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      01-05-2013, 06:44 AM   #23
sensi09
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The M3 is a superior car all around no doubt, but must say that the 350z is a little more raw in comparison and even more fun to drive. Had a few 350Zs and when getting back in the car after not driving it for awhile, you realize how fun it is to drive.

Had a nismo 350z and much preferred it to the 370Zs that I test drove. The later model 350z only picked up a few HP, but thought it was a good deal quicker along with being smoother at high RPM compared to earlier models.

Last edited by sensi09; 01-05-2013 at 07:18 AM.
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      01-05-2013, 12:01 PM   #24
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I forgot to add a stock (except for exhaust) 350Z's time in my earlier post: 1:59 at the same track.

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      01-05-2013, 07:25 PM   #25
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I can't help with track impressions since i didn't track either of mine when I had them but here are my thoughts. My 05 with the de motor was a truck motor and tranny for sure. Same tranny found in the frontier and xterra. The car felt really good at about 80% and after that the motor was just really rough and the chassis wasn't happy at the limit. They did fix a lot of that with the 07+ with wider wheels and the hr motor, but it still felt like it wasn't happy when it was pushed. I consider the 350z an 80% car. It wouldn't be my first choice for track unless I got a great deal on one.

And I agree with the c6 opinion posted above. However the earlier model c6's have rubbery steering and I would steer away from those, although overall performance isn't diminished. Nothing quite like a car that was designed a sports car from inception rather than transforming a commuter model into a sporty car
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      01-07-2013, 06:26 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post

Like I said before if I'm buying a car specifically for the track it'd be something small and light like a miata. Adding power is easy but you can't shrink a cars proportions and you can only remove so much weight
this. if I had the garage space a track/project miata would definitely be in there.

also, how important are absolute lap times vs. relative lap times for a weekend track day junkie?
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      01-12-2013, 01:14 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by canadian stig View Post
yes, with just brake pads and fluid for safety reasons of course, and with an oil cooler for the z. I was eventually going to go with a supercharger and then it would have been bye bye M3. but the car got wrecked.
So basically the 370 barely out handled the m3 but m3 was still ~1 second faster at shannonville and Cayuga due to the extra ~80-90 HP. So do you reckon that if the 370 added power to around the same as the m3 and strip even more weight off, the 370 is hands down the faster track car?

Evo X would be substantially better than both as a track weapon modded? Evo can keep up with lambo murcielago lol

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      01-12-2013, 01:09 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
So basically the 370 barely out handled the m3 but m3 was still ~1 second faster at shannonville and Cayuga due to the extra ~80-90 HP. So do you reckon that if the 370 added power to around the same as the m3 and strip even more weight off, the 370 is hands down the faster track car?

Evo X would be substantially better than both as a track weapon modded? Evo can keep up with lambo murcielago lol
Basically yes. The Z has less weight, shorter wheelbase, lower centre of gravity, more aggressive suspension alignment, and if u get the sport package you also get bigger brakes and bigger wheels/tires than the M3. The Z does feel more comfortable in the corners, especially fast transitions and S turns. The M3 handles great too, but you just can't get over the weight and the overall softer feeling of the steering and suspension. It's always better to design a sports car from the ground up, than to get a family car and enhance its performance.

For a track car I'd imagine an e36 or e46 m3 would also be better than an e90/e92 m3.

Also, keep in mind when comparing cars the size and cost of the aftermarket. A 370z has much better aftermarket support than an E90 M3. There are more vendors to choose from, more quality products available, and parts are about 1/3 the price. With the M3, you will get raped by the vendors just because your car has a roundel, an ///M badge, and a "Made in Germany" sticker

For example, there are turbo/superchargers for the Z that can take you over 500 hp for a cost of about $6-10k. To get the same for the M, you can go with the $25k dinan stroker engine, or about $15-20k for a supercharger kit.

And yes EVOs are awesome too. I just don't like awd that much. I prefer the adrenaline rush you get from trying to modulate the throttle to accelerate out of a turn while being wary of oversteering and spinning out. With awd cars you just push the throttle and let the computers take over.
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      01-12-2013, 03:18 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian stig View Post
Basically yes. The Z has less weight, shorter wheelbase, lower centre of gravity, more aggressive suspension alignment, and if u get the sport package you also get bigger brakes and bigger wheels/tires than the M3. The Z does feel more comfortable in the corners, especially fast transitions and S turns. The M3 handles great too, but you just can't get over the weight and the overall softer feeling of the steering and suspension. It's always better to design a sports car from the ground up, than to get a family car and enhance its performance.

For a track car I'd imagine an e36 or e46 m3 would also be better than an e90/e92 m3.

Also, keep in mind when comparing cars the size and cost of the aftermarket. A 370z has much better aftermarket support than an E90 M3. There are more vendors to choose from, more quality products available, and parts are about 1/3 the price. With the M3, you will get raped by the vendors just because your car has a roundel, an ///M badge, and a "Made in Germany" sticker

For example, there are turbo/superchargers for the Z that can take you over 500 hp for a cost of about $6-10k. To get the same for the M, you can go with the $25k dinan stroker engine, or about $15-20k for a supercharger kit.

And yes EVOs are awesome too. I just don't like awd that much. I prefer the adrenaline rush you get from trying to modulate the throttle to accelerate out of a turn while being wary of oversteering and spinning out. With awd cars you just push the throttle and let the computers take over.
Lol but the evo x is still faster than m3 and 370z. Probably in GT-R, c6 z06 territory when modded properly.
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      01-12-2013, 05:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian stig
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
So basically the 370 barely out handled the m3 but m3 was still ~1 second faster at shannonville and Cayuga due to the extra ~80-90 HP. So do you reckon that if the 370 added power to around the same as the m3 and strip even more weight off, the 370 is hands down the faster track car?

Evo X would be substantially better than both as a track weapon modded? Evo can keep up with lambo murcielago lol
Basically yes. The Z has less weight, shorter wheelbase, lower centre of gravity, more aggressive suspension alignment, and if u get the sport package you also get bigger brakes and bigger wheels/tires than the M3. The Z does feel more comfortable in the corners, especially fast transitions and S turns. The M3 handles great too, but you just can't get over the weight and the overall softer feeling of the steering and suspension. It's always better to design a sports car from the ground up, than to get a family car and enhance its performance.

For a track car I'd imagine an e36 or e46 m3 would also be better than an e90/e92 m3.

Also, keep in mind when comparing cars the size and cost of the aftermarket. A 370z has much better aftermarket support than an E90 M3. There are more vendors to choose from, more quality products available, and parts are about 1/3 the price. With the M3, you will get raped by the vendors just because your car has a roundel, an ///M badge, and a "Made in Germany" sticker

For example, there are turbo/superchargers for the Z that can take you over 500 hp for a cost of about $6-10k. To get the same for the M, you can go with the $25k dinan stroker engine, or about $15-20k for a supercharger kit.

And yes EVOs are awesome too. I just don't like awd that much. I prefer the adrenaline rush you get from trying to modulate the throttle to accelerate out of a turn while being wary of oversteering and spinning out. With awd cars you just push the throttle and let the computers take over.
I've owned both a sport package equipped 370 and now a ZCP M3. While I loved my 370, to say its a better car (track or otherwise) than the M3 is laughable.

For starters the engine is extremely harsh and it's tendency to overheat is well known. The viscous LSD that the car comes with is also incredibly weak, its benefits are marginal at best and it really shows on the track. Lastly, I always found the transmission / shifter to be quite "notchy".

I have yet to have a laptime in my M3 that was longer than than my 370, but I digress. Now again, the 370 is by no means a bad car, but I'm just offering my two cents on the comparison.
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      01-12-2013, 07:33 PM   #31
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Is it more expensive to maintain the m3 that is consistently tracked or does the engine take it pretty well and no additional work is needed?
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      01-12-2013, 07:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z335is View Post
I've owned both a sport package equipped 370 and now a ZCP M3. While I loved my 370, to say its a better car (track or otherwise) than the M3 is laughable.

For starters the engine is extremely harsh and it's tendency to overheat is well known. The viscous LSD that the car comes with is also incredibly weak, its benefits are marginal at best and it really shows on the track. Lastly, I always found the transmission / shifter to be quite "notchy".

