BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
EclipsisNA
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-25-2013, 05:00 PM   #23
aussiem3
Major
 
aussiem3's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E92 M3/'11 F25 X3 3.0D
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

Posts: 1,300
iTrader: (0)

There are sceptics than believers out there. It is a cynical world ... human nature. "because I don't have it I don't believe it, attitude. Appreciate it as information and when one decides to head this path, one is well informed. That's what forums are all about to me ... share information, experience and help each other out. Not ridicule people without trying out something. Unbelievable!
__________________

2007 E92 6MT - Silverstone II with /// Performance Exhaust with ACM Test Pipes and BPM Sport Stage II Dev-Tune
2011 F25 X3 3.0d
aussiem3 is offline   Australia
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 06:09 PM   #24
SYZ
Lieutenant
 
SYZ's Avatar
 
Drives: :O
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scottsdale

Posts: 459
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
hey PhoenixRising, perhaps we could take our cars out and put them head to head? I also have a fully loaded E93 but its bone stock right now. I'm also in PHoenix. I'm curious just how much quicker the BPM tune makes the car on the street.
SYZ is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 07:29 PM   #25
PhoenixRising
Important text here
 
Drives: 2013 M3 Conv
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYZ View Post
hey PhoenixRising, perhaps we could take our cars out and put them head to head? I also have a fully loaded E93 but its bone stock right now. I'm also in PHoenix. I'm curious just how much quicker the BPM tune makes the car on the street.
Not condoning speeding, of course, but I'll PM you.
__________________

2009 AM V8 Vantage Conv - Berwick Bronze, Quicksilver Exhaust
2013 M3 Conv - (RIP) thanks to uninsured a-hole
2004 Porsche 911 C4S Conv
PhoenixRising is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 07:58 PM   #26
Trevor .:R
Captain
 
Drives: 11 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Thousand Oaks/Camarillo/Westlake

Posts: 669
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
11 M3  [5.00]
BPM is great. Mike is great. =D
__________________
Trevor .:R is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 08:07 PM   #27
KennyPowers
Brigadier General
 
Drives: .....
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gulf Coast

Posts: 3,388
iTrader: (13)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3an View Post
wait a min. A porsche turbo didn't impress you but your M3 now does.. hmmmm
Seriously

A 997tt is a monster.

Glad u like the tune though, mods are fun
__________________
2009 AW E92 M3 DCT

M359 ZCP wheels w/ AD08R / OEM Competition Package Suspension Retrofit / LCI Taillights
KennyPowers is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 08:46 AM   #28
IMG
VT3
 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: The Couch

Posts: 6,863
iTrader: (5)

Good stuff
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
IMG is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 09:14 AM   #29
dead ringer
09 M3 E90
 
dead ringer's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 M3 E90 - DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix

Posts: 128
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixRising View Post
Not condoning speeding, of course, but I'll PM you.
I can meet up with you 2 also, I have ACM test pipes and ESS tune...
__________________
E90///M3 : ESS ECU & Shift tune w/ full ESS exhaust | KW V3's | LUX AE | 19" TE37's | Mode Carbon V1 lip | JB's CF trunk spoiler

Scion xB: modded up and is the DD
Ford Flex Ecoboost: ECU Tuned w/ intake (wifes)
dead ringer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 09:34 AM   #30
UBER ///M3
///M FLIGHT
 
UBER ///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 LEMANS BLUE E92 ZCP M3
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ezelsdorf, Germany

Posts: 708
iTrader: (0)

Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead ringer View Post
I can meet up with you 2 also, I have ACM test pipes and ESS tune...
dead ringer let me know how it goes bc i also have the same set up..excited to hear what the outcome will be
__________________
ESS V2 Tune, ACM Test Pipes, AA Green Filter,Custom painted Recaro Pole Positions, Akrapovic slip on, KW Clubsports, APEX ARC8s/Hankook RS3s, Hamann carbon fiber hood, ONEighty Headlight mod (selfmade), GTS replica lip, Blacked out/paint matched emblems, black aluminum extended paddles and pedals

Last edited by UBER ///M3; 01-26-2013 at 09:49 AM.
UBER ///M3 is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 11:24 AM   #31
PhoenixRising
Important text here
 
Drives: 2013 M3 Conv
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
Seriously

A 997tt is a monster.

Glad u like the tune though, mods are fun
I agree. The 996TT had 400hp. The 997TT gets 500. That's quite a leap. I'm sure it would be amazing. We are probably gonna pay off our 996 and then look into the 991 when we trade. : )

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead ringer View Post
I can meet up with you 2 also, I have ACM test pipes and ESS tune...
Sounds good!
__________________

2009 AM V8 Vantage Conv - Berwick Bronze, Quicksilver Exhaust
2013 M3 Conv - (RIP) thanks to uninsured a-hole
2004 Porsche 911 C4S Conv
PhoenixRising is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 12:33 PM   #32
Transfer
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Transfer's Avatar
 
Drives: SQ5, X1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 1,600
iTrader: (0)

Subscribed for real world comparisons.
I'm BPM tuned as well and I think it's great.
Transfer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #33
SYZ
Lieutenant
 
SYZ's Avatar
 
Drives: :O
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scottsdale

Posts: 459
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by UBER ///M3 View Post
dead ringer let me know how it goes bc i also have the same set up..excited to hear what the outcome will be
He'll have to throw a couple fat chicks in the back to even the playing field... the E93 is about 400lbs heavier
SYZ is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 01:05 PM   #34
LarThaL
Colonel
 
LarThaL's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

Posts: 2,375
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpirelli View Post
+1

Sounds like someone justifying spending $1K+ for a measly 15 whp
Well, for comparison, the ESS 535 kit costs $8500. So you get 115hp for $8500, or $73 per hp. $1000 for 15hp equals $67 per hp, so actually you are getting more bang for your buck than you are with a supercharger.

Of course, the counterpoint is that $1000 for 15hp will give you no performance gain, while $8500 for 115hp will give you a substantial one. So while from a power standpoint, the SC is a no better value, dollar for dollar, from a real performance standpoint, it is a far better value.

There is, of course, the whole issue of a change in the subjective driving experience and feel of the car, but we shouldn't confuse this with a real power or performance gain. That said, I am not discounting the subjective experience whatsoever. It is, after all, the subjective experience that led me to choose an M3 over a car like the GTR.
__________________
Precision tool: 2011 BMW ///M3
Sledgehammer: 2014 Audi S6

LarThaL is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 01:10 PM   #35
UBER ///M3
///M FLIGHT
 
UBER ///M3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 LEMANS BLUE E92 ZCP M3
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Ezelsdorf, Germany

Posts: 708
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SYZ View Post
He'll have to throw a couple fat chicks in the back to even the playing field... the E93 is about 400lbs heavier
haha yeah thats the truth!!
__________________
ESS V2 Tune, ACM Test Pipes, AA Green Filter,Custom painted Recaro Pole Positions, Akrapovic slip on, KW Clubsports, APEX ARC8s/Hankook RS3s, Hamann carbon fiber hood, ONEighty Headlight mod (selfmade), GTS replica lip, Blacked out/paint matched emblems, black aluminum extended paddles and pedals
UBER ///M3 is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      01-26-2013, 01:26 PM   #36
Superfly_M3
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 948
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Well, for comparison, the ESS 535 kit costs $8500. So you get 115hp for $8500, or $73 per hp. $1000 for 15hp equals $67 per hp, so actually you are getting more bang for your buck than you are with a supercharger.

Of course, the counterpoint is that $1000 for 15hp will give you no performance gain, while $8500 for 115hp will give you a substantial one. So while from a power standpoint, the SC is a no better value, dollar for dollar, from a real performance standpoint, it is a far better value.

There is, of course, the whole issue of a change in the subjective driving experience and feel of the car, but we shouldn't confuse this with a real power or performance gain. That said, I am not discounting the subjective experience whatsoever. It is, after all, the subjective experience that led me to choose an M3 over a car like the GTR.
ESS doesn't make the 535 anymore, they are now 550 kits. I'm not sure, but I think the price is the same. Looking at it from a standpoint of adding hp/dollar is a bad approach. Here's what I mean. Lets say, someone spends $700 on an intake, yields 8whp. Then he spends $1,000 on tune and yields 10whp. If that person than decides to go SC. Then all this money is out the window. Making the SC more expensive in the long run. If a tune is where the person would like to end his quest for power, then yes, $1,000 for 10-15whp can be justified especially given the fact that Mike's tune makes the car so much better to drive on a daily basis - as per other people. However, remember that power is addictive, and some people might not stop there. Many VT1 kit owners have upgraded to VT2,3.

It all comes down to the consumer. If all they want is 15hp increase than the tune option is for them. ECU tunes are also perceived as less risk in terms of warranty and blowing up the motor compared to SCed cars. Some people are just not comfortable giving up that safety net, and there is nothing wrong with that. Although given the track record of ESS (the most popular choice for blowers) I don't see how something can go wrong. Perhaps a better approach would be for potential buyers to get a ride in a SC car compared to a tuned car. This however would be hard to find.

Last edited by Superfly_M3; 01-26-2013 at 01:32 PM.
Superfly_M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-28-2013, 08:51 PM   #37
Mike Benvo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Mike Benvo's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3 / 400whp Turbo 7
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,310
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
ESS doesn't make the 535 anymore, they are now 550 kits. I'm not sure, but I think the price is the same. Looking at it from a standpoint of adding hp/dollar is a bad approach. Here's what I mean. Lets say, someone spends $700 on an intake, yields 8whp. Then he spends $1,000 on tune and yields 10whp. If that person than decides to go SC. Then all this money is out the window. Making the SC more expensive in the long run. If a tune is where the person would like to end his quest for power, then yes, $1,000 for 10-15whp can be justified especially given the fact that Mike's tune makes the car so much better to drive on a daily basis - as per other people. However, remember that power is addictive, and some people might not stop there. Many VT1 kit owners have upgraded to VT2,3.

It all comes down to the consumer. If all they want is 15hp increase than the tune option is for them. ECU tunes are also perceived as less risk in terms of warranty and blowing up the motor compared to SCed cars. Some people are just not comfortable giving up that safety net, and there is nothing wrong with that. Although given the track record of ESS (the most popular choice for blowers) I don't see how something can go wrong. Perhaps a better approach would be for potential buyers to get a ride in a SC car compared to a tuned car. This however would be hard to find.
This is an interesting point ($ per hp comparison), thanks for sharing. I've thought about a blower and it's a tough one for me. I'm just really loving the N/A aspect of this engine and don't want to induce any extra wear on the motor, so I decided against it. Although they are absolutely beast with one.

Thanks everyone for your comments. Looking forward to the outcome of the races (as long as they are fair) - an E93 with tune vs an E92 with tune and test pipes isn't a fair battle! And please do it on the track vs the street, much safer and more controlled environment!
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----

Last edited by Mike Benvo; 01-28-2013 at 10:58 PM.
Mike Benvo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-30-2013, 09:12 PM   #38
PhoenixRising
Important text here
 
Drives: 2013 M3 Conv
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
After thinking it over I have to agree with Mike. I'll be seeing both gents tomorrow (thursday) and will discuss the terms. I don't mind getting to cruising speeds that I normally travel on the freeway, but I imagine 2 M3's pulling onto the freeway alone is enough to raise suspicion - let alone racing hard to 130+mph to see who's faster. We will take it easy and keep it very civil.

Thanks, Mike, for being a great voice of reason.
__________________

2009 AM V8 Vantage Conv - Berwick Bronze, Quicksilver Exhaust
2013 M3 Conv - (RIP) thanks to uninsured a-hole
2004 Porsche 911 C4S Conv
PhoenixRising is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2013, 01:27 PM   #39
SYZ
Lieutenant
 
SYZ's Avatar
 
Drives: :O
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Scottsdale

Posts: 459
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
SYZ is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2013, 03:28 PM   #40
PhoenixRising
Important text here
 
Drives: 2013 M3 Conv
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Met with 'dead ringer' today. Really nice guy. The test pipes sound KILLER. Definitely more of a raspy note when revving nears the redline. We ended up hopping on the freeway and accelerating to a comfortable speed. I noticed that we kept pretty close with each other! DR did pull away under hard acceleration and I think the addition of the test pipe to the tune definitely gives an advantage. I'll be meeting up with SYZ later this evening as well.

I like meeting the members and seeing what options we have out there. Real world application FTW!
__________________

2009 AM V8 Vantage Conv - Berwick Bronze, Quicksilver Exhaust
2013 M3 Conv - (RIP) thanks to uninsured a-hole
2004 Porsche 911 C4S Conv
PhoenixRising is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2013, 06:47 PM   #41
Leonardo629
Major
 
Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Walnut, CA

Posts: 1,120
iTrader: (9)

I don't doubt Mike is a master at BMW DME software and coding and tuning, but it's still amusing to me that when it comes to stuff like MS stage 2 intakes and RPi ram air scoops, people grill and grill the vendor for dyno charts and proof. And most of the time dyno charts are provided for those mods, but met with a lot of one liner replies like "hood was opened", "BMW simply couldn't possibly leave 15hp on the table"..etc...etc....where's the logic in that?

I may need to do some heavy diggin', but I have not seen many before and after dynos of the many performance tunes available to us.

I'm still on the fence as far as which tune I should go with for my '13, but how do I "return" the software if I'm not satisfied with my purchase?
Leonardo629 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2013, 07:38 PM   #42
PhoenixRising
Important text here
 
Drives: 2013 M3 Conv
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post
I don't doubt Mike is a master at BMW DME software and coding and tuning, but it's still amusing to me that when it comes to stuff like MS stage 2 intakes and RPi ram air scoops, people grill and grill the vendor for dyno charts and proof. And most of the time dyno charts are provided for those mods, but met with a lot of one liner replies like "hood was opened", "BMW simply couldn't possibly leave 15hp on the table"..etc...etc....where's the logic in that?

I may need to do some heavy diggin', but I have not seen many before and after dynos of the many performance tunes available to us.

I'm still on the fence as far as which tune I should go with for my '13, but how do I "return" the software if I'm not satisfied with my purchase?
I do see your point. The tune is one of those things you can't pop the hood open and touch or see. It's behind the curtain so it is either proven by dyno or driver perspective. Since I didn't dyno my car prior to the tune, it comes down to how I feel about the performance and that's it.

I've been around muscle cars all my life - my brother and dad both raced quarter mile in monster cars usually tubbed out. I never had any interest in US muscle. I always wanted the Conquest TSi or 300ZX TT. But I trust my butt dyno. Nobody else has to as no one else is making my car payment.

But don't get me wrong - I understand your point. I read every forum I could and it came down to 2 companies that I liked the most. I chose Mike @ BPM and couldn't be happier. Dead Ringer chose ESS for his tune and I think he's very happy as well. We are still going to meet up to check out daily driver tendencies between the two.

I say, trust your gut. And I hope you get what you want out of your decision!
__________________

2009 AM V8 Vantage Conv - Berwick Bronze, Quicksilver Exhaust
2013 M3 Conv - (RIP) thanks to uninsured a-hole
2004 Porsche 911 C4S Conv
PhoenixRising is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2013, 09:52 PM   #43
dead ringer
09 M3 E90
 
dead ringer's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 M3 E90 - DCT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Phoenix

Posts: 128
iTrader: (0)

Thanks for meeting up today. Great meeting a fellow enthusiast! As he mentioned as the RPM's climbed in each gear I was pulling ahead. FYI I have an E90 (sedan), not sure what the weight difference is
__________________
E90///M3 : ESS ECU & Shift tune w/ full ESS exhaust | KW V3's | LUX AE | 19" TE37's | Mode Carbon V1 lip | JB's CF trunk spoiler

Scion xB: modded up and is the DD
Ford Flex Ecoboost: ECU Tuned w/ intake (wifes)
dead ringer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-31-2013, 09:59 PM   #44
Mike Benvo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Mike Benvo's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E90 M3 / 400whp Turbo 7
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,310
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
Quote:
Originally Posted by dead ringer View Post
Thanks for meeting up today. Great meeting a fellow enthusiast! As he mentioned as the RPM's climbed in each gear I was pulling ahead. FYI I have an E90 (sedan), not sure what the weight difference is
I hope you would or your car might be broken

You have a 507 lb weight advantage and the test pipes alone are good for 15-25 whp / and wtq. Gigantic difference even from E93 to E92/E90 stock for stock. And same goes for the same car stock vs the same car with test pipes.

Here's a video of a stock E92 vs E93 both DKG. Now imagine the same E92 with test pipes..



Phoenix, glad you're happy. Let me know when you're ready for test pipes and Stage II - or maybe a diet
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----

Last edited by Mike Benvo; 01-31-2013 at 10:05 PM.
Mike Benvo is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:43 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST