BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-27-2013, 09:21 PM   #23
Technic
Lieutenant General
 
Technic's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 E92 M3, 2014 528i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ft Lauderdale, Florida

Posts: 10,837
iTrader: (16)

Garage List
2004 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
Vossens are heavy as sh^*
... we have a winner.
__________________
-2015 F30 320i, Imperial/Oyster, 8AT: August 2014 ED
-2012 E92 M3 Jerez Black/Rust Brown, M-DCT: September 2011 ED
-2008 E90 M3 Melbourne Red/Bamboo, 6MT: Gone
-2007 MK5 GTI United Grey/Grey, DSG: Gone
-2004 E46 M3 Carbon Black/Cinnamon, 6MT: Gone
Technic is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 08:32 AM   #24
RingMeister01
Lieutenant Colonel
 
RingMeister01's Avatar
 
Drives: Ducati 1199R
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New York

Posts: 1,879
iTrader: (0)

The hp loss is related to the increase in centrifugal force of the 20" wheels. The greater diameter of the wheel the further the weight of that wheel is away from it's center, requiring more force to spin or stop that object. In essence, a heavy 18" wheel would be easier to spin than a lighter 21" wheel. You dig?
RingMeister01 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 10:14 AM   #25
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

Posts: 3,319
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
The hp loss is related to the increase in centrifugal force of the 20" wheels. The greater diameter of the wheel the further the weight of that wheel is away from it's center, requiring more force to spin or stop that object. In essence, a heavy 18" wheel would be easier to spin than a lighter 21" wheel. You dig?
This is true. Our 20's are the same weight as the stock wheels and produce 20 whp less.
__________________
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 02:06 PM   #26
edwinm3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
edwinm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 MELBOURNE RED M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Doral

Posts: 1,701
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
The hp loss is related to the increase in centrifugal force of the 20" wheels. The greater diameter of the wheel the further the weight of that wheel is away from it's center, requiring more force to spin or stop that object. In essence, a heavy 18" wheel would be easier to spin than a lighter 21" wheel. You dig?
This is true. Our 20's are the same weight as the stock wheels and produce 20 whp less.
You guys wouldn't care about that Andrew, your car is a beast
__________________

Evolve Stage 2, GTS-DCT Software, Akrapovic Exhaust, AA Catless X Pipe, AA Geen Air filter, AA Pulley, Stoptech BBK, KW V3 Coilovers
"If it feels like it's on rails, you're not driving fast enough"
edwinm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 02:25 PM   #27
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

Posts: 3,319
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
You guys wouldn't care about that Andrew, your car is a beast
Tell that to the critics on m3post Every hp matters!
__________________
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 03:14 PM   #28
Chriskm3
Colonel
 
Chriskm3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,218
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
Vossens are heavy as sh^*
Weight difference between 20 inch vossen with tires and 18 volk with tires were 6 lbs per rear wheel
Chriskm3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 03:23 PM   #29
edwinm3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
edwinm3's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 MELBOURNE RED M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Doral

Posts: 1,701
iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
You guys wouldn't care about that Andrew, your car is a beast
Tell that to the critics on m3post Every hp matters!
I know lol
__________________

Evolve Stage 2, GTS-DCT Software, Akrapovic Exhaust, AA Catless X Pipe, AA Geen Air filter, AA Pulley, Stoptech BBK, KW V3 Coilovers
"If it feels like it's on rails, you're not driving fast enough"
edwinm3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 03:47 PM   #30
Vic311
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY

Posts: 1,469
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RingMeister01 View Post
The hp loss is related to the increase in centrifugal force of the 20" wheels. The greater diameter of the wheel the further the weight of that wheel is away from it's center, requiring more force to spin or stop that object. In essence, a heavy 18" wheel would be easier to spin than a lighter 21" wheel. You dig?
Part true but the heavier wheel will also have a bigger moment of inertia (harder to get it accelerating) so you will expend more power which translates to a dyno loss

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwinm3 View Post
Vossens are heavy as sh^*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
... we have a winner.
Heavy wheels are a tell-tale sign of cheap casting methods
Vic311 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 03:52 PM   #31
RingMeister01
Lieutenant Colonel
 
RingMeister01's Avatar
 
Drives: Ducati 1199R
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: New York

Posts: 1,879
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
This is true. Our 20's are the same weight as the stock wheels and produce 20 whp less.
This is the reason trackday guys and race teams will use the lightest and smallest wheels possible, that the brake system allow. Once upon a time, when I had my GT3, the serious guys would spend thousands and thousands on titanium wheel nuts by an italian company NCR and carbon fiber wheels by Oakley. Unsprung mass has the single most major effect on a cars performance in every way, accel, braking, turning, power loss..

Last edited by RingMeister01; 01-28-2013 at 03:58 PM.
RingMeister01 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 04:18 PM   #32
Mr.Metak2you
Brigadier General
 
Mr.Metak2you's Avatar
 
Drives: LEXUS LS(DailyDriver)
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Astral Projecting: ∞ 23.516 -122 02.625 0242.101 ĕv'rē-hwr'

Posts: 4,738
iTrader: (15)

Garage List
Want 6.5% increase torque? Stick with the 18's and go to a lower profile and lighter tire, you will see about the same results as switching out your LSD for a 4.1 at a fraction of the cost! (6MT)
__________________
Mr.Metak2you is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 04:50 PM   #33
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

Posts: 3,319
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you View Post
Want 6.5% increase torque? Stick with the 18's and go to a lower profile and lighter tire, you will see about the same results as switching out your LSD for a 4.1 at a fraction of the cost! (6MT)
This !
__________________
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 07:51 PM   #34
Daft
Captain
 
Daft's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 ZCP E92 M3 & 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

Posts: 875
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [4.85]
2003 BMW M3  [5.00]
For what it's worth I dynoed 520 whp on 20" HREs while I had the ESS VT2-575 (I'm on the VT2-600 now).
__________________

2011 M3 ZCP | ESS SUPERCHARGED | AKRAPOVIC EVOLUTION | 20" HRE P40 | BREMBO BBK | B&G SPRINGS
Daft is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 09:05 PM   #35
Dellort_M3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Toronto, ON

Posts: 429
iTrader: (1)

Which kit?
__________________
2011 Alpine White/Fox Red 6MT E92 M3 | Active Stage 2 w/Meth | KW Clubsport | OSS | Challenge Front Lip | Vorsteiner Type 2 Rear Diffuser and Bootlid | Brembo | Recaro | Akrapovic Slip-On | Challenge Race+ X-Pipe | Vossen CV3 | OEM 359M | TE37SL
Dellort_M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2013, 05:21 PM   #36
Chriskm3
Colonel
 
Chriskm3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,218
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
For what it's worth I dynoed 520 whp on 20" HREs while I had the ESS VT2-575 (I'm on the VT2-600 now).
Why upgrade from 575 to a 600 kit?
Chriskm3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2013, 05:30 PM   #37
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

Posts: 3,319
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daft View Post
For what it's worth I dynoed 520 whp on 20" HREs while I had the ESS VT2-575 (I'm on the VT2-600 now).
Have a baseline with the 20's ?
__________________
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2013, 10:42 PM   #38
HoodR$CH
Lieutenant
 
HoodR$CH's Avatar
 
Drives: AW E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 481
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Have a baseline with the 20's ?
Andrew, what 18" wheels will clear your new BBK kit for those of us who plan on buying it?
__________________


Brembo BBK|BPM Tune|HRE P43 SC|BMW Performance Seats|KWV3
HoodR$CH is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-01-2013, 11:54 PM   #39
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 435I M-sport
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Miami Fl

Posts: 3,319
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AASuperchargedE92 View Post
Andrew, what 18" wheels will clear your new BBK kit for those of us who plan on buying it?
Depends on the size of the brakes you choose.
__________________
Andrew@ActiveAutowerke is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-02-2013, 12:39 AM   #40
HoodR$CH
Lieutenant
 
HoodR$CH's Avatar
 
Drives: AW E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Minneapolis

Posts: 481
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke View Post
Depends on the size of the brakes you choose.
I was jumping the gun and assuming that the prototype brakes on Blitzkrieg would be released soon
__________________


Brembo BBK|BPM Tune|HRE P43 SC|BMW Performance Seats|KWV3
HoodR$CH is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-02-2013, 02:00 PM   #41
Superfly_M3
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 964
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriskm3 View Post
Why upgrade from 575 to a 600 kit?
From what I understand, the 575 and the 600 kit share the same injectors, only the tune would have to change. The 625+ kits have upgraded injectors.
Superfly_M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-02-2013, 02:49 PM   #42
Chriskm3
Colonel
 
Chriskm3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 2,218
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
From what I understand, the 575 and the 600 kit share the same injectors, only the tune would have to change. The 625+ kits have upgraded injectors.
Pullies and a tune fore sure.
Chriskm3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2013, 08:35 PM   #43
MilehighM3
Colonel
 
MilehighM3's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado Springs

Posts: 2,007
iTrader: (9)

No one has mentioned tire differences causing a reduction in dyno results here. Tires with additional siping in them cost power as well. Back when I had my Evo it dropped 15hp switching from Pilot Sports to Conti All Seasons. No changes in equipment, and same day dyno results. I swapped them just for fun, same wheel fitments.
Often times guys and girls swap wheels but also run different tires, which will vary the results as well.
MilehighM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-04-2013, 08:56 PM   #44
CanAutM3
Brigadier General
 
CanAutM3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 (2015 M4 on order)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

Posts: 3,491
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [0.00]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw135er View Post
No one has mentioned tire differences causing a reduction in dyno results here. Tires with additional siping in them cost power as well. Back when I had my Evo it dropped 15hp switching from Pilot Sports to Conti All Seasons. No changes in equipment, and same day dyno results. I swapped them just for fun, same wheel fitments.
Often times guys and girls swap wheels but also run different tires, which will vary the results as well.
Very good point
CanAutM3 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST