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      02-08-2013, 09:50 AM   #45
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Yet another ugly and heavy VW.
With every new car they release Audi moves further away from their origins: The original legendary Quattro.
They keep gettin heavier, bigger, and stay soulless. Hate this. They´re not even close to BMW when it comes to sportiness or soul.

Straight line figures on Paper mean nothing when it does not corner properly.(

And I think Audi is doing BMW Enthusiasts a favor:

People who dont care about driving/handling and being blinded by Figures on Paper will buy Audis, while real Motoring-Enthusiasts will stay with BMW.

I do not see myself buying an overexpensed VW anytime soon.
Mmmmm....not agreed with the big and ugly VW thing !
Think...that Lamborgini...yes even the Aventador...the owner is... yes...VW !!
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      02-08-2013, 10:14 AM   #46
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meh, saw the S7 at the autoshow this week. The S6 and S7 is way too expensive for what you get for the money. The A6 and A7 cars are too similar, with the S7 actually smaller for passengers. So we're paying up for less room for the same performance of a S6 (or RS6, whatever the comparison is)? No thanks.


Given this RS7 will come out at around $100k, it is just not worth it to me. RS7 adds some HP and other "fancy-boy" trinkets of high performance.
I was there this week as well. Have to say the Audis were a little lukewarm. They look so good in pictures, but the interior quality of materials just did not seem to appeal to me. BMWs feel more solid somehow, not that I am a BMW fanboy, but just making an observation.

I was also a little disappointed at the Jags and LRs. Their switch gear felt very rubbery and not in a good way.
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      02-08-2013, 10:23 AM   #47
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I was there this week as well. Have to say the Audis were a little lukewarm. They look so good in pictures, but the interior quality of materials just did not seem to appeal to me. BMWs feel more solid somehow, not that I am a BMW fanboy, but just making an observation.

I was also a little disappointed at the Jags and LRs. Their switch gear felt very rubbery and not in a good way.
I acutally love Audi exterior and interiors. That's the best part of Audi cars today. Especially those S cars on display this year.
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      02-08-2013, 10:47 AM   #48
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I acutally love Audi exterior and interiors. That's the best part of Audi cars today. Especially those S cars on display this year.
Yep I noted this after the seattle show. Interior of audi is smashing bmw. I hope the m3 can match the rs5 but they have a tough starting point. My loaner 328 sport I have right now has fugly interior.
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      02-08-2013, 10:49 AM   #49
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I get the love for Audi interior design, but having owned a few, they sure are cheaply made. The very top surface is nice, but the stuff you find under the surface is shockingly cheap and flimsy. I have taken apart lots of interior BMW trim (my previous M Coupe needed the whole hatch area disassembled to replace the rear shock mounts) and never had trouble with breaking trim pieces or recycling plastic fasteners, but Audi trim pieces nearly always broke on me and fasteners were single use only.

The average owner won't care, but it bugs me that Audi seems to be proverbially only pretty skin deep.
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      02-08-2013, 10:54 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChRR1000S View Post
Yet another ugly and heavy VW.
With every new car they release Audi moves further away from their origins: The original legendary Quattro.
They keep gettin heavier, bigger, and stay soulless. Hate this. They´re not even close to BMW when it comes to sportiness or soul.

Straight line figures on Paper mean nothing when it does not corner properly.(

And I think Audi is doing BMW Enthusiasts a favor:

People who dont care about driving/handling and being blinded by Figures on Paper will buy Audis, while real Motoring-Enthusiasts will stay with BMW.

I do not see myself buying an overexpensed VW anytime soon.
Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but opinions should somehow be related to actual facts.

Fact 1: Audi's "origins" go back to pre-war Germany, where in fact the legendary Auto Union race car was built in the late '30s. The four interlocked circles are in fact representative of the original Auto Union enterprise. By comparison, "Quattro" is very recent, and far from Audi's origins.

Fact 2: When you're talking about bigger, heavier, and without soul, I hope you'ved saved some of your hate for BMW and other brands who are all marching in lockstep in this regard.

Fact 3: Perhaps you've missed some of the postings in this forum wherein the RS5 tends to be quicker around race tracks than the M3, and perhaps you've also missed the recent Car & Driver test where the comparatively lowly S6 beat up on the M5? You think the RS7 will not be quicker and handle better than the S6?

Fact 4: Calling an Audi an "ugly and heavy VW" is just silliness, and has no basis in fact. None.

Last fact: These manufacturers (along with Mercedes) arguably make terrific cars. They all handle well, go well, stop well, and for the most part, look very good as well. Hating on one or another of these brands in order for you to feel better about "your" brand is just dumb. Individual preferences vary.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 02-08-2013 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Spelling
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      02-08-2013, 10:58 AM   #51
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Yep I noted this after the seattle show. Interior of audi is smashing bmw. I hope the m3 can match the rs5 but they have a tough starting point. My loaner 328 sport I have right now has fugly interior.
entry level Audi's are just as crappy though..
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      02-08-2013, 11:22 AM   #52
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could be never spent any time in one. s4, rs4, rs5 and r8 is about it.
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      02-08-2013, 11:36 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Everybody's entitled to their opinion, but opinions should somehow be related to actual facts.

Fact 1: Audi's "origins" go back to pre-war Germany, where in fact the legendary Auto Union race car was built in the late '30s. The four interlocked circles are in fact representative of the original Auto Union enterprise. By comparison, "Quattro" is very recent, and far from Audi's origins.

Fact 2: When you're talking about bigger, heavier, and without soul, I hope you'ved saved some of your hate for BMW and other brands who are all marching in lockstep in this regard.

Fact 3: Perhaps you've missed some of the postings in this forum wherein the RS5 tends to be quicker around race tracks than the M3, and perhaps you missed the recent Car & Driver test where the comparitively lowly S6 beat up on the M5? You think the RS7 will not be quicker and handle better than the S6?

Fact 4: Calling an Audi an "ugly and heavy VW" is just silliness, and has no basis in fact. None.

Last fact: These manufacturers (along with Mercedes) arguably make terrific cars. They all handle well, go well, stop well, and for the most part, look very good as well. Hating on one or another of these brands in order for you to feel better about "your" brand is just dumb. Individual preferences vary.

Bruce

Ok here is a Fact about Audi:

The Audi which gets sold most is probably the A3.
Now this particular Audi and his derivates (S3/RS/TT/TTRS) share the plattform with the golf, which is a great car no doubt.


Now the Golf is being built in Wolfsburg, Germany. So it indeed is a piece of german engineering/crafting.


The Audi A3 is built in Hungary, a country with very low salary standards. Low Taxes. The most sold models have the TFSI engines, which come from the Factory in Mexico. Another low salary country.


Lets compare the Facts:

The Audi S3 is 41% more expensive over here than the equaly Golf R even though the Audi gets crafted together in a low salary country.


So yes, I dislike the brand "Audi" for charging 40% more money on a Golf that is being built in Hungary.






PS: This is a BMW forum, what did you expect
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      02-08-2013, 12:51 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChRR1000S View Post
Ok here is a Fact about Audi:

The Audi which gets sold most is probably the A3.
Now this particular Audi and his derivates (S3/RS/TT/TTRS) share the plattform with the golf, which is a great car no doubt.


Now the Golf is being built in Wolfsburg, Germany. So it indeed is a piece of german engineering/crafting.


The Audi A3 is built in Hungary, a country with very low salary standards. Low Taxes. The most sold models have the TFSI engines, which come from the Factory in Mexico. Another low salary country.


Lets compare the Facts:

The Audi S3 is 41% more expensive over here than the equaly Golf R even though the Audi gets crafted together in a low salary country.


So yes, I dislike the brand "Audi" for charging 40% more money on a Golf that is being built in Hungary.



PS: This is a BMW forum, what did you expect
OK, let's assume your facts are entirely correct. From my point of view, that means the marketplace has decided that the Audi S3 is clearly worth the money, and the A3 as well, since this platform is Audi's best seller, per you.

One would assume that Audi is making a bunch of money on the A/S3, and this is a problem for you? Do you also hate on BMW for having a very high (close to the highest) profit per car out of all manufacturers?

Do you also hate on Porsche for have the highest profit per car in the industry?

Bruce

PS - I tend to not suffer fanboys/haters lightly, on this or any other forum. I think BMW makes some great cars, but so does Audi.
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      02-08-2013, 01:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
OK, let's assume your facts are entirely correct. From my point of view, that means the marketplace has decided that the Audi S3 is clearly worth the money, and the A3 as well, since this platform is Audi's best seller, per you.

One would assume that Audi is making a bunch of money on the A/S3, and this is a problem for you? Do you also hate on BMW for having a very high (close to the highest) profit per car out of all manufacturers?

Do you also hate on Porsche for have the highest profit per car in the industry?

Bruce

PS - I tend to not suffer fanboys/haters lightly, on this or any other forum. I think BMW makes some great cars, but so does Audi.
Since you apparently love facts here you go:

www.audi.hu


I do not hate it because they make a huge amount of profit on it. The Captialist in me loves this, I hate the fact that they praise the A3/TT as a piece of german crafting while it is built in a former soviet union country.

I love Porsche Cars (Except the Cayenne and the Boxster). They are terrific. So do I love Mercs. But I hate Audis. For practically lying to their customers.


Would you honestly buy a high priced Vino that says it is high cultivated ITALIAN Wine 1985, but was adulerated, lets say in Kasachstan?
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      02-08-2013, 03:31 PM   #56
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Since you apparently love facts here you go:

www.audi.hu
Since I don't speak German (in spite of my "Eyestone" name), I'm not sure what your point is here, other than to substantiate your assertion that Audis are built in Hungary, I guess. But I wasn't doubting you there.

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Originally Posted by ChRR1000S View Post
I do not hate it because they make a huge amount of profit on it. The Captialist in me loves this, I hate the fact that they praise the A3/TT as a piece of german crafting while it is built in a former soviet union country.

I love Porsche Cars (Except the Cayenne and the Boxster). They are terrific. So do I love Mercs. But I hate Audis. For practically lying to their customers.
OK. Are you sure? You keep being slippery on the why of your hatred, but until your next shift in position, let's assume that you actually do hate Audi for "...practically lying to their customers..."

But:

1) Why on earth would that matter? They either give good car or they don't. And...

2) Not that I'm doubting you (ahem), but can you point me to an ad where they tout "German craftmanship" in conjunction with the TT or other models built elsewhere? If you can do this, I will concede your point, although I think it's a minor one.

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Originally Posted by ChRR1000S View Post
Would you honestly buy a high priced Vino that says it is high cultivated ITALIAN Wine 1985, but was adulerated, lets say in Kasachstan?
If you can prove Audi adulteration (meaning TTs, for instance, are built with inferior parts when they're built outside of Germany), then I'll bite, but really, for me it's about whether it's a good car or not, regardless of where it's "built". Chevy builds their vehicles in the U.S, Canada and Mexico. Honda builds their cars in Japan and the U.S., and so on...

In other words, if Kazakhstan can build good cars, that's fine with me.

Bruce

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 02-08-2013 at 04:20 PM.
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