Why did you leave the M3?

[KennyPowers]

Originally Posted by Mmmm3333

250wtq????????? Creating a new unit of measure to make your point?

Really?

250 ft lbs of torque measured at the wheels.....

This is a very common way to write that.

I was at a dyno day with m3's including my own, all of which made between 230-260 ft lbs of torque to the wheels. Or wtq as I wrote in shorthand..

W - wheel
Tq - torque

Similar to whp

W - wheel
Hp - horsepower

Can't believe I have to explain this. But hey, how dare I or anyone else say anything that isn't positive about the m3!

[MaxL]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

250wtq is inadequate for a 60k sports car that weighs 3700 lbs.

Sorry, but it's middle school physics fail... (Most of the world has physics in middle school) Here are the correct wtq numbers for M3: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157633

They would be different for each gear. Also, torque is a pointless measure by itself, without revs. For example, if you put a 1/2 reductor on an M3 engine, it will work like a 595 lb/ft torque engine with 4200 RPM redline, but it's still the same engine!

Back to the topic, I am leaving M3 only because now I can afford to replace it with 2 P-cars... Yes, it's far from perfect, and is not a one car to rule them all, but it's damn brilliant if it takes 2 more expensive cars to fully replace it. And I either ridden in or test drove almost all alternatives under $200K.

[Trevor .:R]

Originally Posted by Giggs

left it for an R8. Not as many for sale as M3s so its taking me a while to find the right one. And the search continues..

If you get an R8 please get the V10... no point in getting the V8 but giggs either way im looking forward to the next project.

[Mmmm3333]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Really?

250 ft lbs of torque measured at the wheels.....

This is a very common way to write that.

I was at a dyno day with m3's including my own, all of which made between 230-260 ft lbs of torque to the wheels. Or wtq as I wrote in shorthand..

W - wheel
Tq - torque

Similar to whp

W - wheel
Hp - horsepower

Can't believe I have to explain this. But hey, how dare I or anyone else say anything that isn't positive about the m3!

WOW!!!! Pls tell me that you are kidding with your explanation.....really????? You do realize that the "torque at the wheels" as you put it, depends on the gearing, right?

Wtq is a common way to write torque....again, pls tell me that you are kidding. I've never seen that term in all my years of engineering, racing, or even forum discussions. You might want to google "wtq" and see what comes up.

Listen, I'm cool w your attempt to mock me but you should at least do some homework first....like 8 grade homework.

[KennyPowers]

Originally Posted by Mmmm3333

WOW!!!! Pls tell me that you are kidding with your explanation.....really????? You do realize that the "torque at the wheels" as you put it, depends on the gearing, right?

Wtq is a common way to write torque....again, pls tell me that you are kidding. I've never seen that term in all my years of engineering, racing, or even forum discussions. You might want to google "wtq" and see what comes up.

Listen, I'm cool w your attempt to mock me but you should at least do some homework first....like 8 grade homework.

Ever been to a dyno? It measures torque and hp at the wheels. Typically all cars dyno in the gear closest to 1:1 which iirc is 5th gear in the m3.

On a dyno, an m3 typically measures 250 ft lbs at the wheels in 4th or 5th gear.

Compared to similar cars in the segment, the measured tq on the m3 is the lowest.

Again, not sure why this is complicated. There are thousands of threads in this forum with similar dyno results and terms.

Anyway, done arguing semantics. M3 is a good car, but it does have a low amount of torque.

Additionally, I'm sure you realize that the first sarcastic personal attack was made by you in your first response to me.

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

Ever been to a dyno? It measures torque and hp at the wheels. Typically all cars dyno in the gear closest to 1:1 which iirc is 5th gear in the m3...

Perhaps a nit, but chassis dynos don't measure torque. They directly measure power thru acceleration of a known mass (with a known rotational inertia) at known speeds.

Proof point: If you don't hook up a sensor to a plug wire to get rpm, you'll still get a power curve, but no torque curve. Getting rpm means you can then calculate the torque curve.

Running the rollers in differing gears will get you similar results, because greater acceleration of the rollers in, say, first gear is offset by that happening at lower speeds - in a proportional way.

