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[sensi09]

Originally Posted by M3PO

If they are "flow formed" that would make them better than just plain old cast wheels right? It's kinda semi-forged right?

It's old, but always thought this was a good informative post.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...37&postcount=7

Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M

It's very difficult to build a strong gravity cast wheel (that is wider than 10") without compromising the long term durability. This is the nature of CAST wheels in general, and gravity cast wheels in particular. Even if someone wanted to build a 10.5" or 11" gravity cast (or even low pressure cast) rear wheel, it would weigh 32-35 lbs. Who's going to buy that?

The porosity of these wheels will limit what size you can build. The larger you go, the more likely you are to incur structural integrity issues.

On the other hand, Forgestar uses Flow-Form casting method, which results in a much tighter grain structure, that has fewer inclusions. (metallurgical imperfections) The metal grain flows in the same direction, which improves the mechanical properties of the wheel. The strength of a flow-formed cast wheel is more uniform throughout the entire wheel surface, and thus the wheel is less likely to bend or crack upon impact with a curb or pothole. It's not as strong as a forged wheel of course, but it's the best technology available in cast wheel manufacturing.

Now that advantage also drives up the price of the wheels as a result. Aftermarket wheels that are made utilizing the flow-form casting method increases the tooling and manufacturing costs. (compared to gravity and low pressure casting methods)

By using flow-form casting, Forgestar can build a cast wheel that is very wide without the same fears that gravity and low pressure cast competitors will face. That doesn't mean they are bulletproof, but they will resist bending and cracking much better than the other two options. (assuming the same wheel design)

Also...

Regardless of which casting method is used, it will be difficult to get a lightweight cast wheel that is also very strong. That's because the strength of the cast wheels is tied very closely to the total mass used in the final product. This is also true of high-tonnage forged wheels (8000T), but the margin for error is much wider. In other words, you have greater latitude in shaving off metal without sacrificing the overall strength of the wheel.

With cast wheels, these margins are much, much smaller. As you whittle away metal (to achieve a lighter weight), you can also reduce the overall yield strength of the wheel if you cross the line. (bypassing the minimum mass threshold required for that design) It's a delicate balancing act, and you cannot go too far. If you do, it will defeat the entire point of building a stronger (more expensive to manufacture) flow-formed wheel product. You can literally create a structural weak point where none existed before. FEA stress simulations, building an actual test wheel prototype, and applying real world impact, cornering load, and fatigue durability testing (at a certified wheel testing facility), is essential to avoiding this worst case scenario. This will reveal where the boundaries are. (limits)

FYI: It's important to note, that no aftermarket wheel is immune to bending or cracking with enough impact force. (no matter how much it costs) Overall quality is not always directly tied to the price you pay. Don't make the mistake of assuming otherwise.


All that being said, I would strongly recommend the following cast wheels in the under 3k price range:

BBS (of course)
OZ Racing
ENKEI

Two companies that I'm currently on the fence with:

Forgestar
Alufelgen

Not enough solid info in my research database to recommend either of these brands yet. Contacted both a while back, but I am very disappointed with the some of the decisions made by each brand to this point. Hopefully things will improve in the very near future. They both seem to have some promise, but I have seen my fair share of promising company's go under by not making the right decisions at the right time.

Timing, preparation, applying proven marketing strategies, and solid business management skills are crucial. Customer service issues, and a poor product supply stream (to meet the demand), will hurt you in the ultra-competitive aftermarket wheel business.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by redline9001

I don't buy HRE cause there exclusive, I buy them cause they make a great product in custom figments and I can have rims that give me the prefect look for my needs.

All of the other brands that get mentioned on this board as better then HRE all make wheels on different levels including OEM for car makers and sponsor major racing and have been in business for a lot longer. The cheap wheels ans OEMing pay for the racing efforts, that gets them credibility.

I just look at this as a natural evolution for HRE and growth of their business, they are sponsor some forms of racing now and moving towards one of those top spots in more people's eyes.

Yes, but are their flow formed wheels still going to be available in a custom fitment? I am inclined to think not, hence part of the lower cost. HRE??

[redline9001]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Yes, but are their flow formed wheels still going to be available in a custom fitment? I am inclined to think not, hence part of the lower cost. HRE??

I agree I can't see custom wheels on a low end, my only hope is that as they grow they keep the custom on the high end products.

[Dave07997S]

Even at $2900 per set not a good deal. If you can live with the styling of the Forgestar wheels that would be a much better deal and with some customization available as far as the offsets and widths.

Although I think they are beautiful...

Dave

[W///]

Anymore info about what offsets are going to be offered? This certainly has my attention but there's not too much info out there right now. Just weight and price haha.

[Powerbeast]

My vote stays with the OG P40's

[bugzy]

Looks like HRE has received shipments of FF01. Need to get them on some M cars

[kaiv]

Originally Posted by bugzy

Looks like HRE has received shipments of FF01. Need to get them on some M cars

"Looks like"? Don't you work for HRE lol?

Also if HRE is receiving shipments of its own wheels, I guess that answers whether the wheels are made in house or not!

[Hai_Cheo]

you can call a monkey in a silk dress beautiful, but it's still a monkey.

Flowform, Superform, Rotiform, Cast wheels are cast wheels. Essentially what you are getting here, for 3,000. No thank you, save up and buy Forged.

[M3ANMACHINE]

Originally Posted by kaiv

"Looks like"? Don't you work for HRE lol?

Also if HRE is receiving shipments of its own wheels, I guess that answers whether the wheels are made in house or not!

Love seeing this kind of stuff go down on forums... lol. The truth comes out.

[leigh]

Originally Posted by Jesal@IND

Thats for the full set.

can you please PM me a price in gloss black. i want to use them for every day so maybe a 10.5 rear and a 9.5 front?

i want the biggest tire i can fit on the rear

[kitw]

Originally Posted by Hai_Cheo

you can call a monkey in a silk dress beautiful, but it's still a monkey.

Flowform, Superform, Rotiform, Cast wheels are cast wheels. Essentially what you are getting here, for 3,000. No thank you, save up and buy Forged.

Yeah, the stock ZCP wheels are so horrible because they aren't forged!

Everyone needs to throw away their stock wheels because obviously they are going to implode at any moment, sending careening into the center divider, spilling your half-caf double shot latte into your nether regions.

[xfirer1guy]

Originally Posted by brandons

Question: Does HRE have its own manufacturing facility or is it sub-contracted to someone else?

lol.. that's funny. HRE is world class and you ask that question? !

[slicer]

Originally Posted by kaiv

"Looks like"? Don't you work for HRE lol?

Also if HRE is receiving shipments of its own wheels, I guess that answers whether the wheels are made in house or not!

I don't think Lon works for HRE anymore.

[dreamspeed]

Originally Posted by kitw

Yeah, the stock ZCP wheels are so horrible because they aren't forged!

Everyone needs to throw away their stock wheels because obviously they are going to implode at any moment, sending careening into the center divider, spilling your half-caf double shot latte into your nether regions.

Lol, but my stock 220s are forged. Funny how when I read the ZCP vs 220 threads the ZCP guys say well it's a "special" casting process that actually makes it better than the forged 220s.

Let's be real here guys. Unless you are RACING your car on the track it's going to make basically no difference in terms of reliability/durability whether it's forged or cast as long as it's a quality wheel.

How many guys pay the extra $$$ just so they can say their wheels are FORGED or that they are so and so brand? And i'm not hating because I pay $$$ to have my wallet say LV on it when I could have bought a wallet at JCP that serves the exact same function.

Spend your money however you want but don't go over the top with your blind faith in the HYPE.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Of the brands you mentioned, I have owned BBS, Rays, OZ, and HRE, of course. The other brands make both cast as well as forged wheels and are top quality. HRE has had a huge boom in the past 6-7 years. This started with their forged monoblock line. What they do not have is the motorsports heritage of some of the others, but they are the real deal in terms of current product offerings for street use. They still have their "boutique" type of wheel, which is historically what they offered, but they now also offer much much more, and have really surpassed the others.

I say they are at the top of the wheel food chain for the following reasons:

1. forged construction
2. fully customizable fitment
3. phenomenal customer support
4. good product availability

Again, this is for street wheels and not for racing products.

Add to the list repair service (refinish but not bends on one piece wheels). HRE will refinish their wheels for a very fair price. None of the "real" wheel manufacturers offer the service and customization of HRE. I am a huge fan of HRE primarily due to their service. It helps that they are 15 minutes from my house and I love their designs. Their facility is top notch.

[Hai_Cheo]

Originally Posted by kitw

Yeah, the stock ZCP wheels are so horrible because they aren't forged!

Everyone needs to throw away their stock wheels because obviously they are going to implode at any moment, sending careening into the center divider, spilling your half-caf double shot latte into your nether regions.

actually not what I meant , AT ALL. Clearly I said that I would not pay 3,000 for CAST wheels. If that is what they are charging, i'd save up a little more and buy FORGED wheels.

learn to read before letting your stocks implode.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by brandons

What do you think of the new P40 style HRE FF01? Looks great to me.

Question: Does HRE have its own manufacturing facility or is it sub-contracted to someone else?

Looks like every other wheel out there. Too plain.

[HRE_Wheels]

We know it's kind of late, but we want to set the record straight on a few points brought up in this thread:

Originally Posted by Hai_Cheo

you can call a monkey in a silk dress beautiful, but it's still a monkey.

Flowform, Superform, Rotiform, Cast wheels are cast wheels. Essentially what you are getting here, for 3,000. No thank you, save up and buy Forged.

To put it simply, yes, you are correct - you are purchasing cast wheels that are HRE-backed.

Originally Posted by kaiv

"Looks like"? Don't you work for HRE lol?

Also if HRE is receiving shipments of its own wheels, I guess that answers whether the wheels are made in house or not!

Originally Posted by slicer

I don't think Lon works for HRE anymore.

Lon no longer works for HRE but still maintains regular contact. Our FlowForm wheels are made in Japan.

Originally Posted by Endless619

Looks like every other wheel out there. Too plain.

Sorry about that! HRE FF01 was modeled after our P40 design.

Apologies for bumping an old thread. If anyone has any questions about anything HRE-related, please do not hesitate to ask.

-HRE Wheels

[Denk]

Originally Posted by kitw

Yeah, the stock ZCP wheels are so horrible because they aren't forged!

Everyone needs to throw away their stock wheels because obviously they are going to implode at any moment, sending careening into the center divider, spilling your half-caf double shot latte into your nether regions.

N/A for 220m's...just those boat anchor brittle 359's.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by HRE_Wheels

We know it's kind of late, but we want to set the record straight on a few points brought up in this thread:


To put it simply, yes, you are correct - you are purchasing cast wheels that are HRE-backed.



Lon no longer works for HRE but still maintains regular contact. Our FlowForm wheels are made in Japan.


Sorry about that! HRE FF01 was modeled after our P40 design.

Apologies for bumping an old thread. If anyone has any questions about anything HRE-related, please do not hesitate to ask.

-HRE Wheels

Your original P40 was truly a benchmark design. I had them on my previous Audi RS4. As you know, however, that design has been copied, and copied, and copied by almost EVERY wheel manufacturer out there. As such, you guys need to come up with next benchmark groundbreaking design.

I'm sure you can do it !!!

[HRE_Wheels]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Your original P40 was truly a benchmark design. I had them on my previous Audi RS4. As you know, however, that design has been copied, and copied, and copied by almost EVERY wheel manufacturer out there. As such, you guys need to come up with next benchmark groundbreaking design.

I'm sure you can do it !!!

Oh yes! We're definitely working on a follow-up...we have big plans this summer/fall