M3 vs GTR, GT3RS 4.0, 550ia, 458 Italia, etc

[dustman]

Track day today in so cal, above cars were all new models except my '11 M3 sedan comp pkg, dct, stock, 25k miles and 10k on PSS tires, never been to this track before.

The stock m3 is an incredible car if you trust it, can drive decently, and are aggressive. Turned in the fastest lap in the midday segment, and top 4 car of the day out of 25 cars (in addition to above, vettes, other non comp pack m3, m3 cab, 335, camaros, etc).
The faster cars were a custom built mustang Shelby gt500 supercharged, suspension etc, in an original 1967 car, the 458, and the Porsche gt3rs 4.0.

I am by no means a good driver, my 3rd track day ever. A middle aged dude now but with video game reflexes.

Stock m3 kept up with the gt3 quite well even on the straights at 130 mph, the gt3 wasn't pulling away. Surprised me.
The GTR ( I owned a '09 model, this one was a '12 black edition) would get on gas early and start pulling like a train away, and then the m3 would hold pace. In turns the m3 would catch up and I would have to hold back. Down the straight it was very close....surprising again.
New 335ia with nice 20" grippy tires was no match.

What I didn't like about the m3: even with comp package seats, you fall out and around them far too much, headroom with helmet is non existent for a 6'1" driver, too much lean in corners (overall the weight of the m3 can really be felt), paddle shifters should be taller ala Scuderia and 458, but that's it. Weight is the biggest issue, and the seats next. Nitpicking there.

What's to love: dct exceptional on track, m settings to fullest including traction in highest race mode never interfered or kicked in, the car was very stable and composed....you would have to be a maniac to screwup, brakes worked fine for 8-10 lap segments at a time, aim for an apex and hit it steering.

If it weren't my dd I would improve the suspension, get far more dedicated tires, and add another 40+ hp to improve the straights performance.

Sorry for any typos, damn tired.

Obv better drivers and different outcomes above. But this was today, with hot cars and some good drivers.

Best, D

[hakaida442]

The RS 4.0 driver must be a terrible driver or just unwilling to push that thing to even 8/10ths if you're keeping up with him. That car should leave your car and many other cars for dead on the track. It's usually the ferrari guys that drive their cars slower than they should at track days.

[dead ringer]

sounds like you had a great time, nice write up! Were you on w/ stock brakes? Any videos you can post?

[GOLFFRR]

what a great day! good to see you are enjoying your car!

[M3 Esq.]

Nice write up. I believe the coupe with the CF roof has a bit more headroom than the sedan (I'm 6"1' as well and I have a good amount of headroom with a decent sized Simpson helmet). Also, the base seats with cloth inserts provide a bit more grip in the turns.

Glad you went out and enjoyed it. The M3 is a blast to drive on the track.

[Donbona]

Sounds like you had an awsome day..... with regards to the paddle shifters I urge you to buy the verstrase extended shifters... they are excellent.

[dustman]

Appreciate the comments and recommendations.
I can tell you the gt3 was pushed very very hard, best driver at the event. That car was faster and handled better no question. But it didn't crush the M.

[UnaBomber]

Originally Posted by dustman

That car was faster and handled better no question. But it didn't crush the M.

this is comical. i got embarassed by a 4.0 in my built road race GTR

and lol at an m3 keeping up with a stock 2012 GTR on the straights

[dustman]

Just reporting the facts from the day. No agenda here, thanks for your positivity.

Originally Posted by UnaBomber

this is comical. i got embarassed by a 4.0 in my built road race GTR

and lol at an m3 keeping up with a stock 2012 GTR on the straights

[UnaBomber]

Originally Posted by dustman

Just reporting the facts from the day. No agenda here, thanks for your positivity.

just loling at the nonsense

[smmmurf]

I had the opportunity to drive a GT3RS 3.8 (2011) on the track and found it much more difficult to drive than my E90 M3, E46 M3, S2K, or Spec Miata. The gearbox is tough to work without actually owning the car and using it on a daily basis. The brakes are incredible and the grip is great. However, it does require some seat time to get used to.

I have a few hundred trackdays and have set pole/won races. I was unprepared to drive the GT3 beyond 7/10ths. In 12 laps I got within ~8 seconds of where the car could be on Thunderhill driven all out. I would need more time to get used to it. The RS 4.0 owner may be just new to the car. Comparatively, in 2 sessions, I was within 2 seconds of Randy Pobst's time at Laguna Seca in my 100% stock E90 M3 (tires & pads stock, too).

I's just a harder car to drive with higher limits and a balance that isn't as intuitive. Once mastered, I'm sure it's incredibly rewarding because it was even a blast to putt putt around in 4th gear all the way around the track because we were still pulling laps faster than anything I have ever driven before that.

[UnaBomber]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

I had the opportunity to drive a GT3RS 3.8 (2011) on the track and found it much more difficult to drive than my E90 M3, E46 M3, S2K, or Spec Miata. The gearbox is tough to work without actually owning the car and using it on a daily basis. The brakes are incredible and the grip is great. However, it does require some seat time to get used to.

I have a few hundred trackdays and have set pole/won races. I was unprepared to drive the GT3 beyond 7/10ths. In 12 laps I got within ~8 seconds of where the car could be on Thunderhill driven all out. I would need more time to get used to it. The RS 4.0 owner may be just new to the car. Comparatively, in 2 sessions, I was within 2 seconds of Randy Pobst's time at Laguna Seca in my 100% stock E90 M3 (tires & pads stock, too).

I's just a harder car to drive with higher limits and a balance that isn't as intuitive. Once mastered, I'm sure it's incredibly rewarding because it was even a blast to putt putt around in 4th gear all the way around the track because we were still pulling laps faster than anything I have ever driven before that.

i had the opportunity for a ride along with Leh Keen in his personal gt3rs at VIR last year and it was by far the most eye opening experience i have ever had. I could not believe what that car could do in the hands of a very capable driver. He literally scared the shit out of me

[THE TECH]

Pics or it didn't happen!

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by UnaBomber

i had the opportunity for a ride along with Leh Keen in his personal gt3rs at VIR last year and it was by far the most eye opening experience i have ever had. I could not believe what that car could do in the hands of a very capable driver. He literally scared the shit out of me

Yes, it is an amazing car. While I can race with pro level drivers in Spec Miatas, the GT3RS is a challenge on a completely different level. The limits are so much higher and the balance rewards a smooth, confident driver. They are more difficult to drive but incredible once mastered, as you experienced.

I would love to have a similar experience at some point, and someday I will master it myself. For now, I'm going to mess around with the Subaru BRZ and new Cayman.

[hakaida442]

Slow in, fast out. It took me awhile to get used to it as well. I'm still trying to get it down to where I don't have to think about it and having it be instinctive.

[m3sparky]

you cant compare your stock m3 to any of the cars mentioned. every single one off them is faster in a straight line and on a road course. i had the last two model m3s and now am lucky to own a 2013 gtr BE. i can spank, f430s, 505hp vipers, z06s when it was stock , now that im running 700 hp itsa bit different. if everyone was a pro at the track and driving their car to the limits its a diff story but , some people are out there warming up or getting used to their cars, or just having a great time . not going balls out trying to beat everybody. jmo

[AhsanU]

Sorry, not believing it.

There's absolutely no way a stock M3 can even remotely keep up with a 2012 GT-R on the straights, absolutely none. Keeping up with it on the bends is one thing (driver could be inexperienced) but mashing the throttle on the straights is another.

[Sakred]

What track did you go to and what time did you run?

[SROC5]

Stock GT-R perhaps there's a chance. An M3 will do 0-120 in about 10.5 seconds, GT-R is somewhere at 10 sec. flat or tad below. So if the GT-R driver was a little late on the throttle, the M3 could keep up with the half second delay. Barely keep up mind you, but definitely hang in there. The M would not be left in the dust per se.

[m3sparky]

Originally Posted by SROC5

Stock GT-R perhaps there's a chance. An M3 will do 0-120 in about 10.5 seconds, GT-R is somewhere at 10 sec. flat or tad below. So if the GT-R driver was a little late on the throttle, the M3 could keep up with the half second delay. Barely keep up mind you, but definitely hang in there.

false info...

stock m3 0–1320 ft (¼ mile) n 12.5 @ 114.8 mph

stock 2012 gtr - 11.0 sec @ 125.5 mph

i went to the track last weekend, and was doing 10.6 @ 133 mph with very bad laucnhes.




NURBERGING LAP TIMES - STOCK CARS

2013 NISSAN GTR - 7:19.18 Nissan GT-R (2013) Toshio Suzuki 14 May 2012 Nissan conducted test with standard Dunlop run-flat tires. Video confirmed. Nissan GT-R 2013 Official Video (11/2012).[13]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:19.63 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 (2012) Jim Mero 9 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[14] base specification car with optional super-slick track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure).[15]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:22.1 Dodge Viper ACR (2009) Tom Coronel 18 August 2008 Chrysler and Motor Trend conducted test.[16]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:22.68 Chevrolet Corvette C6 Z06 (2012) Jim Mero 23 June 2011 General Motors conducted test,[17] base specification car with optional super-slick track DOT competition tires (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Zero Pressure) and Z07 package
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24 Porsche 911 GT2 RS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (11/2010)[18]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24.22 Nissan GT-R (2011) Toshio Suzuki 1 October 2010 Nissan conducted test.[19] Semi-wet conditions. Video confirmed. Best Motoring (12/2010).[20]
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24.3 Maserati MC12 Marc Basseng August 2008 Evo Magazine conducted test
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:24.44 Pagani Zonda F Clubsport
LOWER
LOWER
LOWER
20,600 m (67,600 ft) 7:48 BMW M3 GTS Horst von Saurma Sport Auto[49]

8:05 BMW M3 E92 Horst von Saurma Sport Auto (12/2007)[61]

[konaforever]

Originally Posted by SROC5

Stock GT-R perhaps there's a chance. An M3 will do 0-120 in about 10.5 seconds, GT-R is somewhere at 10 sec. flat or tad below. So if the GT-R driver was a little late on the throttle, the M3 could keep up with the half second delay. Barely keep up mind you, but definitely hang in there. The M would not be left in the dust per se.

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-m3-jan-12.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...issan-gt-r.pdf

M3 - 13.9 seconds - 0-120 mph
2013 GTR - 10.4 - 0-120 mph

[SROC5]

Originally Posted by m3sparky

false info...

stock m3 0–1320 ft (¼ mile) n 12.5 @ 114.8 mph

stock 2012 gtr - 11.0 sec @ 125.5 mph

i went to the track last weekend, and was doing 10.6 @ 133 mph with very bad laucnhes.

Not necessarily, I might have been off on the 120 time, but the quarter mile times you posted support my theory. In fact, GT-R times to 1/4 mile are about 11.2 last I saw from C/D. If the GT-R driver is just off the throttle for second delay, the M3 will have a moment to keep up and not let the GT-R leave him in the dust by several car lengths. That's the point I was trying to communicate. That's what the OP was surprised about and that is somewhat believable.

2012 GT-R C/D results


http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...-amg-jan12.pdf

And keep in mind when you read the M3 numbers, that's a 6MT car so a DCT could be a tad quicker if done right.