BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
rolloface
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-25-2013, 09:12 AM   #1
i001947
Captain
 
i001947's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: US

Posts: 676
iTrader: (0)

The Ultimate Driving is Fading Away

Like all of the BMW cars, they've gotten bigger, lighter and turbo charged to the gills. Ok, not a fan but, BMW is still one of few interesting cars to drive for the money when you compare the other makes and brands like Porsche, Audi and Mercedes.

But, I find myself wondering whether BMW really knows what they're doing with this strategy of bigger, lighter and turbo chargers. I welcome the M4, M2 and any other version that BMW can come up with. And I'm not going to get into a rant about prices, options and BMW’s greed for M badgging (at least not now). At the end of the day, whatever BMW you drive the question that remains is; does the "Ultimate Driving Machine" that you own excites you?

The 4 previous BMWs that I had the pure pleasure and GOD Blessings to own (320i, 325i, 525i and 740i sport) all dam near killed me with pure driving excitement. And when I was looking for my 5th BMW, I was looking for another car that would give me the goose bumps and the occasional wet pants. Unfortunatedly, I discovered the "Ultimate Driving Machine" was fading away and BMW was the cause.

I test drove every one of the 3, 5, 6 series (except the 650i and all M's) and was totally disappointed. Nice cars for long trips but no goose bumps or monster under the hood. When I finally got to the M's, I disovered that the M5 was the best large car, monster under the hood, plus great long trip choice of them all. But at $100K plus, it wasn't what I was looking for. And when I finally got to chance to test drive a 2013 M3, th rest was history. Pound for pound, dollar for dollar it represented the best buy for the money, excitement factor, drivability etc. The only cars that did better were the Porsche Boxter S and 911 S but for a lot more money.

So, what's the point? I just purchased a 2013 M3. This is the last year the M3 with the current specs will be produced. And in my opinion represents the last "Ultimate Driving Machine" in BMW line up under $100K. My next "Ultimate Driving Machine" may just be a Porsche if BMW srews this up.
i001947 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 09:21 AM   #2
nbennettksu
Major
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Fort Lauderdale

Posts: 1,050
iTrader: (0)

Sorry that you feel that way?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
Caddy ATS . . . finally, a decent rental car option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kchu221 View Post
the wheels make me mad...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhabs View Post
It's one thing for some buffoon to put an M badge on something that doesn't deserve it...it's another for a multi-billion dollar corporation to do the exact same thing and keep a straight face.
nbennettksu is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 09:22 AM   #3
Uiop
Private First Class
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Boston

Posts: 156
iTrader: (0)

After the new F80 won't almost every car be turbocharged in their lineup?
Uiop is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 09:32 AM   #4
M3 Esq
Lieutenant Colonel
 
M3 Esq's Avatar
 
Drives: Pumpkin Orange M3
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

Posts: 1,927
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Here we go.
M3 Esq is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 09:33 AM   #5
LucWerkz
Banned
 
Drives: e70 X5 4.8i (Temporarily)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DC/VA/MD/PA

Posts: 1,241
iTrader: (1)

Munit is that you?
LucWerkz is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 09:59 AM   #6
VMcV3y
Captain
 
VMcV3y's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 M3 Cabriolet
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Houston, Texas

Posts: 927
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Let's summarize: you just purchased a brand new car, it's exactly what you wanted, and you're on a negative spin about how the next M3 (which none of us have actually seen or driven or have definitive specs about) might not meet your needs, and you're trashing the entire line of BMW vehicles.

Your glass of optimism does not runneth over...
__________________
2012 ///M3 Cabriolet; Le Mans Blue Metallic.

. . . .Munich . . . >. . . .Houston

When one wants a cabriolet, is there really any other choice than an M3? No. No, there's not.
VMcV3y is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:08 AM   #7
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,103
iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
I think the other thing that people are forgetting is that it's not about power or heritage or things like that. Manufacturers have to find ways to meet the stringent emission laws around the world where their cars will be sold. Smaller motors, diesels, turbos, lightweight materials, etc. all go into the process of making this happen.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:16 AM   #8
i001947
Captain
 
i001947's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: US

Posts: 676
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VMcV3y View Post
Let's summarize: you just purchased a brand new car, it's exactly what you wanted, and you're on a negative spin about how the next M3 (which none of us have actually seen or driven or have definitive specs about) might not meet your needs, and you're trashing the entire line of BMW vehicles.

Your glass of optimism does not runneth over...
Not quite the point I was making. It's not about the car, it's about BMW directions / strategy that I'm questioning. Why risk destroying the Ultimate Driving Machine in every line? I don't get the logic.
i001947 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:16 AM   #9
i001947
Captain
 
i001947's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: US

Posts: 676
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
I think the other thing that people are forgetting is that it's not about power or heritage or things like that. Manufacturers have to find ways to meet the stringent emission laws around the world where their cars will be sold. Smaller motors, diesels, turbos, lightweight materials, etc. all go into the process of making this happen.
Good point!
i001947 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:32 AM   #10
kscarrol
Colonel
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Orleans, LA

Posts: 2,216
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by i001947 View Post
Not quite the point I was making. It's not about the car, it's about BMW directions / strategy that I'm questioning. Why risk destroying the Ultimate Driving Machine in every line? I don't get the logic.
The logic is... it is a business. BMW is in the business of selling cars. If you look at global sales of the entire BMW line-up, sales are setting records. What does that tell us? That BMW are building the cars that the market wants. That may not jive with what you or I want but there's not much we can do about other than voting with our wallets. And based on sales figures, we are being out voted!

Combine that with what The Tech highlighted and we have our answer.
__________________
Current: 2011 Space Grey E90 M3, DCT, Comp. Pkg., Conv. Pkg., everything but Cold Weather Pkg!
Gone: 2008 550, Space Grey, Sports Package, Sport Auto Transmission.
Sold: 2004 545i (U.S.), Steptronic, Silver Gray.
kscarrol is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:34 AM   #11
Transfer
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Transfer's Avatar
 
Drives: SQ5, X1
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 1,676
iTrader: (0)

Congrats on the new M. Simple solution that many of us plan to follow... Keep it it for years and years. Now go drive somewhere. You have 1200 miles to scrub away.
Transfer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #12
sycd
Lieutenant
 
sycd's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 M3 ZCP DCT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA

Posts: 409
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Sad but true. On the other hand I really like what is happening with the FR-S, I hope that car is highly successful and starts a new trend toward more fun compact RWD cars. Funny that while BMW is talking about FWD cars, puts turbos everywhere, generates fake engine noise, makes their cars more disconnected and bigger, etc, Toyota releases a lightweight fun RWD "back to the basics" drivers car.
__________________
2013 X5 xDrive50i | Carbon Black | M Sport + M Perf, 333M Wheels
Sold: 2012 E92 M3 | Jet Black, Fox Red/Black | DCT, ZCP
sycd is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:41 AM   #13
Superfly_M3
Captain
 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 964
iTrader: (0)

I agree that BMW is pulling the excitement out of their line ups. Look at the comparisson between the E60 and its successor. Before i bought my M the sales guy tried to push a 550 to me. After a very short drive, I knew that the car was not for me. Too numb, to heavy, and squeeked under cornering loads inside. The power was there (4.4TT) but it didn't excite. I'm glad I got my M, and will likely keep it for longer than other cars. This car has the best of all worlds IMO
Superfly_M3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 10:53 AM   #14
burakkose
Second Lieutenant
 
burakkose's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Istanbul

Posts: 223
iTrader: (0)

__________________
burakkose is offline   Turkey
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 11:13 AM   #15
visvim_m3
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto

Posts: 40
iTrader: (0)

Turbo is the way to go for high power and low fuel consumption, high profit margins on volume cars and lots of servicing money. We should boycott turbo Ms and hopefully BMW will notice and use the money made from regular series cars to produce NA engines again to attract the M customer.
visvim_m3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 11:43 AM   #16
zamboni
I want to drive a Zamboni
 
zamboni's Avatar
 
Drives: 13 E93 M3 14 F30 335i
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Monte Sereno, CA

Posts: 3,171
iTrader: (5)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by i001947 View Post
Not quite the point I was making. It's not about the car, it's about BMW directions / strategy that I'm questioning. Why risk destroying the Ultimate Driving Machine in every line? I don't get the logic.
BMW is not the only MFG will move to this direction but MB & Audi as well, in order to reduce the emision got to bring down engine size to meet the spec.The only complain I had was electric steering Porsche had it right and BMW still has a long way to improve.
__________________
14 F30 335i Melbourne Red
13 E93 M3 Melbourne Red
12 E93 Space Gray ( Retired BMW buy back )
2006 E90 ( sold ) 09 E82 Space Gray ( sold )
My next vehicle would be a Zamboni
zamboni is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #17
Z K
Colonel
 
Z K's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 2,112
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zamboni View Post
BMW is not the only MFG will move to this direction but MB & Audi as well, in order to reduce the emision got to bring down engine size to meet the spec.The only complain I had was electric steering Porsche had it right and BMW still has a long way to improve.
Yes, the Porsche electric steering still has a lot of feedback. BMW's electric steering is pretty dead feeling.

I also feel like the new BMWs are lacking some excitement. They are just everyday cars and don't really offer anything special.
Z K is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 12:19 PM   #18
pseto
Major General
 
pseto's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 E92 ZCP, M Roadster, X5 4.4
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbia, MD

Posts: 6,471
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by visvim_m3 View Post
Turbo is the way to go for high power and low fuel consumption, high profit margins on volume cars and lots of servicing money. We should boycott turbo Ms and hopefully BMW will notice and use the money made from regular series cars to produce NA engines again to attract the M customer.
really? i'm assuming this is sarcasim lol. i don't get the whole boycotting thing, especially from the enthusiast crowd who make up very little of the overall BMW market

BMW like any other corporation will chase what the market demands. i've heard so many enthusiasts throughout the years say 'I won't buy another BMW because....' and guess what, they still didn't build what you want because there's nothing to support the demand. BMW will eventually offer zero manual transmissions in cars b/c not many people buy them (and there's plenty of data to prove this).
__________________
Paul Seto - BMW Car Club of America
National Capital Chapter (MD/DC/NoVA), President & Social Chairman

Become a BMW CCA member & reference my member# 339225
Join our NCC Facebook Page
pseto is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 12:24 PM   #19
rennis
Lieutenant
 
rennis's Avatar
 
Drives: E70 5.0 & B5 S4
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kirkland

Posts: 514
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by i001947 View Post
Like all of the BMW cars, they've gotten bigger, lighter and turbo charged to the gills. Ok, not a fan but, BMW is still one of few interesting cars to drive for the money when you compare the other makes and brands like Porsche, Audi and Mercedes.
I know what you're trying to say here, but saying that a modern Porsche isn't a driver's car is pretty silly. If you ask me, the 911 is one of the last pure drivers cars. At it's heart, it's the same car it always has been, just better.

:shrug:
rennis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 12:57 PM   #20
Kasé Zomé
Captain
 
Kasé Zomé's Avatar
 
Drives: faster than my demons can fly
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

Posts: 787
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
I think the other thing that people are forgetting is that it's not about power or heritage or things like that.
Speaking of heritage, weren't the older ///M based race cars using turbocharged versions of the road going motors? I'm no BMW historian but I thought I read that somewhere. BMW could easily make that connection on the marketing front if what I'm thinking is true.
__________________
1998 M3/4/5
2011 E90 6MT ZCP Slicktop (SOLD)
Kasé Zomé is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 01:01 PM   #21
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,103
iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
Speaking of heritage, weren't the older ///M based race cars using turbocharged versions of the road going motors? I'm no BMW historian but I thought I read that somewhere. BMW could easily make that connection on the marketing front if what I'm thinking is true.
That has zero to do with the issues the company faces at present. A turbo can be added to any motor, especially when it comes to racing. This is no way would translate to a production vehicle. Just the fact that it has a turbo doesn't mean it could be used as a road going vehicle just because the newest production vehicles have turbos.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-25-2013, 01:08 PM   #22
Kasé Zomé
Captain
 
Kasé Zomé's Avatar
 
Drives: faster than my demons can fly
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

Posts: 787
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
That has zero to do with the issues the company faces at present. A turbo can be added to any motor, especially when it comes to racing. This is no way would translate to a production vehicle. Just the fact that it has a turbo doesn't mean it could be used as a road going vehicle just because the newest production vehicles have turbos.
I agree and am not arguing with you. I'm merely looking at it from a marketing stand point. It's the old race on Sunday, sell on Monday strategy is all I'm saying. Maybe with an ad like this, the masses might more readily accept turbocharging and quit saying it goes against the grain of an ///M car. You know, coming around a full circle and all that good stuff...
__________________
1998 M3/4/5
2011 E90 6MT ZCP Slicktop (SOLD)
Kasé Zomé is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST