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      02-11-2013, 09:20 PM   #23
///M Ryder
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Originally Posted by M3roar View Post
Phil, though I do not disagree with their behavior being unprofessional. I would highly recommend this thread and others like it be completely deleted. If it comes down to it and they read this stuff. It'll piss them off more than solve problems. I see they could do better in management and priorities but I want to make sure we're not "group bashing" an organization that could refuse us service just based on our frustrations being publicly documented through this forum.
Really? If you had info about the entire situation you might not feel this way. This organization had plenty of time to respond to us. We called and we emailed....we got nothing from them but ignored. You sound like a scared kid who called out the school yard bully and now you think he's waiting at the bus stop for you. What this organization did was wrong, period, point, blank. The only way to stop this type of nonsense is to call it out so others who might deal with them have some insight to how they operate. And as for your comment in red text.......what don't you get......they have already told us they don't want our business.
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      02-11-2013, 09:44 PM   #24
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C'mon guys. Let's not get into it with each other.

All of us enjoy the club and the track days at MSRH. I doubt based on what you say that they'll change their mind over night. This thread probably won't make a difference either way.

I would hope that they would come up with a counter offer. I still don't see why if they have an open day that they wouldn't want our money, but I am not in their shoes.

In the meantime, hopefully we can find some alternatives.
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      02-11-2013, 10:28 PM   #25
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C'mon guys. Let's not get into it with each other.
I totally agree but when I read such comments it irritates me. Please understand, my goal is to bring attention to the way they handled this situation and then ignored our request to discuss it. If they had approached it differently this thread wouldn't exist. For someone to ask me to delete this thread based on their individual feelings is absurd. We work hard at making the Houston M Club a positive experience for everyone we interact with. Is it too much to ask for the same common courtesies in return? Especially from a organization we are giving money to.
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      02-11-2013, 10:32 PM   #26
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I totally agree but when I read such comments it irritates me. Please understand, my goal is to bring attention to the way they handled this situation and then ignored our request to discuss it. If they had approached it differently this thread wouldn't exist. For someone to ask me to delete this thread based on their individual feelings is absurd. We work hard at making the Houston M Club a positive experience for everyone we interact with. Is it too much to ask for the same common courtesies in return? Especially from a organization we are giving money to.
Begin with end in mind. The desired state is to be able to have a positive professional experience with MSRH where they host M Club events again. How do we get there?
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      02-11-2013, 10:37 PM   #27
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Begin with end in mind. The desired state is to be able to have a positive professional experience with MSRH where they host M Club events again. How do we get there?
I did just that......don't want to speak on it just yet but stay tuned.
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      02-11-2013, 11:11 PM   #28
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My car does 160mph...gps verified. It was legal.
Might be GPS verefied, but not legal!
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      02-11-2013, 11:12 PM   #29
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[quote=ThunderMoose;13465861]Begin with end in mind. QUOTE]

okay - you read covey. now sharpen the saw.

seriously, while it looks pretty on paper, a win-win is not always achievable. we walk into things thinking that, but it applies best within the same organization (i.e. your company). when you are talking about customers or suppliers, it cannot always be win-win. in the end, everyone is looking to make money and have the upper hand. you do not get to the top being soft on issues. tough on issues but soft on people. people like the folks that run MSRH are not like Jack Welch. their business savvy is far less than a lot of us that run successful business operations. we cannot change the players, the mindsets or the poor decision making of others. we move on.

thanks, phil, for working as hard as you have on this.
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      02-11-2013, 11:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
Really? If you had info about the entire situation you might not feel this way. This organization had plenty of time to respond to us. We called and we emailed....we got nothing from them but ignored. You sound like a scared kid who called out the school yard bully and now you think he's waiting at the bus stop for you. What this organization did was wrong, period, point, blank. The only way to stop this type of nonsense is to call it out so others who might deal with them have some insight to how they operate. And as for your comment in red text.......what don't you get......they have already told us they don't want our business.
Sorry Phil, didnt mean to offend you. Bringing light to the issue is great. But I was simply addressing the bashing. Hope you're not upset with me. You know I try to make peace and not war.
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      02-12-2013, 04:05 AM   #31
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okay - you read covey. now sharpen the saw.

seriously, while it looks pretty on paper, a win-win is not always achievable. we walk into things thinking that, but it applies best within the same organization (i.e. your company). when you are talking about customers or suppliers, it cannot always be win-win. in the end, everyone is looking to make money and have the upper hand. you do not get to the top being soft on issues. tough on issues but soft on people. people like the folks that run MSRH are not like Jack Welch. their business savvy is far less than a lot of us that run successful business operations. we cannot change the players, the mindsets or the poor decision making of others. we move on.

thanks, phil, for working as hard as you have on this.
I agree in part with what you say, but explain more about "we move on."

My personal BATNA for tracking is pretty attractive (I also read Getting to Yes) in that 95% of my track days are with PDS at TWS and with Driver's Edge at MSRH/TWS. I am now starting with NASA. However, I enjoy the camaraderie of the M Club Events and MSRH is a track that I enjoy and is convenient. So while I have a lot of personal options, I don't think we have a lot of club options. I have not been to GSS, but it doesn't seem to be an E9x-friendly track. Next closest is TWS, and that's a 2 hour drive for a lot of which removes the 1/2 day option. So I am back to where I started, let's work to find a way to work with MSRH or I am doubtful that we'll have the same track experience anywhere else.

So when you say move on, what are we moving on to? I am asking, not trying to be argumentative (seeking first to understand )
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      02-12-2013, 10:14 AM   #32
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I agree in part with what you say, but explain more about "we move on."

So when you say move on, what are we moving on to? I am asking, not trying to be argumentative (seeking first to understand )
and then to be understood. you are such the covey man.

Believe me. I love that short drive. If we could keep driving at MSRH, I would be happy. At the same time, I am always very cautious of getting too close to a business that is going through bankruptcy. I almost lost a very expensive LAM for my HK Mark 23 due to that, and my brother lost a good bit on some optics from another gun dealer. That is why I cannot support signing my kid up for the teen school 3 months ahead of time. I also have to think that this situation is better than being dumped with a week's notice. At least we know with enough time to come up with another plan. It seems like poor management from MSR. You'd think they would let us drive there considering how many open days I see on their online calendar. I guess that is why they are going out of business and in bankruptcy.

As far as move on, I think it can be a waste to put a lot of effort in a no-win situation. It is like throwing good money after bad. I do not like the longer drive or worse track layout than anyone else, but I would like us to plan for something else before all the track days are full. At least Phil can now be looking at that option rather than float through 2013 with nothing for the M-Club.

Scott

any typos are due to lack of oxygen in Vail.
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      02-12-2013, 11:55 AM   #33
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I am with you. The funny part is I've never really read the book. Those damn phrases are thrown around so much at my work I just parrot them by habit.

Enjoy Vail.

You should come out to TWS one weekend with PDS. If you're solo you can get a lot of track time.
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      02-12-2013, 04:30 PM   #34
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I'd like to chime in here.

First, the purpose of the announcement is to 1) inform our members of what happened, and 2) inform the public of MSR Houston's business practice and bankruptcy status so that they are aware when they choose or not choose to run events there.

To be blatantly honest, Phil, James, or I have nothing to lose here. All of Houston M Club's events are not-for-profit, and we actually chipped in our own money when our events lost money. We've invested our own time and resources into M Club because we enjoy the comradery of all the members of the Club.

On the other hand, YOU, the members of M Club, are people who have something to lose here. You have been denied access to run at a great race track for a half day with a wonderful group of guys for $180... and many times with food and drinks included.

So, please understand that we are actually fighting for you. And let's show some support for Phil and what he does for all of us
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      02-12-2013, 05:28 PM   #35
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I appreciate you guys. I am extremely thankful for the events the M club has put on and will do whatever you need to support the club. I am sorry that MSRH made the decision they did and hope they'll come around or that we can find other track options. I apologize if any of my comments did not come across as supportive.
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      02-12-2013, 11:15 PM   #36
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I'd like to chime in here.

First, the purpose of the announcement is to 1) inform our members of what happened, and 2) inform the public of MSR Houston's business practice and bankruptcy status so that they are aware when they choose or not choose to run events there.

To be blatantly honest, Phil, James, or I have nothing to lose here. All of Houston M Club's events are not-for-profit, and we actually chipped in our own money when our events lost money. We've invested our own time and resources into M Club because we enjoy the comradery of all the members of the Club.

On the other hand, YOU, the members of M Club, are people who have something to lose here. You have been denied access to run at a great race track for a half day with a wonderful group of guys for $180... and many times with food and drinks included.

So, please understand that we are actually fighting for you. And let's show some support for Phil and what he does for all of us
I've done the proper army technique of reading this thread three times. So what is the point? To boycott MSR Houston? I hope the intent is not to achieve what FB did for COTA. Because that was based on a much larger population.

I haven't heard of this bankruptcy. I know Taxmasters was from the Wall Street Journal who was a large contributor to MSRH. I'm not judging M Club or anything anyone from M Club but you need to look at your market and the competition.

If I were the track Management, I would be highly concerned about the lack of manned flag stations especially since there are new drivers. Flags and safety are far more critical skills to learn as a beginner, not speed. Quite frankly, i personally disagree with turning new drivers loose to drive solo before the end of the first day. Then I'm sure this thread isn't making things better.

I don't know the nitty gritty but I will continue to drive at MSR Houston with the Driver's Edge. From my experience, MSR Houston has been great to deal with. They adjust when requested, brim the fuel tanks when needed, and take care of the DE org.

Again, don't think it's fair that they just shut the M Club out with no explanation.
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      02-13-2013, 12:11 AM   #37
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I've done the proper army technique of reading this thread three times. So what is the point? To boycott MSR Houston? I hope the intent is not to achieve what FB did for COTA. Because that was based on a much larger population.

I haven't heard of this bankruptcy. I know Taxmasters was from the Wall Street Journal who was a large contributor to MSRH. I'm not judging M Club or anything anyone from M Club but you need to look at your market and the competition.

If I were the track Management, I would be highly concerned about the lack of manned flag stations especially since there are new drivers. Flags and safety are far more critical skills to learn as a beginner, not speed. Quite frankly, i personally disagree with turning new drivers loose to drive solo before the end of the first day. Then I'm sure this thread isn't making things better.

I don't know the nitty gritty but I will continue to drive at MSR Houston with the Driver's Edge. From my experience, MSR Houston has been great to deal with. They adjust when requested, brim the fuel tanks when needed, and take care of the DE org.

Again, don't think it's fair that they just shut the M Club out with no explanation.
I was going to stay out of this but please understand the following comments. Our goal is to bring attention to the business practices of MSR-Houston, nothing more, nothing less. All we want to do is inform the motorsports community of how they handle a issue, problem (whatever you call it). Please read this sentence a couple of times so you get it......ready.......The Houston M Club didn't post this looking for a pitty party. The Houston M Club has already started planning our next track event(s). The decision to give MSR-Houston your money is yours, not ours. But the M Club leadership has decided to spend our money with organizations that operate with honesty and integrity. Thanks to all that understood what this was all about........Phil

Mods, you can lock this thread up.......it's a wrap. The Houston M Club has moved on
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