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      01-12-2013, 11:46 AM   #1
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Why choose a manual when car was not designed for it?

I don't want to get into a debate over which tranny is "better" in terms of fun, feel etc etc but rather let me give you an example of how the M division really approached this last generation of M cars starting with the e60 m5 and m6 prior generation with the s85 v10 revving to 8250. They did not even offer the car nor test the car with a manual gearbox. That says A LOT from a compny who actually still puts manuals in virtually all of their regular series cars. If anyone has seen interviews with the M people over this, the engine simply was a terrible fit for a manual box in terms of maximizing its performance and enjoyability.

The 7 speed SMG or now DCT was used because it allowed a much closer ratio tranny that allowed the engine to stay in its quite narrow power band in the high revs as we all know at revs below 5500 there is not much to write home about. They finally stuck a manual on just for the US because we complained but in the end it was a horrible fit in terms of form vs function of the intended purpose of the car.

The new M5 is actually a car that goes well with a manual and a DCt is not nearly as beneficial from the aspect of needing to keep the engine in its limited power band since the powerband is much broader.

So back to the m3, if you have a top engineering company like M, designs a 8400 rpm v8 designed to operate above 6k rpms for extracting power, why would you not want to choose the transmission that it was designed with and designed to enable you to stay in that power band since that is where the power is.

A manual means you cannot stay in the powerband as easily and with slightly larger gaps between gears, especially after 3rd, you are dropping well out of the power band compared to the dct which means you are using hundreds of RPMs to simply catch back up to get into the powerband where as the DCt will shift and keep you right in the band.

I understand the history and the "feeling" but if you choose a car designed with a certain tranny and technology-why not embrace the technology of this car or otherwise choose a different car that was designed with a manual tranny in mind-even the new m5 or a mustang or a regular 335i n54 motor etc.
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      01-12-2013, 11:51 AM   #2
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      01-12-2013, 11:52 AM   #3
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Drop out of the power band? What is this vtec?
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      01-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #4
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Some stupid statements from OP...
BMW doesn't test its manual m cars anymore...??? Of course they test every single car and component. Implying BMW didn't test of their launch cars in 07/08 is silly.
DCT is less beneficial on the F10 M5?? No. How about turbo lag. It's actually more beneficial on the new cars to maintain boost pressure between shifts.
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      01-12-2013, 11:57 AM   #5
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Are you a troll or is this a real question? For one, the E9X M3 was first available in 6MT and then the DCT came to market. The DCT is great, no doubt, and the 6MT is a proper weighted shift knob away from being a solid shifter.

I'm not going to waste my time getting into the mechanicals of it, but the car was not made for one or the other. I couldn't care less if the DCT is x seconds faster, or gear a bit closer because of the extra top gear. The 6MT suits this car just fine, and I have an absolute blast driving it every day.

There's nothing more to it.
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      01-12-2013, 12:01 PM   #6
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I don't know about you guys but I just hope the new M3s will come with a true automatic gearbox. You know, the ones in the AMGs.
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      01-12-2013, 12:05 PM   #7
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Because automatics suck... Like this thread
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      01-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #8
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Yes and the Porches GT3 was also designed with a auto/tip tranny in mind!

Oh and to anwser the question, because manuals are fun!
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      01-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ottoblotto View Post
Skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
^^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Drop out of the power band? What is this vtec?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smmmurf View Post
Some stupid statements from OP...
BMW doesn't test its manual m cars anymore...??? Of course they test every single car and component. Implying BMW didn't test of their launch cars in 07/08 is silly.
DCT is less beneficial on the F10 M5?? No. How about turbo lag. It's actually more beneficial on the new cars to maintain boost pressure between shifts.
word
Quote:
Originally Posted by piloto View Post
Are you a troll or is this a real question? For one, the E9X M3 was first available in 6MT and then the DCT came to market. The DCT is great, no doubt, and the 6MT is a proper weighted shift knob away from being a solid shifter.
I'm not going to waste my time getting into the mechanicals of it, but the car was not made for one or the other. I couldn't care less if the DCT is x seconds faster, or gear a bit closer because of the extra top gear. The 6MT suits this car just fine, and I have an absolute blast driving it every day.

There's nothing more to it.
agreed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Baron View Post
I don't know about you guys but I just hope the new M3s will come with a true automatic gearbox. You know, the ones in the AMGs.
^^^ +1
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Originally Posted by FrankThomas View Post
Because automatics suck... Like this thread
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      01-12-2013, 12:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Baron View Post
I don't know about you guys but I just hope the new M3s will come with a true automatic gearbox. You know, the ones in the AMGs.
No man, straight torque convertor and that's it.
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      01-12-2013, 12:17 PM   #11
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      01-12-2013, 12:17 PM   #12
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make a spin with DCT on a small road, oo u cant
go into drift in 0.5 sec with DCT, u cant
DCT is like cutting your hand, to be faster on straight, but u cant do much things with one hand do u?
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      01-12-2013, 12:20 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
Drop out of the power band? What is this vtec?
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      01-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #14
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IIRC, 6MT came first, DCT was released after the release of the M3. Can't see how one was preferred over the other aside from double clutches being vogue all over Europe and Americans doing other things behind the wheel like sipping Starbucks, dicking with their phones and jerkin the gherk.
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      01-12-2013, 12:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bel-Tirid
make a spin with DCT on a small road, oo u cant
go into drift in 0.5 sec with DCT, u cant
DCT is like cutting your hand, to be faster on straight, but u cant do much things with one hand do u?
This isn't technically true.

I see what you're trying to say but let's not bash on the capabilities of dct.
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      01-12-2013, 01:45 PM   #16
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I would think a high revving engine would be ideal for a manual trans...
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      01-12-2013, 01:55 PM   #17
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OP, when you don't have a clue about something, don't even open your mouth to talk about it.

DCT is like giving your wife to a porn star to f@&$ because he can do it better than you. Lol
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      01-12-2013, 02:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bel-Tirid View Post
make a spin with DCT on a small road, oo u cant
go into drift in 0.5 sec with DCT, u cant
DCT is like cutting your hand, to be faster on straight, but u cant do much things with one hand do u?
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      01-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince_of_Persia View Post
OP, when you don't have a clue about something, don't even open your mouth to talk about it.

DCT is like giving your wife to a porn star to f@&$ because he can do it better than you. Lol
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      01-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #20
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Why choose a manual when car was not designed for it?

You know your threads get more lame with each passing minute

What transmission do you think they have been putting in M3 since time and memorial..

GTFO here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Munit View Post
I don't want to get into a debate over which tranny is "better" in terms of fun, feel etc etc but rather let me give you an example of how the M division really approached this last generation of M cars starting with the e60 m5 and m6 prior generation with the s85 v10 revving to 8250. They did not even offer the car nor test the car with a manual gearbox. That says A LOT from a compny who actually still puts manuals in virtually all of their regular series cars. If anyone has seen interviews with the M people over this, the engine simply was a terrible fit for a manual box in terms of maximizing its performance and enjoyability.

The 7 speed SMG or now DCT was used because it allowed a much closer ratio tranny that allowed the engine to stay in its quite narrow power band in the high revs as we all know at revs below 5500 there is not much to write home about. They finally stuck a manual on just for the US because we complained but in the end it was a horrible fit in terms of form vs function of the intended purpose of the car.

The new M5 is actually a car that goes well with a manual and a DCt is not nearly as beneficial from the aspect of needing to keep the engine in its limited power band since the powerband is much broader.

So back to the m3, if you have a top engineering company like M, designs a 8400 rpm v8 designed to operate above 6k rpms for extracting power, why would you not want to choose the transmission that it was designed with and designed to enable you to stay in that power band since that is where the power is.

A manual means you cannot stay in the powerband as easily and with slightly larger gaps between gears, especially after 3rd, you are dropping well out of the power band compared to the dct which means you are using hundreds of RPMs to simply catch back up to get into the powerband where as the DCt will shift and keep you right in the band.

I understand the history and the "feeling" but if you choose a car designed with a certain tranny and technology-why not embrace the technology of this car or otherwise choose a different car that was designed with a manual tranny in mind-even the new m5 or a mustang or a regular 335i n54 motor etc.

Last edited by Vic311; 01-12-2013 at 03:07 PM.
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      01-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #21
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I have to throw in...I just must.

MT is BETTER! hahahahhahHAHAhahaha BRING IT OP, BRING IT>>>>>
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      01-12-2013, 02:42 PM   #22
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they both have their merits. i would be faster at the track in a DCT i have no doubt, but also would be easier which im not sure is the point. if it was i could go get a gtr and put it on autopilot!
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