Bruce

[KennyPowers]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Perhaps a nit, but chassis dynos don't measure torque. They directly measure power thru acceleration of a known mass (with a known rotational inertia) at known speeds.

Proof point: If you don't hook up a sensor to a plug wire to get rpm, you'll still get a power curve, but no torque curve. Getting rpm means you can then calculate the torque curve.

Running the rollers in differing gears will get you similar results, because greater acceleration of the rollers in, say, first gear is offset by that happening at lower speeds - in a proportional way.

Bruce

Fair enough, and good info.

Regardless, for the purposes of a discussion of relative tq between cars, i accept the calculated tq values from a dyno to be adequate

[Giggs]

Originally Posted by Trevor .:R

If you get an R8 please get the V10... no point in getting the V8 but giggs either way im looking forward to the next project.

Its not always about the power my friend

[M3Denver]

Originally Posted by Giggs

Its not always about the power my friend

It's not always about power.... But the noise the v10 makes is bliss!!!!!!!!

[kmarei]

Had this 2012 m3 after selling my MR 2008 m3


Got this


Why?
Because I realized I had more fun driving my e30, than I do in the e92
Ideally I'd have an e30 m3 with a s65

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by saildoc

Torque!!! All over the place.
Also better interior feel.
Better looking car I think

it looks like a c300 with quads...

[HighandDry]

I love the V8 in the M3.

Everyone here is talking about the lack of torque, but that's not the formula for this car. The lack of torque is made up by the higher redline.

If you don't like that kind of car, then obviously move onto another type- like a Vette.

I think where the M could shine is if it lost some weight.

For instance the M weighs around 3600 lb, torque 295, and HP 414.
The Ferrari 430 (a similar low torque, high HP car) weighs around 3200 lb, torque 343, and HP 483.

So, if the M was the F430 weight (assuming about 10 lbs lost = 1 HP), it would put out 40 more HP for a total of 454 HP. That would make the M much quicker.

Personally, I love the relatively low torque/high HP cars like the GT3, F430, etc. There's nothing like making a car sing in those high revs. Probably one of the reasons I found the Turbo so boring.

[Dre01SS]

I must say... after looking, debating, and figuring out which one would be the best fit - I made my decision and found the right deal to seal it.

I found it rather ironic that given my 2 choices, I ended up going to a BMW dealership to pick her up...

[Giggs]

Originally Posted by Dre01SS

I must say... after looking, debating, and figuring out which one would be the best fit - I made my decision and found the right deal to seal it.

I found it rather ironic that given my 2 choices, I ended up going to a BMW dealership to pick her up...

[Nordstat]

Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast.

Perhaps a nit, but chassis dynos don't measure torque. They directly measure power thru acceleration of a known mass (with a known rotational inertia) at known speeds.

Proof point: If you don't hook up a sensor to a plug wire to get rpm, you'll still get a power curve, but no torque curve. Getting rpm means you can then calculate the torque curve.

Running the rollers in differing gears will get you similar results, because greater acceleration of the rollers in, say, first gear is offset by that happening at lower speeds - in a proportional way.

Bruce

^ YES!!!

[Giggs]

It arrived! Heres why i left

http://youtu.be/hZnzyFe8w50

[HighandDry]

Very nice! Congrats!

Your'e going to need a more practical car for daily driving, so you might as well get your M3 back

[Giggs]

Originally Posted by HighandDry

Very nice! Congrats!

Your'e going to need a more practical car for daily driving, so you might as well get your M3 back

Thanks! I have a daily, unfortunately its not an M3. Im M3 all the way at heart tho, still cruisin with my M boys

[M3takesNYC]

Guessing this is a v8? If it is I don't see the "upgrade" as the performance between this and the m3 is non-existent or neglible. Now if it was for simply looks than I totally get it. Or if its a V-10 than forget I said anything!

Also why would he need another daily driver? I don't get those comments as why would you not drive an R8 daily?

If I had a Zonda or something crazy than sure but even a ferrari I would daily drive. Why not?

[Giggs]

Originally Posted by M3takesNYC

Guessing this is a v8? If it is I don't see the "upgrade" as the performance between this and the m3 is non-existent or neglible. Now if it was for simply looks than I totally get it. Or if its a V-10 than forget I said anything!

Also why would he need another daily driver? I don't get those comments as why would you not drive an R8 daily?

If I had a Zonda or something crazy than sure but even a ferrari I would daily drive. Why not?

Yes its a v8. Im not a 0-60 guy, nor do i care about racing stoplight to stoplight. From a performance perspective it definitely feels faster than the M3, even tho i know its not. If you've driven one you know what I mean. The AWD allows for no tire spin off the line which i like more bc i dont have to worry about tire spin like I did on the RWD M. The r8 also feels way more planted and hugs the road so nicely. I came from a supercharged M3 and from a driveability standpoint, i much prefer the R8. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Regarding looks, this car has gotten more attention in the last 2 days than my M3 got in a year (ive been driving it a lot since Friday). The r8 draws camera phones everywhere, and Ive gotten the same amount of attention from women as from men, young and old, while driving or parked. Its spurred multiple coversations at gas stations and other stores, and when people inside stores see it pull up they come out and stare at the car. I actually didnt expect to get that much attention and have almost been hit twice while driving already from people trying to catch up and take pictures of the car. Its crazy! I like that it puts a smile on people's faces.

[W///]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

If they really wanted to keep the "gem" they could've saved a lot of money by just adding direct injection. Exactly what gm is doing with there ls3....

It's not coincidence that I don't want any of my cars to be DI. Thus why the next car I'll add to the M3 will be a 997.1 Turbo. At this point, I have no interest in dealing with carbon build up.

Originally Posted by kmarei

Had this 2012 m3 after selling my MR 2008 m3


Got this


Why?
Because I realized I had more fun driving my e30, than I do in the e92
Ideally I'd have an e30 m3 with a s65

An E30 with an S65 completely defeats the purpose of having an E30 M3 in the first place. It's all about balance.

Having said that, she's beautiful. I need to get my E30 back on the road. It's just such a classic look.

Originally Posted by Giggs

Yes its a v8. Im not a 0-60 guy, nor do i care about racing stoplight to stoplight. From a performance perspective it definitely feels faster than the M3, even tho i know its not. If you've driven one you know what I mean. The AWD allows for no tire spin off the line which i like more bc i dont have to worry about tire spin like I did on the RWD M. The r8 also feels way more planted and hugs the road so nicely. I came from a supercharged M3 and from a driveability standpoint, i much prefer the R8. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Regarding looks, this car has gotten more attention in the last 2 days than my M3 got in a year (ive been driving it a lot since Friday). The r8 draws camera phones everywhere, and Ive gotten the same amount of attention from women as from men, young and old, while driving or parked. Its spurred multiple coversations at gas stations and other stores, and when people inside stores see it pull up they come out and stare at the car. I actually didnt expect to get that much attention and have almost been hit twice while driving already from people trying to catch up and take pictures of the car. Its crazy! I like that it puts a smile on people's faces.

Are you worried about carbon build up at all? I love the way these things look, nothing like it out there. Congrats!

[badazzm]

Originally Posted by Giggs

Yes its a v8. Im not a 0-60 guy, nor do i care about racing stoplight to stoplight. From a performance perspective it definitely feels faster than the M3, even tho i know its not. If you've driven one you know what I mean. The AWD allows for no tire spin off the line which i like more bc i dont have to worry about tire spin like I did on the RWD M. The r8 also feels way more planted and hugs the road so nicely. I came from a supercharged M3 and from a driveability standpoint, i much prefer the R8. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion though.

Regarding looks, this car has gotten more attention in the last 2 days than my M3 got in a year (ive been driving it a lot since Friday). The r8 draws camera phones everywhere, and Ive gotten the same amount of attention from women as from men, young and old, while driving or parked. Its spurred multiple coversations at gas stations and other stores, and when people inside stores see it pull up they come out and stare at the car. I actually didnt expect to get that much attention and have almost been hit twice while driving already from people trying to catch up and take pictures of the car. Its crazy! I like that it puts a smile on people's faces.

Yep. This car is chick magnet compared to the M3 which is a dude magnet. Dad just got one and I drove it to Starbucks to meet up with some friends. I was 20 mins late because I was answering questions from a group of 5 girls sitting outside Starbucks that saw me rolling in with this beast! Too bad I have a gf that I don't plan to cheat on! Lol.