BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-13-2013, 06:25 AM   #1
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,645
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

Pilot Super Sports compared to NT-01s

I'm thinking of switching my track tires to NT-01s vs. PSS. I like PSS, they worked well for me last year without any issues. I wanted some people to chime in on any differences going from PSS to NT-01s. They are about the same price and it would seem PSS tires could last longer, therefore, if the performance difference isn't widely different, then I might just as well stay with PSS tires for longevity.

Brief pros and cons would be great and your personal recommendation.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 10:03 AM   #2
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
82
Rep
5,622
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
NT01s - far superior dry grip. Work well in the rain as long as you can see the horizontal tread. Dangerous in standing water. Can handle the heat better. Need to get heat in them.

PSS - I don't think they are any better in the rain on the track than the NT01s, can go through puddles. Might last a little longer but are more prone to chunking.

If you're OK with switching tires, go NT01s. If not, I'd go with the PSS.
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 03:14 PM   #3
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,645
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
NT01s - far superior dry grip. Work well in the rain as long as you can see the horizontal tread. Dangerous in standing water. Can handle the heat better. Need to get heat in them.

PSS - I don't think they are any better in the rain on the track than the NT01s, can go through puddles. Might last a little longer but are more prone to chunking.

If you're OK with switching tires, go NT01s. If not, I'd go with the PSS.
Very helpful, thank you. I'm ok switching tires and intend to when I'm on the track. I am planning for APEX EC-7s (18x10s) square and NT-01 275/35/18.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 05:02 PM   #4
CanAutM3
Brigadier General
CanAutM3's Avatar
Canada
67
Rep
4,335
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4 DCT
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M4  [4.75]
2006 Audi S4  [0.00]
I use PSS as my DD tires and wet track tires. NT01s are my dry track tires. So here's my opinion:

The NT01 is a great track tire with pretty decent grip, reasonable wear, good at the limit predictability and excellent heat cycling resistance. It is not the grippiest tire out there, but it is a reasonable compromise. On the dry, it is 1 to 2 seconds faster on a 2 minute circuit compared to the PSS. However, in my opinion, the NT01 really suck in the wet, standing water or not. Especially if it is relatively cold. In this case, I am 1-2 seconds faster with the PSS in the wet compared to the NT01.

The PSS is reasonable as a dry track tire, with decent grip and predictability. However, when you push it hard and put heat into them, they degrade extremely fast. They almost seem to melt away. If you are getting reasonably fast as a driver, you will find that they do not last long on a dry track. I find them excellent in the rain though. When they were new, I could follow 4WD drive cars (STi, Evo, R8) in heavy rain without too much struggle.
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 05:11 PM   #5
Brainofjjj
Astronaut
Bahamas
14
Rep
638
Posts

 
Drives: car
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dallas - Preston Hollow

iTrader: (5)

Garage List
2012 BMW X5d  [0.00]
2003 BMW M3  [0.00]
1970 240Z  [0.00]
I run PSSs on the street only. I think RS3s are the best bang for your buck tire. Can't see running a premium street tire on the track. Just run Michelin Cups.
__________________
Current: SBM X5d, Jet Black E46 M3, Black FJ Cruiser, 1970 240Z
Former: '11 MCB E90 M3, 2011 Lotus Exige, 2003 350Z, 2002 WRX, 1996 Supra turbo, 1984 320i, 1987 E28 M5
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 05:18 PM   #6
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,645
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I use PSS as my DD tires and wet track tires. NT01s are my dry track tires. So here's my opinion:

The NT01 is a great track tire with pretty decent grip, reasonable wear, good at the limit predictability and excellent heat cycling resistance. It is not the grippiest tire out there, but it is a reasonable compromise. On the dry, it is 1 to 2 seconds faster on a 2 minute circuit compared to the PSS. However, in my opinion, the NT01 really suck in the wet, standing water or not. Especially if it is relatively cold. In this case, I am 1-2 seconds faster with the PSS in the wet compared to the NT01.

The PSS is reasonable as a dry track tire, with decent grip and predictability. However, when you push it hard and put heat into them, they degrade extremely fast. They almost seem to melt away. If you are getting reasonably fast as a driver, you will find that they do not last long on a dry track. I find them excellent in the rain though. When they were new, I could follow 4WD drive cars (STi, Evo, R8) in heavy rain without too much struggle.
Thanks, and to your point, last season I was at a point where I got chunking off the tire and the tires started to wear quicker towards the end of the season. Looks like you're confirming in dry conditions NT-01s would wear better and last longer performance wise than PSS. When I go to the track I'll have street tires that would be my rain / wet tires. I would then only use NT-01s for dry conditions.

My goal last season was to drive until my abilities would be close to overwhelming my street tires, and I was wary of jumping the gun to R-Comps too quickly, but now I think it's time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainofjjj View Post
I run PSSs on the street only. I think RS3s are the best bang for your buck tire. Can't see running a premium street tire on the track. Just run Michelin Cups.
Would love to run Michelin Cups actually, but too pricey for me. I think it will be NT-01s for me this season.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 05:33 PM   #7
Sleeper519
Captain
Sleeper519's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
768
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E92 M3 DCT
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I use PSS as my DD tires and wet track tires. NT01s are my dry track tires. So here's my opinion:

The NT01 is a great track tire with pretty decent grip, reasonable wear, good at the limit predictability and excellent heat cycling resistance. It is not the grippiest tire out there, but it is a reasonable compromise. On the dry, it is 1 to 2 seconds faster on a 2 minute circuit compared to the PSS. However, in my opinion, the NT01 really suck in the wet, standing water or not. Especially if it is relatively cold. In this case, I am 1-2 seconds faster with the PSS in the wet compared to the NT01.

The PSS is reasonable as a dry track tire, with decent grip and predictability. However, when you push it hard and put heat into them, they degrade extremely fast. They almost seem to melt away. If you are getting reasonably fast as a driver, you will find that they do not last long on a dry track. I find them excellent in the rain though. When they were new, I could follow 4WD drive cars (STi, Evo, R8) in heavy rain without too much struggle.
^^ This. totally agree.

Get the NT-01s, you'll love em. I have PSS for my DD and use them for wet track tires but I've stopped pushing the car real hard in the rain, just don't need to do that anymore.

But with the Nittos I dropped 2 seconds immediately, and with the 275 square setup you get much more neutral handling and the ability to rotate the car = loads of fun.
__________________

2008 M3 Coupe / DCT // StopTech BBK 380/355 / Pagid RS29 / Motul / Apex Arc-8 / BFG R1S / Ground Control / MS filter / Performance spoiler / BPM tune // Road Atlanta 1:39.80 / VIR Full 2:10.87 / Barber 1:42.20
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 09:26 PM   #8
bigjae1976
That's what she said...
bigjae1976's Avatar
82
Rep
5,622
Posts

 
Drives: 11 E90 M3 Individual
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Milwaukee, WI

iTrader: (12)

Garage List
2004 BMW M3  [4.50]
2011 BMW E90 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW 328i  [5.00]
Question, do your NT01s make a loud and annoying humming sound when you get above 70-80 mph?
__________________


Sponsored by Momentum BMW #593...We Bleed BMW BLUE!
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 09:34 PM   #9
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
172
Rep
12,924
Posts

 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

i think nt01s are a good choice. just got the same ec7 nt01 combo you are looking at but havent run them yet. pss get greasy as others have said once you push them hard in the dry. ive been on ad08s for 3 years and am now making that move to rcomps. should be fun.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 11:33 PM   #10
paradocs98
Major
paradocs98's Avatar
United_States
31
Rep
1,347
Posts

 
Drives: 2014 991 Carrera S
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
I use PSS as my DD tires and wet track tires. NT01s are my dry track tires. So here's my opinion:

The NT01 is a great track tire with pretty decent grip, reasonable wear, good at the limit predictability and excellent heat cycling resistance. It is not the grippiest tire out there, but it is a reasonable compromise. On the dry, it is 1 to 2 seconds faster on a 2 minute circuit compared to the PSS. However, in my opinion, the NT01 really suck in the wet, standing water or not. Especially if it is relatively cold. In this case, I am 1-2 seconds faster with the PSS in the wet compared to the NT01.

The PSS is reasonable as a dry track tire, with decent grip and predictability. However, when you push it hard and put heat into them, they degrade extremely fast. They almost seem to melt away. If you are getting reasonably fast as a driver, you will find that they do not last long on a dry track. I find them excellent in the rain though. When they were new, I could follow 4WD drive cars (STi, Evo, R8) in heavy rain without too much struggle.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleeper519 View Post
^^ This. totally agree.

Get the NT-01s, you'll love em. I have PSS for my DD and use them for wet track tires but I've stopped pushing the car real hard in the rain, just don't need to do that anymore.

But with the Nittos I dropped 2 seconds immediately, and with the 275 square setup you get much more neutral handling and the ability to rotate the car = loads of fun.
Ditto ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Question, do your NT01s make a loud and annoying humming sound when you get above 70-80 mph?
Yep. It's a very characteristic sound, and one of many reasons why you wouldn't want to run NT01s on the street/highway as your daily drivers. It's such a distinct sound that I identified it from a track video on here a few months back. Another member posted a track video, but didn't include any info about his setup in the message or his signature, and I heard that distinct sound I've listened to for two seasons now. I replied, "Are you running NT01s?" "Yes. How did you know?"
__________________
IB E90 M3 ZCP returned to BMW FS
Appreciate 0
      01-13-2013, 11:51 PM   #11
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
172
Rep
12,924
Posts

 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paradocs98 View Post




Yep. It's a very characteristic sound, and one of many reasons why you wouldn't want to run NT01s on the street/highway as your daily drivers. It's such a distinct sound that I identified it from a track video on here a few months back. Another member posted a track video, but didn't include any info about his setup in the message or his signature, and I heard that distinct sound I've listened to for two seasons now. I replied, "Are you running NT01s?" "Yes. How did you know?"
funny i remember that and was suprised you picked that up.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 10:52 AM   #12
apecush
Lieutenant
6
Rep
448
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (2)

have you guys been finding that a 275 NT01 is quite a bit wider than a comparable 275 tire? I've heard rumors of this, but have never really confirmed it.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 11:22 AM   #13
ortho281
Captain
ortho281's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
681
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

The NT01's are significantly wider than most tires. Here is a comparison btw the RS3's and NT01's, both in 275 widths.
Attached Images
 
__________________

Akra Evo / MS stage 2 / MS UDP / VF Tune / KW Clubsports Coilovers / Vorshlag plates / TMS Delrin Bushings / ST 380/355 BBK / ST SR34 pads / Apex Arc-8 / Nitto NT01 / APR splitter and wing / Cantrell Motorsports half cage / Recaro Profi / Schroth Profi II-6 / BMW Performance Alcantera wheel / Aim Solo DL
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 12:33 PM   #14
apecush
Lieutenant
6
Rep
448
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (2)

great, thanks for that.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 01:00 PM   #15
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,645
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

that explains a lot. Also wondered how the wheel gaps was so "filled" with 275 / 35 series.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 02:53 PM   #16
DallasBoosted
Captain
DallasBoosted's Avatar
11
Rep
864
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
275/35-18 PSS vs. 275/40-17 NT01

Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 05:33 PM   #17
apecush
Lieutenant
6
Rep
448
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Edmonton

iTrader: (2)

care to host that somewhere other than imgur?
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 07:04 PM   #18
turbo8765
Lieutenant
6
Rep
563
Posts

 
Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281 View Post
The NT01's are significantly wider than most tires. Here is a comparison btw the RS3's and NT01's, both in 275 widths.
In the pic it looks like the RS3 is mounted and the NT01 is not. Are both tires mounted on a wheel and, if so, is the wheel width the same?

Otherwise the comparison is invalid.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 08:47 PM   #19
DallasBoosted
Captain
DallasBoosted's Avatar
11
Rep
864
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by apecush View Post
care to host that somewhere other than imgur?
..
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 08:51 PM   #20
chili cheese
Captain
chili cheese's Avatar
17
Rep
960
Posts

 
Drives: '13 E92 M3, Santorini Blue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Southern CA

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SROC5 View Post
Very helpful, thank you. I'm ok switching tires and intend to when I'm on the track. I am planning for APEX EC-7s (18x10s) square and NT-01 275/35/18.
Do it! I have the ARC-8s with the NT01 275/35/18 square and love it. I'll probably be getting the EC-7s soon.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 11:32 PM   #21
ortho281
Captain
ortho281's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
681
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Katy, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo8765 View Post
In the pic it looks like the RS3 is mounted and the NT01 is not. Are both tires mounted on a wheel and, if so, is the wheel width the same?

Otherwise the comparison is invalid.
Your observation is correct! In the photo the NT01 is unmounted. However, after mounting on the same rims 18x10, the results were the same. On identical rims the RS3's appear stretched while the NT01 appear wider than the rim. Also fender gaps were reduced significantly after switching from RS3's to NT01's. It is also now a struggle to fit NT01 tires 4 across in back seat, where as the RS3's had room to spare.
__________________

Akra Evo / MS stage 2 / MS UDP / VF Tune / KW Clubsports Coilovers / Vorshlag plates / TMS Delrin Bushings / ST 380/355 BBK / ST SR34 pads / Apex Arc-8 / Nitto NT01 / APR splitter and wing / Cantrell Motorsports half cage / Recaro Profi / Schroth Profi II-6 / BMW Performance Alcantera wheel / Aim Solo DL
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 11:57 PM   #22
DallasBoosted
Captain
DallasBoosted's Avatar
11
Rep
864
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E92 335i
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dallas

iTrader: (3)

Garage List
2008 BMW 335i  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ortho281 View Post
Your observation is correct! In the photo the NT01 is unmounted. However, after mounting on the same rims 18x10, the results were the same. On identical rims the RS3's appear stretched while the NT01 appear wider than the rim. Also fender gaps were reduced significantly after switching from RS3's to NT01's. It is also now a struggle to fit NT01 tires 4 across in back seat, where as the RS3's had room to spare.
Stack them like this
Attached Images
 
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST