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      02-02-2013, 06:41 AM   #45
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      02-02-2013, 08:03 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Nati Beastcat View Post
LOL I wouldn't say that at a traffic light sitting next to one...
If it came in a manual i'd test drive one. torque and small tires = fun!


True, the tires are a bit small, but I do have fun moving the back end around. New 507 looks good.
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      02-02-2013, 08:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
6.3L = 507 hp
4.0L = 414 hp

The engine is 50% greater than BMW S65 and still can't product impressive hp like BMW engine. Not for me.
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Originally Posted by nbennettksu View Post
Yep!

6.3 is about 80HP per L
4.0 is about 103HP per L
Fanboyish comments.
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Haha no. A "regular" C63 Black Series is $125k. You think this will be less?

To everyone saying that's how limited editions should be built. Let me ask you think: Who here is actually going to fork out $120k for an M3? How many times have I heard oh no, the M4 is going to be 80k plus, I'd rather get a 911 for that price.

That's what I thought. Can't have it both ways.
What makes you think it's going to be priced more than the BS? This seats below the BS.
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BMW is aggressively researching new types of seat stitching and new color combinations...watch out!
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      02-02-2013, 09:59 AM   #48
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I had a c63 before. I loved taking off but stayed away from driving over 100+. When you take this car on high speeds it doesn't feel secure. I had a e90 m3 right before that and that car stuck to the ground on high speeds. And now I'm back to M3. AMG is good when you want power and speed. BMW is real good when you want turning and really good with high speeds.
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      02-02-2013, 11:12 AM   #49
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I still think the transmission is a major flaw in this car.
The tires are a joke for a car with this much power. 235 fronts/255 rears.
It is still very nice.

I wish BMW made a proper "special edition". Whats up BMW?
For those of us (meaning nearly all of us) who think the standard sneakers on the C63 are undersized, Mercedes has provided for us - by thoughtfully making the rear tires go bald in about 4K miles.

Then you can put a set of Pilot Super Sports on the car, easily going to 275s out back, with 245 fronts. Traction problems not 100% solved, but WAY more manageable than before, and cornering improved as well.

I like(d) the PS2, but the PSS is a major leap forward. Hell, when my son got back from Afghanistan, retrieved his car from us, and drove back home to Texas, he sent me a two-word note, with a picture of a pair of black wavy lines on pavement stretching out for around 200 feet or so. The two words?

"Posi works."

Even with these shenanigans, the rears went over 10K miles, which is almost respectable. No issues with that "bulgy" sidewall look you can get when going oversize on tires with standard rims, either.

Bruce

PS - Posi was a Quaife, which I am impressed with. Also had one from the factory in my last track car (an SRT4), and it worked really well in that vehicle as well.
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      02-02-2013, 12:24 PM   #50
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My hat goes off to Mercedes on this one. Guys give them a round of applause because regardless of what you like or don't like, they did a "special edition" the right way. In regards to price there's no way this will be more than the bs and if it were well it would totally kill the 507 image. They created this car for the people who are amg fans who want more than the regular c63 but can't afford the bs version. Great marketing on their part and it makes sense since the car has probably attracted communities of people who really enjoy the car. I'm not expecting anything really from BMW because let's just count how many "editions" the e9x m3 has had in its lifetime. Right too many to remember or to care. Hell one was called just edition! And to whoever said build it and they will come is spot on. Just look at the performance exhaust. That late into the life cycle of the car with that type of price tag and there are still FORUM members who have it. Imagine all the non enthusiasts that have it on their car and miss that add on on the sticker price. Regardless of what BMW dishes out against the 507 it will sell. Lime rock is so stupid IMO but it sells and people love it when it offers nothing more than a normal m3. Last tid bit for the people complaining the hp/l ratio; just look at what bolt ons for the amg do versus what they do for the M
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      02-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #51
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What I have been told on pricing is that this car will effectively replace the C63 performance package option. So, if you had a fully loaded C63 with PP, this car will be similar in price. The BS is a completely different animal and much more expensive and exclusive.
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      02-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #52
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Gonna be quite the car!!!! M156 is an amazing engine and is very lightly stressed even at the 507HP rating, there is lots left in this engine!