I have yet to have a laptime in my M3 that was longer than than my 370, but I digress. Now again, the 370 is by no means a bad car, but I'm just offering my two cents on the comparison.
The Z's engine harshness has already been beaten to death. Yeah, it's a bit harsh sounding, but it doesnt affect the performance one bit. If you can ignore a bit of noise, then there aren't any faults with the Vq37. VQ engines regularly win awards for being the best v6 engines on the market. In fact I'd say they're better than the bmw inline 6 in the 128i/328i too. And it doesn't have a "tendency" to overheat. All engines overheat when beaten on. A $500 oil cooler is all it takes to keep the vq happy and cool. Do you really think the s65 in the m3 wouldn't overheat and shut down after a couple of laps if the m3 didn't have a factory oil cooler? And don't forget the vq takes regular plain jane vanilla 5w30 unlike the s65 with its oh so special tws oil that you can't find anywhere other than the dealership. And the vq on my old car had minimal oil consumption, even with lots of track driving, unlike my goddamn s65 that drinks almost as much oil as it does gasoline

If you think the z's gear shift is bad, i sure hope you have the dct. Because the shifter in the 6mt m3 is just garbage. probably the worst shifter on the market right now on any performance car. The gates are long, the shifter is very rubbery and vague, and feedback is nonexistent. And the m3 gearbox isn't what you call buttery smooth either.

The VLSD was junk. But you'd be surprised to know the m3 lsd uses a "shear pump" which also uses viscous fluids and suffers from the same slow reaction time and vulnerability to heat that a vlsd does. For a serious track car, the only real way to go is a mechanical clutch lsd.
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      01-12-2013, 08:02 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by jetpilot747 View Post
Is it more expensive to maintain the m3 that is consistently tracked or does the engine take it pretty well and no additional work is needed?
I haven't had any particular problems with mine. So far the car seems reliable. Though maintentance costs are a bit more. Parts of course are more expensive with the m3 than the 370z, for no particular reason other than they have a "bmw" logo on one side and a "///M" logo on the other. brakes and tires do wear out a bit faster on the m3 vs the z due to the greater weight. and front tires really wear out a lot on the outer edge due to the crappy suspension alignment and low camber. Of course, also expect to regularly replenish lots of expensive powersteering fluid, because the brilliant ///M engineers decided to drill an enormous vent hole in the reservoir cap and everytime you take a turn a bit too fast, you splash this expensive oil all over the engine bay
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      01-12-2013, 08:12 PM   #34
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Lol but the evo x is still faster than m3 and 370z. Probably in GT-R, c6 z06 territory when modded properly.
Yeah I know. A friend of mine has one and is hoping to go to the track for the first time ever this summer. I'll be his coach. Lol. Where do you go to the track? I see you're also in Toronto.
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      01-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #35
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Yeah I know. A friend of mine has one and is hoping to go to the track for the first time ever this summer. I'll be his coach. Lol. Where do you go to the track? I see you're also in Toronto.
Need a track car first lol are you from downtown or uptown?
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      01-12-2013, 08:47 PM   #36
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uptown. markham area
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      01-12-2013, 09:14 PM   #37
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I'd skip the 370z Altogether. For the money you can buy 2 s2ks and dial them in for the track. Or better yet, get an s2 and turbo it (Ptuning for instance has a great, reliable track set up) and prep it for racing and still have money in your pocket. 2800 lbs not even stripped and 400-450 rwhp with a kw club sport set up will dust a c5 vette.
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      01-12-2013, 09:37 PM   #38
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uptown. markham area
Same lol wanna take me for a spin in the m3 when u go race? :P
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      01-13-2013, 02:18 AM   #39
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C5 z06 gets my vote. No modding, just pads, fluid, align and enjoy....
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      01-13-2013, 02:48 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian stig View Post
And yes EVOs are awesome too. I just don't like awd that much. I prefer the adrenaline rush you get from trying to modulate the throttle to accelerate out of a turn while being wary of oversteering and spinning out. With awd cars you just push the throttle and let the computers take over.
You'd be very surprised. The Evo X with the S-AYC and with traction control/stability completely disabled acts like a RWD car. You need to modulate the throttle or else you will go sideways and can spin out very easily. It still takes a lot of skill to drive at the limit.
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      01-13-2013, 03:00 AM   #41
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ANY motor can overheat on a track.You don't think the S65 motor would also overheat and shut down if the M3 didn't come equipped with an oil cooler? The only mistake Nissan made was not fitting the 370z with an engine oil cooler, and that's a mistake that can be remedied easily with an aftermarket cooler for less than $500.

As for road noise, he's interested in a race car, not a boulevard cruiser. As for the whole part about having to yell for your passenger to hear you, give your head a shake and stop being so full of shit. Yes, there is a bit more road noise. Surprise surprise, it's a SPORTS CAR! Sports cars are supposed to be noisy. but it's hardly the interior of an f16 fighter jet. I had no problem whatsoever talking to my passengers without yelling or hearing the music of the sound system. 1980's Pathfiner my @$$. But hey, if you don't like noise, then perhaps you would prefer to drive one of these instead.
Sure, Nissan conveniently decided not to include an oil cooler because they "forgot" and figured people don't need it because they don't drive their sports cars hard... Really?

Yes, sports cars make road noise... but it is pretty excessive. It is like sitting in a race car with no interior. That is what the 370Z sounds like on the highway. I went on a test drive with a salesperson in the 370Z. I was yelling at him saying, "Is there any way this can be quieter?" He said "What did you say?" I yelled it louder. He looked at me and said, "You like music? Let's listen to music." IF the 370Z was a hardcore race car, I can understand the noise. An Exige, a Ariel Atom, even a Ferrari, sure, it can be loud and unrefined. I can understand that. The 370Z is a soft car, soft steering, soft suspension, Bose audio system, soft touch plastics and leather interior - more a GT than a hardcore sports car. Nissan majorly failed in that dept. Go on the 370Z forums and read about guys trying to make their car more livable day to day. Another Nissan failure.

I love Nissan, I have owned quite a few Nissan sports cars from the past. And I have tracked every car I have ever owned in the past 15 years... But the 370z, that is a POS. I am sorry but even as a JDM fanboy, I can not accept all the compromises and half-assed engineering that went into that car.
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      01-13-2013, 09:05 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Sure, Nissan conveniently decided not to include an oil cooler because they "forgot" and figured people don't need it because they don't drive their sports cars hard... Really?

Yes, sports cars make road noise... but it is pretty excessive. It is like sitting in a race car with no interior. That is what the 370Z sounds like on the highway. I went on a test drive with a salesperson in the 370Z. I was yelling at him saying, "Is there any way this can be quieter?" He said "What did you say?" I yelled it louder. He looked at me and said, "You like music? Let's listen to music." IF the 370Z was a hardcore race car, I can understand the noise. An Exige, a Ariel Atom, even a Ferrari, sure, it can be loud and unrefined. I can understand that. The 370Z is a soft car, soft steering, soft suspension, Bose audio system, soft touch plastics and leather interior - more a GT than a hardcore sports car. Nissan majorly failed in that dept. Go on the 370Z forums and read about guys trying to make their car more livable day to day. Another Nissan failure.

I love Nissan, I have owned quite a few Nissan sports cars from the past. And I have tracked every car I have ever owned in the past 15 years... But the 370z, that is a POS. I am sorry but even as a JDM fanboy, I can not accept all the compromises and half-assed engineering that went into that car.
Um, no. They didn't include an oil cooler for cost containment. Though if they overcharged for their cars like a certain German manufacturer we're all fond of they'd have included a heck of a lot more than just an oil cooler in the car. And FYI, newer models do have an oil to water cooler built into the radiator, so they don't overheat as easily. And don't forget, the 335i also tended to overheat a lot in older models that didn't have an oil cooler. So even the almighty BMW can have a hiccup every now and then.

And you really seem to be embellishing the truth about the road noise issue. Yes it's noisy, just like ANY sports car. Guess what? I've been in s2000 and vette z06 and civic si on the highway and they are even more noisy than a 370z. I've owned a z for over 2 years and put 45000 km on it in between city, highway, and track driving. I hardly ever had to 'yell' at a passenger for him to hear me.

My words of wisdom for the day: Next time you're on the highway and feel you need to "yell" for your passenger to hear you, try putting the windows up. Something to do with blocking wind noise at high speeds.
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      01-13-2013, 04:49 PM   #43
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Used Z4M > 370Z, especially for track purposes. The engine is so much better than paper can indicate. Decent availability of aftermarket suspension parts.
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      01-14-2013, 01:04 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by canadian stig View Post

My words of wisdom for the day: Next time you're on the highway and feel you need to "yell" for your passenger to hear you, try putting the windows up. Something to do with blocking wind noise at high speeds.
The windows were very much sealed, thank you. Just to make sure I wasn't imagining this, I went to a different dealer and drove another 370Z which drove exactly the same. 2 out of 2 cars, no way it can be a fluke car characteristic.

I jumped back into my Evo and it felt like I was driving a Rolls Royce after experiencing the noise in the 370Z. The Evo is a much more hardcore car. Recaro seats, less sound deadening, hard cheap interior plastics, stiff suspension, super sensitive steering and much faster on track. Yet WAY quieter and more refined than the 370Z. OH, and no overheating driving in 120 degree desert heat lapping 20 minute track sessions all day.

Nissan can do better.
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