The Ultimate Driving is Fading Away

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé

I agree and am not arguing with you. I'm merely looking at it from a marketing stand point. It's the old race on Sunday, sell on Monday strategy is all I'm saying. Maybe with an ad like this, the masses might more readily accept turbocharging and quit saying it goes against the grain of an ///M car.

I definitely agree about the marketing of it. Something to link to the past I guess. The whole racing on Sunday scenario will never work again just because the bridge between racing and production is just getting further and further away with the restrictions being placed on the mfgs.

[i001947]

Originally Posted by Superfly_M3

I agree that BMW is pulling the excitement out of their line ups. Look at the comparisson between the E60 and its successor. Before i bought my M the sales guy tried to push a 550 to me. After a very short drive, I knew that the car was not for me. Too numb, to heavy, and squeeked under cornering loads inside. The power was there (4.4TT) but it didn't excite. I'm glad I got my M, and will likely keep it for longer than other cars. This car has the best of all worlds IMO

This was exactly my experiences at all of the BMW dealers I test drove cars from. And this is what I'm saying. BMW was trying to convince me that bigger, lighter turbo charging was the way of the future and I need to accept it. Thank GOD I did not listen either.

[i001947]

Originally Posted by rennis

I know what you're trying to say here, but saying that a modern Porsche isn't a driver's car is pretty silly. If you ask me, the 911 is one of the last pure drivers cars. At it's heart, it's the same car it always has been, just better.

:shrug:

Not sure where you got that I'm saying "a modern Porsche isn't a driver's car". I simply stated "Pound for pound, dollar for dollar it represented the best buy for the money, excitement factor, drivability etc. The only cars that did better were the Porsche Boxter S and 911 S but for a lot more money."

A M3 costs ($75K-$85K) compared to a Porsche 911 S which costs ($125K) a lot more. If I had $125K I would definitedly buy a Porsche 911 S which is the better overall sport car between the two.

[RingMeister01]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I definitely agree about the marketing of it. Something to link to the past I guess. The whole racing on Sunday scenario will never work again just because the bridge between racing and production is just getting further and further away with the restrictions being placed on the mfgs.

Very true. Manufacturers involved in racing have seperate politics and rule constraints to deal within every racing series which makes it extremely difficult to make any association between racing and production models. It is awesome to see BMW in DTM and endurance racing.

[W///]

Originally Posted by i001947

Not quite the point I was making. It's not about the car, it's about BMW directions / strategy that I'm questioning. Why risk destroying the Ultimate Driving Machine in every line? I don't get the logic.

Did you know that Audi is planning to use 17 BILLION dollars within the next couple of years to try to become the biggest luxury car mfg in the world? Think about that, 17 billion. If BMW doesn't try to expand its line, what do you think will happen?

And FYI, as much as I love Porsche, let's cut the BS about heritage and all that shenanigans. You realize that they sell diesel Cayenne's right? Would that stop me from buying a 911? No.

My point is this: If BMW comes out with let's say the M2, which is the best thing since sliced bread (the M135i has been a success in my eyes), then go for it. Who cares of they make the X1 through X6? Who cares if the new M4 coupe is not named an M3? All these things are so irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

[Kasé Zomé]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I definitely agree about the marketing of it. Something to link to the past I guess. The whole racing on Sunday scenario will never work again just because the bridge between racing and production is just getting further and further away with the restrictions being placed on the mfgs.

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

Very true. Manufacturers involved in racing have seperate politics and rule constraints to deal within every racing series which makes it extremely difficult to make any association between racing and production models. It is awesome to see BMW in DTM and endurance racing.

Agreed. Just like how the S1000RR is quite far removed from the street bike and the DTM M3 doesn't even use the M3 chassis. But I believe it's still an effective marketing strategy for 90% of the target audience as they're not hardcore enthusiasts as some of us folks on this forum are!

[i001947]

Originally Posted by W///

Did you know that Audi is planning to use 17 BILLION dollars within the next couple of years to try to become the biggest luxury car mfg in the world? Think about that, 17 billion. If BMW doesn't try to expand its line, what do you think will happen?

I get it. Don't like it, but I get it.

[mdosu]

BMW was a never "race on sundays, sell on Mondays mentality". You're confusing this with Ferrari

[13 NF]

I think this is a really good thread!

I have had shed loads of BMW, X5,x6m,6,5s,7s over recent years.

I have come to the conclusion the 5 drives like the 6 which is like the 7 and quite uninvolving, my experience of the X5 and X6 (not X6M) was good, but its needs its replacement thats coming.

I find my self thinking, what next! I have tried the M5 and found it just not relevent to UK roads.The M5 only feels great at such silly speeds that their is no point, what happened to the experience the noise the feel!

My M3 is good, not perfect,but thats fine as its got something that just makes you forgive the down sides, such as low speed parking and tank range.

I want now to change, but the BMW range is just lacking that' ultimate driving machine' edge.

And the problem is that all the other manufacturers have not really upped their game, BMW have just somehow softened!

So I find myself driving a BI Turbo A7 DIESEL and thinking This is great!

Its a sad day

The 3 series is a real cracker, so maybe good things will be coming in the next four years!

[HeartMD]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

Munit is that you?

LOL, the same thought crossed my mind...

[peeti]

Having just come from a 135i convertible (with Dinan II - which actually means something there) I can safely say I understand where OP is coming from. The 1 series is definitely a throw-back to the e30/e36 days. It just plain old felt good. You could toss them around and you felt as if a part of the car like my old e36 m3. Ironically, the 135 was faster, stopped better and had about the same amount of room than my old m3.

That all having been said, my new e90 is a whole different car. Sure it's an e39 M5 in size, but it's great. It's not quite tossable, but damn near close. It's a true joy to drive. And as a bonus, I can take one more person along and half of their basement (in trunk) for a ride.

We can't have all that space, that much engine, all these new regulations and still be small. Until bmw adds option ZTRD (tardis interior) it is what it is.

[Nati Beastcat]

looks like "the ultimate driving machine" to me

http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=795418

[MKE_M3]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I think the other thing that people are forgetting is that it's not about power or heritage or things like that. Manufacturers have to find ways to meet the stringent emission laws around the world where their cars will be sold. Smaller motors, diesels, turbos, lightweight materials, etc. all go into the process of making this happen.

Not just emission laws, but also safety regulations and crash test ratings. Much of the increase in car weight is due to safety features, stiffer frames, etc.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by Red_Baron

Munit is that you?

+1

[Tomislav]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

I think the other thing that people are forgetting is that it's not about power or heritage or things like that. Manufacturers have to find ways to meet the stringent emission laws around the world where their cars will be sold. Smaller motors, diesels, turbos, lightweight materials, etc. all go into the process of making this happen.

This is the answer, not the companies, the greenies are dictating all of this and the car companies have to do something about it.

No greenies means we'd still have the v8 or bigger

[AshyLarryMP]

The new car is going to have 3 turbos right? I bet the acceleration will feel pretty nice. Torque in first and then high hp It'll probably run 12.4. It will be far easier to mod too. It will be a better tuners car.