Now if they ever put the 622HP M159 out of this years SLS AMG in the C63, I will seriously consider it, automatic or not!
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      02-02-2013, 02:49 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbennettksu
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
6.3L = 507 hp
4.0L = 414 hp

The engine is 50% greater than BMW S65 and still can't product impressive hp like BMW engine. Not for me.
Yep!

6.3 is about 80HP per L
4.0 is about 103HP per L
The SLS AMG Coupé Black Series accelerates to 100 km/h in 3.6 seconds. The top speed stands at 315 km/h.

The AMG 6.3-liter V8 engine generating a power output of 464 kW (631 hp) and 635 Newton meters of torque is a byword for thrilling driving dynamics, making the SLS AMG Coupé Black Series the most powerful AMG high-performance automobile with a combustion engine at present.

In the land of large V8 this is pretty badass. The NA motor is only a few ponies away from the supercharged monster ZR1 6.2L 638hp.
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      02-02-2013, 03:58 PM   #54
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Lets not forget, MBZ doesn't bring the same driving experience. BMW is a master. Before everyone gets excited just wait to see the cars that come out, everyone will be shutting up.
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      02-02-2013, 05:07 PM   #55
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Lets not forget, MBZ doesn't bring the same driving experience. BMW is a master. Before everyone gets excited just wait to see the cars that come out, everyone will be shutting up.
I bet that is a very educated and experienced opinion you have there and not at all based on just what you might have read in marketing material

What you said is rhetoric and not representative of MB's lineup of cars today. Does the M3 have a special feel? Absolutely. Better than a C63? Maybe (I might agree the M3 has a better driving feel myself but not a better overall experience when you factor sound and torque). But stating that MB doesn't bring a similar driving experience is false and full of marketing BS.

Tell me how a car with 50o+ hp, gobs of torque, amazing sound and very capable handling doesn't deliver a great driving experience ?

I'm not at all saying it is a superior car to the M3 but you are just wrong relative to your perception of the MB "driving experience." Secondly, many people would argue that BMW is falling down with the next gen 3 series relative to driving experience and that it is too soft. BMW only owns the "best driving experience" these day in its own marketing material.

Don't get me wrong, the E92 M3 is a special car with a special driving experience and I have said before I often miss its unique feel but MB is no slouch either.

Last edited by gthal; 02-02-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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      02-02-2013, 05:16 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nati Beastcat View Post
LOL I wouldn't say that at a traffic light sitting next to one...
If it came in a manual i'd test drive one. torque and small tires = fun!
The Black Series one at least comes with an LSD and wider fenders to fit bigger tires. But this "Edition".. you'll either be spinning the wheels with no traction or traction control killing the fun. Power is all good and fun but without control it's useless.

I would take the M3 any day on the track over this.
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      02-02-2013, 06:00 PM   #57
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You sound very experienced, thats great. My 25 years of experience in the field is marketing BS, dually noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
I bet that is a very educated and experienced opinion you have there and not at all based on just what you might have read in marketing material

What you said is rhetoric and not representative of MB's lineup of cars today. Does the M3 have a special feel? Absolutely. Better than a C63? Maybe (I might agree the M3 has a better driving feel myself but not a better overall experience when you factor sound and torque). But stating that MB doesn't bring a similar driving experience is false and full of marketing BS.

Tell me how a car with 50o+ hp, gobs of torque, amazing sound and very capable handling doesn't deliver a great driving experience ?

I'm not at all saying it is a superior car to the M3 but you are just wrong relative to your perception of the MB "driving experience." Secondly, many people would argue that BMW is falling down with the next gen 3 series relative to driving experience and that it is too soft. BMW only owns the "best driving experience" these day in its own marketing material.

Don't get me wrong, the E92 M3 is a special car with a special driving experience and I have said before I often miss its unique feel but MB is no slouch either.
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      02-02-2013, 09:05 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by e92involved View Post
You sound very experienced, thats great. My 25 years of experience in the field is marketing BS, dually noted.
OK... fair enough, I made that response to personal... I apologize. Let me re-state.

I have owned 2 E92 M3s and a 2012 C63 AMG coupe. Tracked all three cars fairly extensively and daily drove all 3 as well. Based on my specific experience with both cars, their driving experience is more similar than it is different. Therefore, your comments that "MB doesn't bring the same driving experience" and that "BMW is the master" do not reflect my personal experience with the two cars. The comment about the MB driving experience is similar to what people who haven't extensively driven a 2012+ MB might say based on what they have read on BMW forums rather than based on actual experience. It might have been true of MB of previous generations but not so much today. I can't comment on your experience specifically but if you had experienced a 2012 C63 coupe, I would be very surprised if you had this same view. You may still prefer the driving experience of the M3 but I would be surprised if your opinion of the MB driving experience wasn't very different.

Last edited by gthal; 02-02-2013 at 09:24 PM.
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      02-02-2013, 09:13 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The Black Series one at least comes with an LSD and wider fenders to fit bigger tires. But this "Edition".. you'll either be spinning the wheels with no traction or traction control killing the fun. Power is all good and fun but without control it's useless.

I would take the M3 any day on the track over this.
I would too but for different reasons. The C63 does come with an LSD with the performance package, the brakes are actually better than the M3's in my experience and no one keeps the 255's on long before they replace them with 245/275 tires. These issues aren't a big deal or an advantage for the M3 IMO. However, the M3's DCT or 6MT, better cooling management and couple of hundred pound weight advantage give it the advantage as a track car. The engine, although less powerful, also feels easier to control at the track although this could be a function of being able to dial in the throttle response to taste and the DCT transmission. Either way, the M3 is a more fun and satisfying car at the track whether or not it is actually faster time wise (i.e. the C63 coupe is faster on the 'Ring than the E92 M3 as an example... although the result might be different on other tracks).

Last edited by gthal; 02-02-2013 at 09:19 PM.
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      02-03-2013, 01:56 AM   #60
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BMW is a joke now. E92 will be my last ///M unfortunately.
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      02-03-2013, 09:32 AM   #61
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Quote:
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you're going to have to explain more. You picked the M3 simply b/c it looks better than the C63 coupe? If that's the case, I think I need to switch to the C63, I think the new refresh looks fantastic in sedan form.
I did not switch to the M3 because of looks alone (that's just plain stupid). My sedan looked great too.



I was able to participate in AMG's driving academy and was able to push the C63's among others to its potential and it disappointed me. The best way I can describe it is as the car got push more, it got softer and less exciting... I wanted more to go with the brute engine but there was nothing.

Don't get me wrong, I was Gung Ho with my C63 when I first got it. I adored it and even made videos of it but the excitement died fast. If you want a daily car that you can just whip around the streets or to drag, the C63 will more than do but as a dual use its not just the best for the track. But there is a lot of topic regarding this. To sum it up for me regardless of the numbers, The performance feel, adjustments and details why its an M3 gives us is just incomparable and that being a 2007 technology turning heads in 2013.

As far as exterior design, I did not even consider the C63 coupe, in my eyes it just does not appeal to me without even comparing to the E92. And I agree with you, in sedan form it looks great. I don't even want to mention looking like any other C class, but I did. But opinions like this are not to be further explained, everyone's taste is different.

The C63 in BS form is amazing. As far as this 507, it's probably more expensive than someone would like to pay for and that crazy extra HP, they just made this car even less balance to an already unbalance car. but give it to me and I'll take it in a heart beat but I won't pay for it. Just my opinion.
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      02-03-2013, 11:43 AM   #62
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Nice move by MB!
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      02-03-2013, 01:57 PM   #63
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That sedan looks great!

Can any C63 owners chime in on what tire upgrades can be made with the stock suspension setup?
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      02-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #64
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That sedan looks great!

Can any C63 owners chime in on what tire upgrades can be made with the stock suspension setup?
245 front and 275 rear is very common. Beyond 275 is doable but tough. Potenza RE-11 in a 275 rear is tons of grip.
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      02-03-2013, 04:08 PM   #65
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Build it and they will come. If BMW makes a performance edition M3 with actual notable performance upgrades I'm positive it will sell out.
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      02-03-2013, 04:36 PM   #66
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Build it and they will come. If BMW makes a performance edition M3 with actual notable performance upgrades I'm positive it will sell out.
Thats what they will do with next gen M3/M4. They gonna give it baby HP first two years and ppl will still buy it since its new and all. Then when sales slow down up the power to reel in customers, brilliant marketing.
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