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      08-03-2007, 09:07 PM   #23
Big Windy
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the rs4 and the m3 are competitors because motor trend, car and driver, or some other magazine or tv show say so. in my opinion, it is like comparing apples to oranges. the rs4 is an all-wheel drive four door sedan, the m3 is a two door rwd coupe. i have driven an 06 rs4 and a previous model year m3, and they DO NOT drive alike. yeah they both have doors and engines and a little place for a person to sit and turn a wheel, but the rs4 is the third level model of the a4, the m3 is the second level model. is this maybe because the m3 just changed to a v8? i would think that the csl and the rs4 would be a better comparison if any...but let the flame wars continue.
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      08-04-2007, 01:01 AM   #24
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      08-04-2007, 07:36 AM   #25
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the rs4 and the m3 are competitors because motor trend, car and driver, or some other magazine or tv show say so. in my opinion, it is like comparing apples to oranges. the rs4 is an all-wheel drive four door sedan, the m3 is a two door rwd coupe. i have driven an 06 rs4 and a previous model year m3, and they DO NOT drive alike. yeah they both have doors and engines and a little place for a person to sit and turn a wheel, but the rs4 is the third level model of the a4, the m3 is the second level model. is this maybe because the m3 just changed to a v8? i would think that the csl and the rs4 would be a better comparison if any...but let the flame wars continue.
I made this point a couple weeks back and it got shot down. RS models are Audi's top performance cars and CSLs are BMW's, so to compare the M3 to the RS4 just shows how much better the top level M cars are than the top level Audi's, because BMW's second-tier car is neck and neck with the RS4.
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      08-04-2007, 08:48 AM   #26
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yeah CSL i remember when you made that comment in another post. i'm totally with you and i don't have rs4 envy or an audi complex. i don't pay much attention to the s4, and i'm too lazy to look up the performance data, but i am sure it is embarrassing how badly the e92 m3 beats its ass.
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      08-04-2007, 08:51 AM   #27
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Don't know if anyone heard or saw this but it seems that the new M3 and C63 AMG have spooked Audi into increasing the RS4 from 420 to 450.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-new...4-ar40848.html

Could get interesting!
Yes. My understanding is that they will be coming out with a twin-turbo version of the current 420 hp V-8 resulting in approx 450 hp about one year after the next gen A-4 is introduced.
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      08-04-2007, 03:48 PM   #28
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Yes. My understanding is that they will be coming out with a twin-turbo version of the current 420 hp V-8 resulting in approx 450 hp about one year after the next gen A-4 is introduced.
Thats is an OLD post and innacurate....! As stated many times!
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      08-30-2007, 10:26 AM   #29
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It sounds like the 2009 A4 is getting bigger and a few pounds heavier. The real story is the front axle moving forward, which I guess implies the engine doesn't hang over the axle as much. Sounds like the A5 layout. Does anyone know if the 09 A4 and the A5 share the same chassis? What does that mean for the next generation RS4 vs. the E92 M3?

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._a4/index.html
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      08-30-2007, 10:35 AM   #30
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It seems that other manufacturers think that custom settings for throttle, steering etc. are a good idea as well. I suspect that in a few years every luxury brand will have settings and menus that are far too complicated for the nubz that can't use Idrive.... and that we'll have to read about it the magazines... and that we'll have no problem using them when we purchase the car.
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      08-30-2007, 11:08 AM   #31
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It sounds like the 2009 A4 is getting bigger and a few pounds heavier. The real story is the front axle moving forward, which I guess implies the engine doesn't hang over the axle as much. Sounds like the A5 layout. Does anyone know if the 09 A4 and the A5 share the same chassis? What does that mean for the next generation RS4 vs. the E92 M3?
Yes they both ride on Audi's new "Modular Longitudinal Platform", as will all future Audi A* passenger cars.

With the new RS6 rumored to be getting 600hp (some say as much as 620hp) from a turbocharged V10, its a good bet that the next RS4 will use a 500+hp turbocharged V8. That goes for the RS5 too. They are going to be screaming fast cars. Hopefully the inevitable extra weight that comes with them will not be too detremental too their handling.

What I cannot figure out about Audi's RS brand is why they insist on only making one car available at a time. When people try to compare an M Division car to an an Audi S product, the Audi crowd cries foul and points to the RS. And to some degree they have a point. But really, if these cars are only produced for 2 or 3 years at a time, and then must wait for Audi to cycle the RS process through all the rest of their lineup 'til they get an update, is that really a regular production car? Whatever the case, I just don't understand that philosophy. Why not just build the S branded cars to offer RS levels of performance so they have a consistent lineup of cars that can compete with the current offerings in each segment that they participate in? The RS cars could then be used for lighter weight track versions, somewhat like M's CSL.
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      08-30-2007, 11:32 AM   #32
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Am I the only one that doesnt view the RS Audi's as direct competitors to the standar M line?

For 17 years the M3 and S4 were direct competitors. Then Audi makes the RS4 and all of sudden the RS4 is now the competition and the S4 isnt? It appears to me that BMW's answer to Audis RS line is the CSL M3 and expected CSL M6.

In my view the direct competitor to the M3 from Audi is the S5 and S4. It always has been. How is this changed?

Jason
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      08-30-2007, 12:01 PM   #33
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Am I the only one that doesnt view the RS Audi's as direct competitors to the standar M line?

For 17 years the M3 and S4 were direct competitors. Then Audi makes the RS4 and all of sudden the RS4 is now the competition and the S4 isnt? It appears to me that BMW's answer to Audis RS line is the CSL M3 and expected CSL M6.

In my view the direct competitor to the M3 from Audi is the S5 and S4. It always has been. How is this changed?

Jason
Regardless of the past, the M3 and RS4 are direct competitors. I know this, because the RS4 is the Audi I was considering before I ordered a BMW. I guess I'm not alone in this - hence the constant comparisons in the motoring press. I don't see the problem here...
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      08-30-2007, 12:06 PM   #34
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Am I the only one that doesnt view the RS Audi's as direct competitors to the standar M line?

For 17 years the M3 and S4 were direct competitors. Then Audi makes the RS4 and all of sudden the RS4 is now the competition and the S4 isnt? It appears to me that BMW's answer to Audis RS line is the CSL M3 and expected CSL M6.

In my view the direct competitor to the M3 from Audi is the S5 and S4. It always has been. How is this changed?

Jason
Check out BMW's brochure for its sales force. It clearly identifies the RS4 as the Audi competitor. S4 is not mentioned.
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      08-30-2007, 12:53 PM   #35
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Whatever your views in this, its clear that if Audi does indeed keep with their "one RS at a time" philosophy, we are talking about waiting at least for the RS6 and RS5 to run their course before the next RS4. This means we may never even see a B8 RS4 - it could have to wait for the "B9" platform instead.

Now of course that RS5 is probably the more logical comparison to the E92 M3 anyway. The RS4 is a sedan, and since there will be an E90 M3, those two are more directly comparable. But still, even the RS5 will have to wait until after the RS6. That's means its probably a good 3 years away, if not more.

Bottom line, come MY2009, there will be no RS4/RS5 on the lot to compare to the M3. I guess that means, for the folks shopping for a new car, the M3 gets the nod. I mean you can't really consider purchasing a car that you can no longer find at your dealership.
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      08-30-2007, 01:34 PM   #36
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Actually, the availability of the next generation RS4 is one of the things I am trying to figure out. So, you are saying it won't be available before 2010? If that is the case, yes, that is a long way out. I plan to make a MY2009 purchase in September 2008. Unlike BMW, I personally do not see the B7 RS4--or the S4 for that matter--as an E92 M3 competitor; why would someone want to invest in a vehicle platform that has been around for, what, 6-7 years?
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      08-30-2007, 01:57 PM   #37
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Lucid no one knows for sure, but the current Audi way is to offer only one RS at a time. Simple deduction (RS6 imminent, RS5 heavily rumored) puts the next RS4 at about 5 years out. No way to be sure of that, but I would personally bet money its no closer than 3 years. And that would be if they decided to do the RS5 coupe/cab and RS4 sedan/avant all at once, which is a valid possibility given they are basically brothers just like E90/E91/E92/E93. But either way, it will definitely all have to wait until after the new RS6 runs its course.

Oh, and also there is the wild card RS R8 that might fall in there someplace too, and push the RS4/RS5 out further as well.
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      08-30-2007, 02:11 PM   #38
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Interesting is that they didn't launch the S4 simultaneously like they did with the S5. So S4 has to come even before the RS4...

Best regards, south
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      08-30-2007, 02:16 PM   #39
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Lucid no one knows for sure, but the current Audi way is to offer only one RS at a time. Simple deduction (RS6 imminent, RS5 heavily rumored) puts the next RS4 at about 5 years out. No way to be sure of that, but I would personally bet money its no closer than 3 years.
I understand this is speculative. Regardless, I don't know much about the history of Audi's production cycles, so this is all news to me. However you look at it, it sounds like the next generation RS4 is too far away for it to be an option for me.
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      08-30-2007, 02:20 PM   #40
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I understand this is speculative. Regardless, I don't know much about the history of Audi's production cycles, so this is all news to me. However you look at it, it sounds like the next generation RS4 is too far away for it to be an option for me.
+1

The new A4 was just announced, won't arrive here till next year. The S4 won't show up until at least next fall or Spring 09' so an RS4 will be a ways away....... For now the closest thing on the horizon is the RS5 which should arrive around the same time or a little later than the S4...

It's all "M" right now........

The S5 is tempting though......gorgeous body on her.
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      08-30-2007, 03:46 PM   #41
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Given the low volumes of RS cars produced, I wonder if the reason Audi doesn't do all the models at a time may be because they can't sell them in large enough quantities to justify the expense. BMW sold 90k e46 M3's and wants to sell 100k e92, how many RS4's have been sold? IIRC the US figure is 1k. Given the past dominance of the M brand Audi may think the market isn't there. If only the RS4 trolls were still around to give us some sales data...
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      08-30-2007, 03:51 PM   #42
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iirc the RS4 was intended to be a limited production car, so the sales targets were never supposed to be close to m3 numbers.
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      08-30-2007, 03:57 PM   #43
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iirc the RS4 was intended to be a limited production car, so the sales targets were never supposed to be close to m3 numbers.
I suspect if Audi thought they could build 100k RS models (4,5, and 6) and sell them at a profit they would. Right now they are just "halo" cars that make people excited about the brand but don't make much real money. The question isn't whether they are limited production cars, clearly they are. The question is, why, and why only one at a time?
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      08-30-2007, 04:17 PM   #44
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Given the low volumes of RS cars produced, I wonder if the reason Audi doesn't do all the models at a time may be because they can't sell them in large enough quantities to justify the expense.
If that is true (and lets assume it is for a moment) then the question is more basic. And that is, why can't Audi develop a lineup of vehicles that are both competitive with the comparable ones from M and AMG (and by that I mean both in performance, and in price) and profitable at the same time? What are they doing wrong? What are they missing?
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