BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-16-2013, 01:38 PM   #45
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
Templar's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
1,824
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
I think even the forum liberals are a little iffy on some of these proposals/executive actions... I haven't seen them posting very much in any of these threads.
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 01:41 PM   #46
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
MediaArtist's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask View Post
So does he.
This idea that the U.S government can never become tyrannical or turn on its own citizens being propagated by the left is frightening. It's scary, I am literally afraid that the left will manage to get a blanket ban (which btw is their ultimate goal), and we'll be defenseless against tyranny.

The 2nd amendment exists for a reason, and our forefathers knew this reason personally. German citizens of Jewish descent wished they had these rights in 1939.

I'm not some wacky, tin-foil, anarchist who thinks all government is bad, but to assume the U.S government can never turn on its own citizens is lunacy. The threat of armed citizen resistance is one of the reasons this hasn't happened in over 200 years, but now? I feel like 1776 is due for a sequel if this continues.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 01:41 PM   #47
kevinbahnz
Lieutenant
kevinbahnz's Avatar
25
Rep
519
Posts

 
Drives: 2008 335xi sedan
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Ma-NC

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I think even the forum liberals are a little iffy on some of these proposals/executive actions... I haven't seen them posting very much in any of these threads.
what does this "executive order" mean for the rest of the country. Specifically for us in NC. I know Texas and Oregon has opposed it already.
__________________
<img src=http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z164/kevinbahnz/08-23-2008030.jpg border=0 alt= />
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 01:59 PM   #48
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
Templar's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
1,824
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
This idea that the U.S government can never become tyrannical or turn on its own citizens being propagated by the left is frightening. It's scary, I am literally afraid that the left will manage to get a blanket ban (which btw is their ultimate goal), and we'll be defenseless against tyranny.

The 2nd amendment exists for a reason, and our forefathers knew this reason personally. German citizens of Jewish descent wished they had these rights in 1939.

I'm not some wacky, tin-foil, anarchist who thinks all government is bad, but to assume the U.S government can never turn on its own citizens is lunacy. The threat of armed citizen resistance is one of the reasons this hasn't happened in over 200 years, but now? I feel like 1776 is due for a sequel if this continues.
The American government turned on citizens with Japanese ancestry during WWII. Look into Executive Order 9066 signed by FDR. History usually finds a way to repeat itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinbahnz View Post
what does this "executive order" mean for the rest of the country. Specifically for us in NC. I know Texas and Oregon has opposed it already.
It all boils down to enforcement really. The President can make whatever orders he wants to, but at the end of the day, who is going to enforce an assault weapons ban for weapons that are already out there? The local police aren't designed to go door-to-door and take weapons or magazines from people. Not to mention the fact that some of them probably just won't do it because they don't agree with it. Are the feds going to do it? It will take decades to make a difference. I have heard from the Democratic NC Senator saying that she did not want to touch the 2nd Amendment because she is a fan of hunting.

The executive order is supposed to be taken as law, although it can be overturned by Congress. Unfortunately, they are usually not overturned, only two in history have been overturned. I have not heard of any intent for NC to fight any EO enacted by the POTUS, though.
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 03:03 PM   #49
e92oholic
Banned
United_States
14
Rep
854
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 MINI JCW GP
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Buffalo NY

iTrader: (6)

Join the class action law suit!

http://www.nysecond.org
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 03:04 PM   #50
Nate4641
Captain
Nate4641's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
860
Posts

 
Drives: '07 M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Africa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
__________________
2007 ///M Roadster Interlagos Blue & Dark Beige top over Light Sepang extended leather - 19in Morr VS8.2--RPI exhaust--AFE Intake--DKF Hangers--Vibra Technics Engine Mounts--Cosmos Firewall Braces--BMW Strut Brace--Tekarbon CF Engine Cover--Aero Side Skirts--F10 M5 Knob--LeatherZ Mk4 Armrest--SmartTOP Roof Controller--Zeckhausen Racing CDV--DansDecals Reflector Decals--Clutch Stop--LED Trunk Light--Stubby Antenna
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 03:04 PM   #51
KingOfJericho
Major General
KingOfJericho's Avatar
United_States
96
Rep
5,198
Posts

 
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 135i Coupe  [2.63]
When 75% of gun deaths are caused by gang violence in inner cities, it's hard to take this type of legislation seriously. How can they possibly think that this will have an impact when the overwhelming majority of the deaths are caused by guns that are already illegal?!? Guns are already nearly entirely banned in NYC, yet murders still occer, albeit largely contained within certain demographics. Also, as a % of all gun deaths in NY state last year, less than 1% of them were with a long gun (they don't specify beyond rifle/pistol). What a fucking joke. I am so sick of hearing "we have to get these semi-automatic guns off the street!" They don't seem to realize that they've been around since 1883 and that even a revolver is a semi-automatic weapon. They seem to think it's another word for a machine gun (i.e. fully auto). I'm so sick of listening to these dummies and their misinformation!
__________________
The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bimmerpost.

2010 S4 Current | 2010 BMW 135i Retired | 2006 Lotus Exige Retired
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 03:27 PM   #52
upstatedoc
Drone Expert
upstatedoc's Avatar
52
Rep
1,592
Posts

 
Drives: '09 BMW 328ix
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e92oholic View Post
Join the class action law suit!

http://www.nysecond.org
i'm in.
__________________
2014 S.S. P938 Nightmare
2014 Dodge Durango R/T //Diablosports Tuning
2009 E90 N51 /Active Autowerke Stage 2 tune/BMW Performance Exhaust/
1993 Honda Nighthawk 750
Countermeasure enthusiast.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 03:59 PM   #53
Nate4641
Captain
Nate4641's Avatar
United_States
16
Rep
860
Posts

 
Drives: '07 M Roadster
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Africa

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
When 75% of gun deaths are caused by gang violence in inner cities, it's hard to take this type of legislation seriously. How can they possibly think that this will have an impact when the overwhelming majority of the deaths are caused by guns that are already illegal?!? Guns are already nearly entirely banned in NYC, yet murders still occer, albeit largely contained within certain demographics. Also, as a % of all gun deaths in NY state last year, less than 1% of them were with a long gun (they don't specify beyond rifle/pistol). What a fucking joke. I am so sick of hearing "we have to get these semi-automatic guns off the street!" They don't seem to realize that they've been around since 1883 and that even a revolver is a semi-automatic weapon. They seem to think it's another word for a machine gun (i.e. fully auto). I'm so sick of listening to these dummies and their misinformation!
No one is concerned with gang violence right now. What they are worried about, as shown by the kids behind the POTUS, is mass shootings where people who live in lower crime areas and are law abiding are involved. Thats all they care about. They want to take anything away from law abiding citizens so that criminals and those with bad intentions have a harder time getting firearms.
__________________
2007 ///M Roadster Interlagos Blue & Dark Beige top over Light Sepang extended leather - 19in Morr VS8.2--RPI exhaust--AFE Intake--DKF Hangers--Vibra Technics Engine Mounts--Cosmos Firewall Braces--BMW Strut Brace--Tekarbon CF Engine Cover--Aero Side Skirts--F10 M5 Knob--LeatherZ Mk4 Armrest--SmartTOP Roof Controller--Zeckhausen Racing CDV--DansDecals Reflector Decals--Clutch Stop--LED Trunk Light--Stubby Antenna
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 04:53 PM   #54
MiddleAgedAl
First Lieutenant
21
Rep
326
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sitting down, facing the keyboard

iTrader: (0)

The Newtown tragedy (especially with the fact that 6 year olds were killed), has made this event fall under more focus than other. Whether you agree with gun restrictions or not, surely everyone can at least appreciate or understand that, in particular, many parents of young kids themselves will watch coverage of the tragedy, and it will hit home more emotionally than other similar events.

Not saying NRA members should be happy about it, but nobody should be really surprised that "this time is different". Support for "being seen to do something" is probably at an all time high, and acceptance of doing nothing at all is probably near an all time low. There are parents out there, who are not into guns recreationally, who are literally saying "I'd be happy to voluntarily relinquish some of my 2nd amendment rights in exchange for decreased chance that my little Timmy doesnt get shot dead in grade 1".

You can disagree, but to pretend that only insane people would have that attitude is not useful. Dont forget, for every NRA member who thinks a worried mother is nuts for focusing on the wrong type of shooting risk, there is someone who thinks an NRA member is nuts for clinging to the notion that there is a sufficiently high probability that the US government is about to tyrannically oppress the citizens, so everyone must be armed to deter against it.

In both cases, the person is fixated on a risk with an extremely low probability of happening, and they are asking the opposing group to discard their own respective concerns so they can mitigate their own fears. Saying that my fear is legit, while yours is nuts, get you nowhere. As someone with no skin in this game (I have neither children nor guns), frankly, I look at both groups and shake my head.

IMHO, the thing that tilts the deck against the NRA now (especially with global media and ever-connected world), is that people can see that all around the globe, parents are justifiably concerned for their child's safety, and are willing to do things to increase it; BUT, outside of the USA, there are not large organized groups of people in modern democracies who are concerned that their own government will oppress them, and thus need to be armed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
I'm not some wacky, tin-foil, anarchist who thinks all government is bad, but to assume the U.S government can never turn on its own citizens is lunacy. The threat of armed citizen resistance is one of the reasons this hasn't happened in over 200 years, but now? I feel like 1776 is due for a sequel if this continues.
And yet no such tyrrany has occurred in places like Australia or Canada in over 200 years either, and they have no equivalent deterrent (heavily armed populace). People notice stuff like that, and start to question the legitimacy of the risk. There are Jewish Germans who are old enough to remember what happened in 1939. Are these folks spearheading fights to allow German citizens the same gun ownership rights as Americans have? Nope. Why is that? Hell, if any place has a legitimate reason to fear government tyranny, it's those folks. Their lack of comparable fear or paranoia in an arguably riskier position does somewhat weaken the credibility of the NRA in the eyes of a lot of moderates.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:03 PM   #55
carve
Major
carve's Avatar
30
Rep
1,098
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: usa

iTrader: (0)

Austria was taken over by Hitler. Switzerland wasn't.

Any western democracy knows the US would not currently allow a tyrant to take over, and they take that security umbrella for granted. What about us? Who watches the watcher? If I were a citizen of any other western democracy, I'd be very happy the US has a heavily armed populace.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:11 PM   #56
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
MediaArtist's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post

And yet no such tyrrany has occurred in places like Australia or Canada in over 200 years either
That's an argument formed from fallacy. It assumes that because it hasn't happened in another country, that you can assume it wouldn't happen here.

There are numerous countries that have started off as democratic that eventually became tyrannical. It happened to France in the 19th century, it happened in Spain in the 20th century, it happened in Germany in the 1930s, it happened in Italy, it happened in Japan, and it happened in the Phillipines in the 80s. In fact one of Ferdinand Marcos's first orders as a dictator of the country was to command the populace to turn in all firearms to government officials within 30 days or risk DEATH as a punishment.

Why would a dictator ask its populace to disarm?

Laws have to be calibrated to solve problems, not created to sooth fears. If they want more control over who is sold guns, more mental health checks, and more strict background checks, fine. But to ban weapons and punish law abiding citizens for the actions of one deranged psychopath who was on prescription pharmaceutical drugs? That's not law making, that's fear mongering.

I for one won't shit on the Constitution because some liberal thinks it's going to garner votes in some future election. The Constitution was formed by a group of people who would find this type of knee jerk legislation tyrannical, and this document is the basis for which this country was formed. Attempting to weaken the words within, or out right erase it is an act of treason.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i

Last edited by MediaArtist; 01-16-2013 at 05:17 PM.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:14 PM   #57
KingOfJericho
Major General
KingOfJericho's Avatar
United_States
96
Rep
5,198
Posts

 
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 135i Coupe  [2.63]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate4641 View Post
No one is concerned with gang violence right now. What they are worried about, as shown by the kids behind the POTUS, is mass shootings where people who live in lower crime areas and are law abiding are involved. Thats all they care about. They want to take anything away from law abiding citizens so that criminals and those with bad intentions have a harder time getting firearms.
But taking away one particular type of gun doesn't solve the problem. A shooter's access to an AR-15 isn't the reason why so many people died, nor was it the reason he chose to shoot people. If that particular gun never existed, this would have happened with a pistol. Let's not forget, he had two of them on him as well. It takes a couple of seconds to reload a gun so the size of the magazines also doesn't matter one bit.

I grew up one town away from Newtown and my coworker's girlfriend was in the school and escaped and another coworker of mine went on a date a few weeks earlier with Vicki Soto. I'm pretty close to this tragedy, however I don't see how this legislation addresses the problem one iota.

If you don't want people to seek this type of carnage as a means to their infamy, don't give it to them! I think the media is largely responsible for this particular type of crime. If you're a nobody and you do something like this, you know full well that your name and picture will be all over the news - thus giving you EXACTLY what you're seeking... Infamy. My suggestion is to forget the shooter ever existed. Don't put their name on TV. Don't show their picture. Just let them rot in the hole of anonymity from which they were trying to climb.

Does this image not resonate with anyone?

__________________
The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bimmerpost.

2010 S4 Current | 2010 BMW 135i Retired | 2006 Lotus Exige Retired
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:35 PM   #58
MiddleAgedAl
First Lieutenant
21
Rep
326
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sitting down, facing the keyboard

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by carve View Post
Austria was taken over by Hitler. Switzerland wasn't.

Any western democracy knows the US would not currently allow a tyrant to take over, and they take that security umbrella for granted. What about us? Who watches the watcher? If I were a citizen of any other western democracy, I'd be very happy the US has a heavily armed populace.

So why dont the citizens of Austria fight vigorously to get even more gun rights then the US has? Like I said, if the risk of government tyranny was legitimate today, then those Austrians should be crapping their pants as bad as anyone right now, until everyone there gets a rifle with unlimited magazine size. Yet they are not.

Do you truly believe they are unconcerned simply because they are entirely relying on American soldiers coming to liberate them again if the shit does hit the fan ?

I'd suggest that older Austrians (or Germans, etc etc) who lived thru the last time, will still recall that liberation took years, and their parents, siblings, etc where killed during that wait, would not likely adopt such a relaxed approach if they thought such a risk was real.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:41 PM   #59
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
MediaArtist's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
So why dont the citizens of Austria fight vigorously to get even more gun rights then the US has? Like I said, if the risk of government tyranny was legitimate today, then those Austrians should be crapping their pants as bad as anyone right now, until everyone there gets a rifle with unlimited magazine size. Yet they are not.

Do you truly believe they are unconcerned simply because they are entirely relying on American soldiers coming to liberate them again if the shit does hit the fan ?

I'd suggest that older Austrians (or Germans, etc etc) who lived thru the last time, will still recall that liberation took years, and their parents, siblings, etc where killed during that wait, would not likely adopt such a relaxed approach if they thought such a risk was real.
Again, that question is formed out of fallacy.

I don't have any opinion about Austrians, or Germans about their version of the constitution or their views on gun rights. I'm talking about the U.S Constitution, the "spirit" of what the 2nd amendment represents, and why this legislation is an affront to that. It should be noted however that the Jews who would have a pro-gun stance in those countries were probably turned to ashes in camps.

What I can comment on is if the citizens of 1930s Germany, 1930s Spain, and 1980s Phillipines were armed as the citizens of the U.S are today, the dictators in those countries would have had a much harder time of committing the atrocities that they ended up inflicting upon an unarmed, and defenseless populace. That I am 100% sure of.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:54 PM   #60
MiddleAgedAl
First Lieutenant
21
Rep
326
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sitting down, facing the keyboard

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Laws have to be calibrated to solve problems, not created to sooth fears.
Yes I do agree with that, but I would argue the NRA is as guilty as any entity in behaving in a manner designed to leverage fears more than solving problems in a cold, calculating way (unless the problem they are trying to solve is maintaining the revenue stream of the gun companies who support it).
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:58 PM   #61
KingOfJericho
Major General
KingOfJericho's Avatar
United_States
96
Rep
5,198
Posts

 
Drives: Yes
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CT

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2010 135i Coupe  [2.63]
The NRA is a special interest group. They are interviewed because the media knows that their opinion will be polarizing. They can't get on TV unless they buy ad time or are put on TV by the media. It's the same reason why we still see Al Sharpton on TV. The media knows that their opinion will make for a good debate so they empower them by granting them airtime.
__________________
The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Bimmerpost.

2010 S4 Current | 2010 BMW 135i Retired | 2006 Lotus Exige Retired
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 05:59 PM   #62
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
MediaArtist's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
Yes I do agree with that, but I would argue the NRA is as guilty as any entity in behaving in a manner designed to leverage fears more than solving problems in a cold, calculating way (unless the problem they are trying to solve is maintaining the revenue stream of the gun companies who support it).
Don't focus on the NRA. They are a political lobbying group that can be used as a mouth piece like any.

Besides, why listen to the NRA when you can get the opinion of the founding fathers on the 2nd Amendment and why they included it in the Constitution of the United States in the first place.

Quote:
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them." -George Mason
Quote:
"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?" -Patrick Henry
Quote:
"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." -George Washington
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #63
MiddleAgedAl
First Lieutenant
21
Rep
326
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sitting down, facing the keyboard

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
Again, that question is formed out of fallacy.
How exactly is it a fallacy? What is false?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaArtist View Post
I don't have any opinion about Austrians, or Germans about their version of the constitution or their views on gun rights. I'm talking about the U.S Constitution, the "spirit" of what the 2nd amendment represents, and why this legislation is an affront to that. It should be noted however that the Jews who would have a pro-gun stance in those countries were probably turned to ashes in camps.

What I can comment on is if the citizens of 1930s Germany, 1930s Spain, and 1980s Phillipines were armed as the citizens of the U.S are today, the dictators in those countries would have had a much harder time of committing the atrocities that they ended up inflicting upon an unarmed, and defenseless populace. That I am 100% sure of.

Yes, the pro-gun Jews then would have been turned to ashes. But, with no such risk today, and the memory of what happened still fresh in their minds when they look at the tattoos they were given in the camps, why wouldnt the surviving Jews today (or Spanish, etc) advocate strongly for more gun ownership. I know you are talking about the US constitution, but doesnt it make you wonder at all why those groups are not as concerned about owning a gun, when they have more reason to be?

I dont know if you have the opportunity to talk to many non-Americans from around the world. If you do, you'd likely find that most of them dont feel "punished" by their gov when their ability to own guns is more tightly regulated. Their bad guys ignore the laws anyways of course, cause that's what bad guys do. And yet, despite the lower risk of encountering return fire, bad guys are still far less likely to shoot you in those places. I wonder why that is ?

I guess a lot of the pro-gun people dont share my curiosity for that at all, for some reason.... The only time I would completely ignore looking over my own fence at what others might be doing, even to just try and learn from them, is if I became convinced that I enjoyed an exclusive monopoly on common sense.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 06:04 PM   #64
Litos
Banned
United_States
58
Rep
2,900
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 Challenger RT Junk
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Houston/Pearland

iTrader: (1)

i like how the govt always picks on New York, because they're a bunch of pussies.

try doing that shit to Texas HAHAHA !!!!
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 06:11 PM   #65
MediaArtist
There is No Substitute
MediaArtist's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
1,186
Posts

 
Drives: Audi A6, 997 GT3 RS, E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Laguna Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
But, with no such risk today, and the memory of what happened still fresh in their minds when they look at the tattoos they were given in the camps, why wouldnt the surviving Jews today (or Spanish, etc) advocate strongly for more gun ownership.
Israel has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world per capita (higher than the U.S in fact). They also have the highest per capita military spending in the world. So if I asked those Jews about your "question", I think they would say you're full of shit.

As for your last point, why would I care what some foreigner thinks about the U.S Constitution? Unless they are a citizen, pay taxes, and have voting rights, I couldn't care less about what they think about our Constitution. If they want to come here and live in the country, they should respect our laws, or stay where they are.
__________________
'13 Audi A6
'07 Porsche GT3 RS
'08 BMW E90 335i
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2013, 06:19 PM   #66
Templar
Lieutenant Colonel
Templar's Avatar
United_States
40
Rep
1,824
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One of the coasts...

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl View Post
How exactly is it a fallacy? What is false?




Yes, the pro-gun Jews then would have been turned to ashes. But, with no such risk today, and the memory of what happened still fresh in their minds when they look at the tattoos they were given in the camps, why wouldnt the surviving Jews today (or Spanish, etc) advocate strongly for more gun ownership. I know you are talking about the US constitution, but doesnt it make you wonder at all why those groups are not as concerned about owning a gun, when they have more reason to be?

I dont know if you have the opportunity to talk to many non-Americans from around the world. If you do, you'd likely find that most of them dont feel "punished" by their gov when their ability to own guns is more tightly regulated. Their bad guys ignore the laws anyways of course, cause that's what bad guys do. And yet, despite the lower risk of encountering return fire, bad guys are still far less likely to shoot you in those places. I wonder why that is ?

I guess a lot of the pro-gun people dont share my curiosity for that at all, for some reason.... The only time I would completely ignore looking over my own fence at what others might be doing, even to just try and learn from them, is if I became convinced that I enjoyed an exclusive monopoly on common sense.
Have you ever lived in another country? Just curious.

Most of these countries you're speaking of don't have that many people old enough to remember having freedom with firearms or accessibility to them. So sure, asking some 20 year old German kid if he cares to own a rifle is probably going to get you a pretty apathetic response.

I'm sure if I asked my neighbors when I was stationed there for four years if they would give up their guns they'd throw a fit. They were avid hunters who used semi-auto hunting rifles for deer. But who knows, they should just be lumped in with the criminals as well.

Look up the US Air Force bus that was shot up by some lunatic living in Germany a few years ago. Wait, don't bother looking it up: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gunma...ry?id=13037467

Oh, but that stuff doesn't happen in countries with tough gun laws, huh?
__________________
'11 BMW E92 ///M3 - ZCP and DCT
'13 Toyota Tundra - 4x4 Platinum CrewMax, 5.7l iForce V8
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST