
      02-17-2013, 04:33 PM   #36
Dolittle
Private
Dolittle's Avatar
3
Rep
52
Posts

 
Drives: e92 AW M3 DCT
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edjay View Post
Get everything in writing. If the dealer will blame the aftermarket parts or install then, they need to put it in writing on the RO or invoice. I would not recommend paying or authorizing anything without it being written down.

Ditto.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #37
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts


 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldsy View Post
Good luck BigApple - please keep us updated.

I was just telling one of my friends that I was going to get a professional radar detector installed in my next car - now I'm thinking twice.
It's an easy install and when done correctly will not hurt the car whatsoever.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 11:05 AM   #38
M3takesNYC
Banned
8
Rep
426
Posts

 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Thetech: It seems your advice is most unuseful here. Telling someone to go back to their dealer and say "You need to prove it was the aftermarket stuff otherwise you need to keep working on the car" Its just basic social skills and dealing with people that should really tell you that this approach will get him nowhere. You catch more bee's with honey is a saying that comes to mind. Even if you speak the truth, the delivery of information is suspect.

Personally I would have (too late now if you took the other approach OP) was went and said : Hey, I really really appreciate you guys taking the time to look into this when it very well could have been the other installer's mistake. I am going to go talk to the other people and get a list of what was done exactly for their install and bring it back to you. I am happy to pay for diagnostics out of pocket and repairs if you guys are sure it was their fault, no problem at all. I just appreciate you taking care of this and I would like to put a good word in for how helpful you have been and how out of your way you went to help with your manager. Let me know if you want me to pay out of pocket before hand or just bill me.
.....
9 times out of 10 this will have had them continue to work on his car and do it willingingly and happily. Probably would go the extra step and do it even more quickly. Empowering someone to want to do it for you rather than strongarming is a lesson 99 percent of people need to learn.

Sure 1/10 dealers may demand money upfront, refuse the repair etc. However that puts you on par with the 9/10 dealers who would refuse working on it if you strongarm them.

Just my .02

In the end, when your installing electronics on modern cars its an entire crapshoot if you need to access the ecu which is essentially everything. The install on an m3 with an entirely different ECU is different on your past 335 and every other model year of bmw. I have no doubt it was the installer. If it was not than do as everyone is saying and get documentation.

Good luck!
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 11:18 AM   #39
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts


 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Thetech: It seems your advice is most unuseful here. Telling someone to go back to their dealer and say "You need to prove it was the aftermarket stuff otherwise you need to keep working on the car" Its just basic social skills and dealing with people that should really tell you that this approach will get him nowhere. You catch more bee's with honey is a saying that comes to mind. Even if you speak the truth, the delivery of information is suspect.

Personally I would have (too late now if you took the other approach OP) was went and said : Hey, I really really appreciate you guys taking the time to look into this when it very well could have been the other installer's mistake. I am going to go talk to the other people and get a list of what was done exactly for their install and bring it back to you. I am happy to pay for diagnostics out of pocket and repairs if you guys are sure it was their fault, no problem at all. I just appreciate you taking care of this and I would like to put a good word in for how helpful you have been and how out of your way you went to help with your manager. Let me know if you want me to pay out of pocket before hand or just bill me.
.....
9 times out of 10 this will have had them continue to work on his car and do it willingingly and happily. Probably would go the extra step and do it even more quickly. Empowering someone to want to do it for you rather than strongarming is a lesson 99 percent of people need to learn.

Sure 1/10 dealers may demand money upfront, refuse the repair etc. However that puts you on par with the 9/10 dealers who would refuse working on it if you strongarm them.

Just my .02

In the end, when your installing electronics on modern cars its an entire crapshoot if you need to access the ecu which is essentially everything. The install on an m3 with an entirely different ECU is different on your past 335 and every other model year of bmw. I have no doubt it was the installer. If it was not than do as everyone is saying and get documentation.

Good luck!
If a dealer told me that something on my car was causing an issue yet they don't even know what the issue is, then I stand by my statements. You may not agree and that's fine. When a dealer tells someone that some non-OEM part is causing the issue, it's normally out of naivety that they claim this 99% of the time. What kind of dealer tells a customer that they won't continue to work on a vehicle until it's put back to stock? Sounds like a dealer I want to avoid, not one I wanna sugar coat everything with to continue dealing with.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 11:33 AM   #40
M3takesNYC
Banned
8
Rep
426
Posts

 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
If a dealer told me that something on my car was causing an issue yet they don't even know what the issue is, then I stand by my statements. You may not agree and that's fine. When a dealer tells someone that some non-OEM part is causing the issue, it's normally out of naivety that they claim this 99% of the time. What kind of dealer tells a customer that they won't continue to work on a vehicle until it's put back to stock? Sounds like a dealer I want to avoid, not one I wanna sugar coat everything with to continue dealing with.
And that is of course your choice, however the issue is to consider what is it that the OP and 99 percent of people want in a situation like this? A quickly fixed car that is fixed without any out-of-pocket expense.

Your way as I mentioned will not get you here 9 out of 10 times. It may eventually happen but certainly not quickly in the majority of cases. Nothing will make a dealer be less cooperative and slow at resolution than strongarming them.

So while it probably feels good to you to be the "tough" guy with the dealer, it gets no results.

Life is all a game in one sense or another. The OP is here for advice and I would rather him have advice that will get him his desired outcome.

We can of course simply agree to disagree
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 12:09 PM   #41
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
329
Rep
10,632
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3takesNYC View Post
Thetech: It seems your advice is most unuseful here. Telling someone to go back to their dealer and say "You need to prove it was the aftermarket stuff otherwise you need to keep working on the car" Its just basic social skills and dealing with people that should really tell you that this approach will get him nowhere. You catch more bee's with honey is a saying that comes to mind. Even if you speak the truth, the delivery of information is suspect.

Personally I would have (too late now if you took the other approach OP) was went and said : Hey, I really really appreciate you guys taking the time to look into this when it very well could have been the other installer's mistake. I am going to go talk to the other people and get a list of what was done exactly for their install and bring it back to you. I am happy to pay for diagnostics out of pocket and repairs if you guys are sure it was their fault, no problem at all. I just appreciate you taking care of this and I would like to put a good word in for how helpful you have been and how out of your way you went to help with your manager. Let me know if you want me to pay out of pocket before hand or just bill me.
.....
9 times out of 10 this will have had them continue to work on his car and do it willingingly and happily. Probably would go the extra step and do it even more quickly. Empowering someone to want to do it for you rather than strongarming is a lesson 99 percent of people need to learn.

Sure 1/10 dealers may demand money upfront, refuse the repair etc. However that puts you on par with the 9/10 dealers who would refuse working on it if you strongarm them.

Just my .02

In the end, when your installing electronics on modern cars its an entire crapshoot if you need to access the ecu which is essentially everything. The install on an m3 with an entirely different ECU is different on your past 335 and every other model year of bmw. I have no doubt it was the installer. If it was not than do as everyone is saying and get documentation.

Good luck!
I completely agree with you. It appears the dealer is willing to help. They simply want the 3rd party devices removed in order to perform their specific job, eliminating troubleshooting on those specific devices.

Dealers/Technicians are people too. No one is going to go out of their way to help when threats/ultimatums are involved, or when a customer is telling them how to perform their job.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 12:22 PM   #42
M3takesNYC
Banned
8
Rep
426
Posts

 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
I completely agree with you. It appears the dealer is willing to help. They simply want the 3rd party devices removed in order to perform their specific job, eliminating troubleshooting on those specific devices.

Dealers/Technicians are people too. No one is going to go out of their way to help when threats/ultimatums are involved, or when a customer is telling them how to perform their job.
People are people is the bottom line. If anyone wants a guide on how to deal with situations like this in their life really would enjoy the absolutely best guide on how to be successful in life on all fronts (including getting warranty work in a dicey situation paid for ) is reading Dale Carnegie's "How to win friends and influence people" It is essentially about influencing people and winning friends in that sense, not to tell you how to become a socialite!

Takes virtually any situation when you want someone to do something for you and enables you to actually get them to be literally excited to want to help you and do what it is you desire and the cool thing is they are doing it all out of their own desire to please you because you confronted them on a way that made them feel that way.

When humans are confronted or someone is confrontational, before we even have time to think about the situation, we automatically react with any possible way that will oppose the other person, be unhelpful and fight against them. That happens before we even can rationalize what the other person actually even wanted or requested.

Listen, Tech and anyone else can go handle their life in anyway they want and I am not telling anyone to change. But since the OP asked for advice, my .02 is taking this approach. No biggie if anyone wants to take their own approach and if they have an even better way than I would love to hear and learn! I ain't perfect and don't know everything by far!!

What I do know from experience is having people want to help you is much easier and productive than forcing people to do something for you. Maybe I am crazy lol
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2013, 12:30 PM   #43
Edjay
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
351
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 AW, 76 2002
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sacoftomatoes Ca

iTrader: (0)

Coming from personal experience.

Someone needs to authorize the work to be done. So if theres a slight chance warranty claims will be denied, the customer needs to authorize the estimated job. If in fact its a warranty issue then the customer is not charged. Now if in fact it was caused by aftermarket product or outside source. Then it is put in writing, explained to the customer then he is billed. Now if the customer does not want to authorize thee work (sign the RO) he is then turned away. Dealers are indipendent of manufacturer. So warranty claims has to be approved, and if denied dealer eats the repair if not authorized by the customer.

Even on our comebacks,we have customer sign a 1 hr diag. We just take the time to explain to them whats going on.

Just keep in mind once all said and done, if it is caused by aftermarket parts. Then get evrything on the invoice, with explanation on how and why. Save all parts. Pay extra if you have too. You can go after the aftermarket shop. You can probably file a claim on your insurance and they may help you go after them.

If it is warranty, and you spend extra money for tow and remove the aftermarket parts. As long as its stated on the RO that the dealer wanted you to do this before any further diag. Then you could try and more likelly get it reimbursed from warranty claims.

Buttom line get everything in detailed writings. You should be covered either way.
Appreciate 0
      02-20-2013, 03:37 PM   #44
BigApple
Private
BigApple's Avatar
2
Rep
93
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 e93
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
I completely agree with you. It appears the dealer is willing to help. They simply want the 3rd party devices removed in order to perform their specific job, eliminating troubleshooting on those specific devices.

Dealers/Technicians are people too. No one is going to go out of their way to help when threats/ultimatums are involved, or when a customer is telling them how to perform their job.
Thanks for your thoughts on this matter.
As of the latest standings... If i want to tow the car to the installer who added the aftermarket units to get them uninstalled. The dealer does not let me go with the car until i pay him the $3K in parts and labor so far invested.
__________________
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST