BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
European Auto Source
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-22-2013, 12:35 AM   #1
Munit
Banned
8
Rep
220
Posts

 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

benvo vs ess vs evolve battle

So with the ability of the home install of the tunes, I am quite surprised with so much interest, nobody has bought all 3 and did head to head comparisons. Subjectively would be nice but moreso on the dyno. I am thinking about doing this simply out of curiosity. I have ESS and happy. HOwever only would do this if it truly would be an accurate comparisons.

If you take a 2012 (mine) m3 with latest OE software, install the software again to clear adaptations and did 3-4 pulls in normal weather etc. Take peak power.


Leave car on dyno-install the next tune, 4 pulls or however many until power stopped changing.

Cool down

Next tune

And so forth. Would this be a pretty darn accurate way to compare? Than overlay the 4 graphs on each other. Would this put a lot of people to rest?
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 12:39 AM   #2
Superfly_M3
Captain
18
Rep
964
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Toronto

iTrader: (0)

would be cool and time consuming. I bet this would tie up the dyno for at least 5 hours.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 12:45 AM   #3
THE-FN-MAN
Captain
11
Rep
864
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3 x2
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: the wood

iTrader: (0)

Do it man!!
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 01:15 AM   #4
Vic311
Banned
United_States
17
Rep
1,469
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

The only way that comparison would be fair is if you repeated the runs each time with the exact same
  • Oil Temp
  • Air Intake Temp
  • Coolant Temp
  • Exhaust Gas Temp
  • Ambient Temp
  • Ambient Humidity
  • etc
  • etc
  • etc
....see where this is going?
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 06:16 AM   #5
Leonardo629
Major
United_States
13
Rep
1,206
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Walnut, CA

iTrader: (9)

I can tell you right now this battle will never happen
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 06:43 AM   #6
M3SQRD
Colonel
M3SQRD's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
2,480
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3s,R56 CooperS,F22 228iX
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: EC

iTrader: (2)

You've left out a few tunes - AA, Epic, etc...

IMO, this won't happen because no singe peron is going to purchase all of the tunes on the market. Even with only the three tunes listed by the OP, you're talking about > ~$3k in tunes (assuming stage 2/HFC/no cat tunes); however, if all tunes were included then you're talking about >>>> $3k.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 07:25 AM   #7
IMG
M.POWER
IMG's Avatar
104
Rep
7,065
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Why ?
If it happens,it will be a none ending war.
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 07:38 AM   #8
M3SQRD
Colonel
M3SQRD's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
2,480
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3s,R56 CooperS,F22 228iX
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: EC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
Why ?
If it happens,it will be a none ending war.
Even without it, there's still a non-ending war
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 07:42 AM   #9
IMG
M.POWER
IMG's Avatar
104
Rep
7,065
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
Even without it, there's still a non-ending war
LMAO,so true
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 08:29 AM   #10
dex37
Second Lieutenant
dex37's Avatar
2
Rep
204
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Germany

iTrader: (0)

I don't see the point. The power difference will be minimal if any. OK, the power curve would be interesting, but there shouldn't be any big difference. Apart from that I would prefer a reliable and safe tune to one which has the highest output. This is hard to judge by a few dyno runs.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 08:31 AM   #11
aussiem3
Lieutenant Colonel
aussiem3's Avatar
Australia
30
Rep
1,685
Posts

 
Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2014 BMW X5 30d  [0.00]
2007 E92 M3  [0.00]
Do not feed this troll ... he's back. He's jobless and stirring the shit again
__________________

2007 E92 6MT - Silverstone II with /// Performance Exhaust with ACM Test Pipes and BPM Sport Stage II Dev-Tune - Proper engine warm up, 12-monthly oil change, Castrol TWS 10w-60
2014 F15 X5 3.0d
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 08:38 AM   #12
MilehighM3
Colonel
MilehighM3's Avatar
21
Rep
2,184
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Colorado Springs

iTrader: (9)

So you think max power across the rpms is the best tune? Interesting...
Personally I'd sacrifice a bit here and there for a car that ran smooth as glass and had better longevity. Unless of course you didn't realize that on a dyno you're measuring power at full throttle? Since that accounts for less than 10% of the time in which the average owner drives their car, it seems pretty irrelevant to me.
Go buy a 335, slap a single on it and hit a dynojet. You'll get your number and maybe that would keep you from trolling the M3 board. Then you may have the best tune haha!
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #13
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
21
Rep
1,786
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bmw135er View Post
So you think max power across the rpms is the best tune? Interesting...
Personally I'd sacrifice a bit here and there for a car that ran smooth as glass and had better longevity. Unless of course you didn't realize that on a dyno you're measuring power at full throttle? Since that accounts for less than 10% of the time in which the average owner drives their car, it seems pretty irrelevant to me.
Go buy a 335, slap a single on it and hit a dynojet. You'll get your number and maybe that would keep you from trolling the M3 board. Then you may have the best tune haha!
I lean towards the measurable results, not the subjective results, so I would like to see the Dynojet SAE results. Just about everyone says their car runs better after a tune, regardless of who made the tune, so there are your subjective results. Besides, if you have the Dynojet SAE results, you will inevitably get the subjective results from the owners, but the converse is not necessarily true.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 09:45 AM   #14
mkPOTO
Mr. Nice Says Hello
mkPOTO's Avatar
200
Rep
15,637
Posts

 
Drives: 1999 528I
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: USA

iTrader: (23)

Garage List
here we go again... to many variables that need to be consistent to get the testing to be fair.
__________________

EVOLVE E600 BMW E92 M3

Last edited by mkPOTO; 01-22-2013 at 09:54 AM.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 11:17 AM   #15
pbonsalb
Lieutenant Colonel
21
Rep
1,786
Posts

 
Drives: 08 E90 M3, 99 E36 M3 Turbo
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Concord, NH

iTrader: (3)

You can have consistent results on a dyno. There was a recent discussion about this, and the consensus was that you want the results to be in the same format, like Dynojet SAE, you want the conditions (weather), and you want some datalogging through the OBD port.

This could all easily be done. The problem is expense. It would be expensive to buy all the tunes and to pay for the dyno time. Unless the tuners wanted to donate their tunes and a shop wanted to donate the dyno time.

Since this is unlikely to happen, I will continue to look at the dyno results since they are the most accurate measurement of actual gains available. Eight different people with eight different tunes can all say they love their tune, but that does little for me. Even if 100 people buy one tune and say they like it and 10 people buy another and say they like that one, I would remain unconvinced that the tune 100 people bought was any better than the tune 10 people bought. More popular, yes.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 12:19 PM   #16
Mike Benvo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Mike Benvo's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
4,802
Posts


 
Drives: Harrop SC M3 / E46 M3 / 7Turbo
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
Munit, stop waisting people's time with threads like this. Think before you speak. You're new here and if you searched instead of posting pointless threads you would learn a lot. I have never seen so many threads created by a member in such a short period of time. Most of them are filled will tons of misinformation and mismatched opinions.

You have any idea how many times this has been discussed in the past? Just enjoy the tune you have.
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----

Last edited by Mike Benvo; 01-22-2013 at 12:45 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 12:21 PM   #17
Mike Benvo
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
Mike Benvo's Avatar
United_States
98
Rep
4,802
Posts


 
Drives: Harrop SC M3 / E46 M3 / 7Turbo
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2008 BMW M3  [5.00]
1990 BMW 735i Turbo  [5.00]
2004 BMW M3  [0.00]
Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Benvo
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3
Do not feed this troll ... he's back. He's jobless and stirring the shit again
X10.. my god...

It's not like the highest power tune means anything anyway!

How many times have I talked about dyno queens and dialing back factory safeguards? Is that the tune you want?

Please sit back and read for a year before posting again. You'll do yourself and everyone else a favor!

+1 to what dex37 and bmw135er said
__________________

-----| Like us on Facebook | Instagram || Tuning Information | Remote Coding |-----
----Visit us at www.BPMSport.com - Emotion. Driven. | Toll Free: (888) 557-5133----

Last edited by Mike Benvo; 01-22-2013 at 12:51 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 12:29 PM   #18
happos2
Dingleberries
18
Rep
1,182
Posts

 
Drives: Gray E92 M3
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Indiana

iTrader: (3)

^^^ This!!!

Here is everything that applies!




/thread /lock

Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 02:12 PM   #19
Vic311
Banned
United_States
17
Rep
1,469
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
Do not feed this troll ... he's back. He's jobless and stirring the shit again
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 03:13 PM   #20
Munit
Banned
8
Rep
220
Posts

 
Drives: m3
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Sorry when has this actually happened? It never did end up happening when the tuners would have had to travel.


Since the home-flash devices been out, nobody has done this so where shall I see these results?

It gets talked about enough on here I believe everyone is curious
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #21
m33
Banned
m33's Avatar
United_States
50
Rep
2,697
Posts

 
Drives: E92 VT650 MCB Individual
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CT

iTrader: (5)

Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 05:03 PM   #22
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
THE TECH's Avatar
United_States
157
Rep
13,121
Posts


 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

iTrader: (45)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munit View Post
Sorry when has this actually happened? It never did end up happening when the tuners would have had to travel.


Since the home-flash devices been out, nobody has done this so where shall I see these results?

It gets talked about enough on here I believe everyone is curious
The problem as you know is finding someone who has no shop or brand affiliation and take a car, purchase all the tunes available and go to a dyno location which also has no brand affiliation and then have all the tunes run on the same day. It would be a lot of work not to mention money.

When we've posted results, we used a fully independent and well respected dyno shop that does not sell parts or has anything to gain from the results. Everyone likes Dynojets but it really doesn't matter what machine is used as people will pick out flaws and tell you why one machine is better or worse than another. The numbers game is just for bragging and we're not interested in that.

I don't convince our clients to buy our tunes or services. Our results have spoken for themselves time and time again on the forum. People come to us whether it be for the first time or the third time not because we tell them that we will give them 400hp but because we give them power coupled with driveability. We have excellent customer service and I believe that our customers will attest to that.

Lastly, with respect, it is called BPMsport. It is condescending to say benvo unless you wanna call the thread benvo vs roman vs sal. We are a legitimate business just like the other two.
__________________
Appreciate 0
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:56 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST